Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

.....but.

it's the 'but' that you all add that negates what you claim about all believers having a change of life.

If all of you really believed that you had to have a changed life or else you're not saved you would not be resisting what I'm saying. I'm just saying what your own once saved always saved doctrine says. It says you are either enduring in faithful works to the very end or you are not born again.

I don't see the scripture about enduring which isn't the point anyway, in the same way you do. The question is when persecution comes, which it comes to all in some manner, will you still love? Will you blame God? Will you love your enemies and pray for them? This is enduring. And persecution is the topic.

 

[BillG]

Hope in you that can not be seen in how you live shows you do not possess the hope you say you do. If Lucy was being serious when she said she has no changed life then she is not saved. I'm not going to be PC to her and lead her into deception about the truth about herself. She can only be saved if someone tells her the truth, though it seems many think they are doing Christ a service by comforting her in her unsaved status, that is if what she said is really true and she's not just trolling this thread.

You say
Lucy say.

No I mean I really don't have any works. I've been water baptised, that's not a work is it?

I can't say I've ever done any great deed. I'm rotten & selfish. I mean it. He is like gold inside me. Without The Lord, (if I don't keep communicating with him) If I get caught up in the hamster-wheel of life and forget to pray and read The Word for a long time, it feels like I start to revert back to my worthless self. I have no hope in me at all. I really was just counting on his mercy to allow me in the sheep pen with the good ones.

You really should have read her post and thought about it before you responded.

I am going to assume that Lucy was serious with her post, if she is not I do know of people who fit this scenario.

Firstly she never said she has no changed life.
Secondly she acknowledges that at times she can revert back to her worthless self.
Thirdly she has no hope in herself at all, her only hope is in Jesus.
Fourthly she acknowledges her inner self.

Now here's the problem, that Lucy struggles with and so many struggle with given the following.

WORKS BASED THEOLOGY, YOU BETTER BE DOING IN ORDER TO PROVE TO GOD (Not man) BUT GOD IN ORDER TO BE SAVED.
And if your not doing when God comes back your toast.

Lucy says "I really don't have any works"
Then Lucy says "I can't say I've ever done and great deed"

Now it seems to me that Lucy is equating works with great deeds.
Yet Lucy does not realise what a great deed in Christ is.

So now Lucy has lost the focus.
Her focus is now doing rather than being.
Now this leads to Lucy feeling more rotten & selfish because she can't work hard enough because she knows she is not perfect, but she has to be in order to be accepted by God.

Then we find Lucy worrying that if on one day or over a few days or for a period that she is struggling in her walk, Jesus came back then she is toast.

Poor old Lucy can't get off that hamster wheel, this hamster wheel is actually her prison.

Now if Lucy is released from the hamster wheel what does she do, what is she?

She is free, yippee she is free.
Then this little hamster is free to be.

What is the truth, who is the truth

John 8:32
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

If Lucy truly knew who she is in Jesus then Lucy would be free.
And as a result her focus would be on Jesus and not herself, yet Lucy would seek to be like more like Jesus every day because she knows that she loves him and just wants to be like and not appease him and hope her works save her.

Whilst you are not being PC, maybe try a loving approach.
Maybe you could have asked her questions as to what she posted and why.

Just a simple question like "Why do you think you have no works, what are works to you?
Then maybe in the response guy you have actually bought some reassurance that what she did not consider a work was indeed a work.

Rather than assuming that such a person is not saved and therefore trolling respond to such posts in a different way.
Rather than assuming that people who say works do not save, they are saying its an excuse to sin.
Furthermore listen to what they say when they tell you "Grace is not an excuse to sin"
You seem to ignore that when they tell you that.

You, me or anyone else has no right to judge someone else as being unsaved, without getting too know their true heart.

Only Jesus had that right.

 

[Ralph-]

I don't see the scripture about enduring which isn't the point anyway, in the same way you do. The question is when persecution comes, which it comes to all in some manner, will you still love? Will you blame God? Will you love your enemies and pray for them? This is enduring. And persecution is the topic.

