Baptism of the Holy Spirit

[stonesoffire]

You can find a bit of a study Here on that subject...

I just read the study. It's great imo. Did you write this?

 

[stonesoffire]

Quoting this passage without comment does not help anyone to understand what happened and why it happened. For whatever reason, there are A FEW instances in the Acts of the Apostles recorded that when Gentiles believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, they spoke in tongues. Those converted in the household of Cornelius is another example. It would appear that this manifestation was for the sake of the Jews who needed to learn that God was also saving Gentiles, and the proof that the gift of the Holy Spirit was given to them was their ability to speak in GENUINE FOREIGN LANGUAGES supernaturally. Bible tongues are invariably languages, not babbling.

But as we can see in the rest of the book of Acts, this was not the norm for every sinner who got saved. The thousands of Jews who were saved on the day of Pentecost, and shortly thereafter, did NOT speak in tongues after they received the Holy Spirit. Neither did the Ethiopian eunuch nor the Philippian keeper of the prison, nor many others recorded in Acts.

So anyone who teaches that the evidence of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is that the person MUST speak in tongues is not really teaching the truth.

I would think that one of the Voice gifts would manifest. I moved in the Word of wisdom or knowledge before the full release of my language.

We will say something. And I've said before that worship filled my being. I never experienced this before He baptized me. Just conversion. Both are experiences.

 

[FlyingDove]

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John the baptist made clear that Christ would baptise with the Holy Spirit)

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptise with/in the Holy Spirit. Salvation happens at the moment Christ baptizes & seals us with his indewlling Holy Spirit)

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a SPIRITUAL circumcison/covenant done without hands)

 

[Speak2Me]

To be clear Tongues was a old English translation of a word that meant in Greek : Language.
Specifically, a language native to the speaker. So in Acts 2, when it says " other Tongues " its saying God is communicating with all languages so all people no matter where they are from, hear and understand the message in their own specific innate language. To all At the same time, with one speakers. No babel .

Tongues does Not mean a language of angels, Nor a prayer language. Dont let that confusing spread .

That is bad doctrines people weave from ignorance of what they're reading .

Languages of angels was mentioned by Paul.

You're not one of those people that believes Heaven's language is ENGLISH, are you?

 

[OtherWay210]

Speak2Me can you follow what you read ? Or do you just add things by mistake ?
maybe got too much cobwebs gathering in the attic at your old age.

The phrase "" tongues of men and of angels "" is meant to convey being more then capable with language as a meant to effectively communicate .

. Paul did not say its a specific language.

 

[Speak2Me]

Speak2Me can you follow what you read ? Or do you just add things by mistake ?
maybe got too much cobwebs gathering in the attic at your old age.

The phrase "" tongues of men and of angels "" is meant to convey being more then capable with language as a meant to effectively communicate .

. Paul did not say its a specific language.

You can't follow what I'm saying because yer going the 'other way'.

 

[notuptome]

Languages of angels was mentioned by Paul.

You're not one of those people that believes Heaven's language is ENGLISH, are you?

Mentioned in context as hyperbole. Context is essential to arriving at a correct interpretation of the passage. Context prevents improper proof texting.

I will be speaking to Christ not angels. The Holy Spirit speaks to Christians and teaches the word of God to us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[wattie]

Alright...

So we have a lot of discussion about tongues going on here.. that is what happened in Acts 2.

But what do you see in Acts 2?

* These are already saved people.
* They are gathered as an assembly... they are not individuals alone
* They were a local New Testament church before the Holy Spirit empowered their church.. that had Jesus as the founder before Penteost

So.. further examples of the Holy Spirit empowering .. are like this.. of assemblies of already saved believers.. being empowered.

Where are the examples of individuals alone being empowered this way? Baptised with the Holy Spirit .. for the individual alone?

 

[Grandpa]

Alright...

So we have a lot of discussion about tongues going on here.. that is what happened in Acts 2.

But what do you see in Acts 2?

* These are already saved people.
* They are gathered as an assembly... they are not individuals alone
* They were a local New Testament church before the Holy Spirit empowered their church.. that had Jesus as the founder before Penteost

So.. further examples of the Holy Spirit empowering .. are like this.. of assemblies of already saved believers.. being empowered.

Where are the examples of individuals alone being empowered this way? Baptised with the Holy Spirit .. for the individual alone?

Tongues are a gift of the Holy Spirit. Probably the most common gift given.

But not the only gift given. I had to explain this to my wife when she was disappointed that she thought she had not received the Holy Spirit because she did not speak in tongues. (As taught by the church we were attending...)

The Holy Spirit is the only reason we understand anything about the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 14:26 [FONT=&quot]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[/FONT]John 16:13-14
[FONT=&quot]13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


[/FONT]

 

[OtherWay210]

To:wattie
Theres no indication any of these people believe in Christ in Acts two,the address from Peter was teaching them about Christ, and a call to repent and believe . Acts 2.

Im unsure why you concluded these are Christians ? Can you Document this statement ??


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[OtherWay210]

Something to keep in mind ; a reason that Specific miracle was used .
The Sign in Acts 2 the Holy Spirit speaking through the apostles .

Consider Pauls' statement:

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:
but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not,
but for them which believe.

its like seeing is believing, they were able to produce fruit, with Gods presence of the Holy Spirit , with that sign. The non believers could immediately recognize the miracle, and would ideally listen as Acts 2 shows us .

( the majority of 1 Corinthians 14 dose not speaking of Acts 2, except verse 22 )

 

[OtherWay210]

Unless you're referring to the Apostles when you said " These are already saved people " ?

 

[OtherWay210]

Not many know what tongues even is . That question needs to be studied ,
before one can go further and have things make sense.
We cant define speaking in tongues, based off what people claim . What does the bible say about it ? The Bible is all the matters . Not mans "words" .

 

[wattie]

To:wattie
Theres no indication any of these people believe in Christ in Acts two,the address from Peter was teaching them about Christ, and a call to repent and believe . Acts 2.

Im unsure why you concluded these are Christians ? Can you Document this statement ??


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus and His disciples were the first church. They were there first at Pentecost.

They were an assembly of believers before Pentecost.


Peter indeed spoke to others to repent but there was the already saved assembly there first

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus and His disciples were the first church. They were there first at Pentecost.

They were an assembly of believers before Pentecost.


Peter indeed spoke to others to repent but there was the already saved assembly there first

The Church could not come into existence until the Holy Spirit was poured down from Heaven, and that could only happen after the Lord Jesus Christ had ascended to Heaven and sent down (with the Father) the Holy Spirit. So there was no "church" on earth until Christ's resurrection and ascension, and it was only after His resurrection that the Lord gave the apostles the Holy Spirit, and it was only at Pentecost that they received the empowerment of the Holy Spirit in order to fulfil their ministries.

 

[wattie]

The Church could not come into existence until the Holy Spirit was poured down from Heaven, and that could only happen after the Lord Jesus Christ had ascended to Heaven and sent down (with the Father) the Holy Spirit. So there was no "church" on earth until Christ's resurrection and ascension, and it was only after His resurrection that the Lord gave the apostles the Holy Spirit, and it was only at Pentecost that they received the empowerment of the Holy Spirit in order to fulfil their ministries.

Well... the Church.. I take it you mean every believer..
The entity of every believer.. I would call the Family of God .

That has been added to since Adam

 

[FlyingDove]

This term.. has been taken to mean a whole lot of things but what is it really?

Penny for your thoughts

This Holy Spirit baptism is our only means of salvation

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John the Baptist say's Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Ghost)

Christ & Christ alone can baptize with the Holy Ghost. This is a spititual covenantal circumcision done without water or hands Col 2:11.

Deut 30:6 (A) The LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart

John's repeated stated purpose: PREPARE the way of the Lord: Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mk 1:2, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4.

John's BAPTISM of REPENTANCE: Change your mind & direction towards God. Purify/wash/clean yourself-up outside & inside in PREPARATION of meeting your long time promised Messiah. Who will remiss/forgive/pardon your sins.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to preach, the BAPTISM of REPENTANCE. That they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Who would remitt/forgive/pardon their sins.)

Water baptism doesn't remiss sin, repentance doesn't remiss sin, obedience doesn't remiss sin, sabbath observance doesn't remiss sin, tithing doesn't remiss sin.

Faith & Faith alone, placed in the finished sin redemptive work & resurrection of Christ. Is the only way anyone's sins are remissed/pardoned! All the credit, all the glory, all the praise belongs to our great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ!

John's water baptism didn't remove sin. The Jew had a sacrificial system that delt with/covered (NOT REMOVED or FORGAVE SIN) Once a year the High Priest made sacrifices for the whole nation. Anyone could bring a personal (5 different types) sin sacrifice to the Temple. Again, these sacrifices only covered sin & only for 1 yr.

John the Baptist proclaimed:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
(NOTE: Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKES AWAY the sin of the world)

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(NOTE: John say's Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Ghost)

Additional backgroud:
ABLUTION - JewishEncyclopedia.com jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/338-ablution
There are three kinds of Ablution recognized in Biblical and rabbinical law: (1) Washing of the hands, (2) washing of the hands and feet, and (3) immersion of the whole body in water.

Jacob receives PREPATATION instructions before meeting the Lord at the alter
Gen 35:
1 And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God,
2 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments:
(NOTE: Jacob was to PREPARE/wash-up & change his cloths before meeting the Lord at the alter)

Levitical law required PREPATATION purifying/washing on many occasions.

The Lord gives Moses PREPATATION instructions before meeting the Lord on the morrow.
Ex 19:
9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.
(NOTE: The Lord tells Moses I will appear is a thick cloud & speak to the people)
10 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,
(NOTE: In preparation of meeting me, have the people clean & ready to meet me)
14 And Moses went down from the mount unto the people, and sanctified the people; and they washed their clothes.
(NOTE: Moses carries out the Lords PREPATATION instructions)