We have Christians who can't even bring themselves to obey a simple command to be water baptized and they argue with you about whether you really have to do it. And they think they're going to obey the command to endure to the end when persecution comes?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You say
Lucy say.



You really should have read her post and thought about it before you responded.

I am going to assume that Lucy was serious with her post, if she is not I do know of people who fit this scenario.

Firstly she never said she has no changed life.
Secondly she acknowledges that at times she can revert back to her worthless self.
Thirdly she has no hope in herself at all, her only hope is in Jesus.
Fourthly she acknowledges her inner self.

Now here's the problem, that Lucy struggles with and so many struggle with given the following.

WORKS BASED THEOLOGY, YOU BETTER BE DOING IN ORDER TO PROVE TO GOD (Not man) BUT GOD IN ORDER TO BE SAVED.
And if your not doing when God comes back your toast.

Lucy says "I really don't have any works"
Then Lucy says "I can't say I've ever done and great deed"

Now it seems to me that Lucy is equating works with great deeds.
Yet Lucy does not realise what a great deed in Christ is.

So now Lucy has lost the focus.
Her focus is now doing rather than being.
Now this leads to Lucy feeling more rotten & selfish because she can't work hard enough because she knows she is not perfect, but she has to be in order to be accepted by God.

Then we find Lucy worrying that if on one day or over a few days or for a period that she is struggling in her walk, Jesus came back then she is toast.

Poor old Lucy can't get off that hamster wheel, this hamster wheel is actually her prison.

Now if Lucy is released from the hamster wheel what does she do, what is she?

She is free, yippee she is free.
Then this little hamster is free to be.

What is the truth, who is the truth

John 8:32
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

If Lucy truly knew who she is in Jesus then Lucy would be free.
And as a result her focus would be on Jesus and not herself, yet Lucy would seek to be like more like Jesus every day because she knows that she loves him and just wants to be like and not appease him and hope her works save her.

Whilst you are not being PC, maybe try a loving approach.
Maybe you could have asked her questions as to what she posted and why.

Just a simple question like "Why do you think you have no works, what are works to you?
Then maybe in the response guy you have actually bought some reassurance that what she did not consider a work was indeed a work.

Rather than assuming that such a person is not saved and therefore trolling respond to such posts in a different way.
Rather than assuming that people who say works do not save, they are saying its an excuse to sin.
Furthermore listen to what they say when they tell you "Grace is not an excuse to sin"
You seem to ignore that when they tell you that.

You, me or anyone else has no right to judge someone else as being unsaved, without getting too know their true heart.

Only Jesus had that right.

Wow, there he goes playing God.

Just wow.

 

[stonesoffire]

I'll keep posting whether you respond to me or not. This is a public forum. When you say something I can quote to make a point I will do that.

And this is why EG. Some will believe this for the natural man is religious. We will worship something, even our own works. This needs addressed.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Getting dunked in water is not what saves you.. Grace, faith and belief are what saves you. Water baptism is merely done to fulfill a command, not because it saves us.

We have Christians who can't even bring themselves to obey a simple command to be water baptized and they argue with you about whether you really have to do it. And they think they're going to obey the command to endure to the end when persecution comes?

 

[stonesoffire]

We have Christians who can't even bring themselves to obey a simple command to be water baptized and they argue with you about whether you really have to do it. And they think they're going to obey the command to endure to the end when persecution comes?

You forget that God views His own through the finished work of His Son. Which makes me wonder why you do not keep His Word? He says plainly we will walk by His promises. He finishes what He starts. Here or there, it will be finished.

 

[stonesoffire]

We have Christians who can't even bring themselves to obey a simple command to be water baptized and they argue with you about whether you really have to do it. And they think they're going to obey the command to endure to the end when persecution comes?

Water baptism is something that some want to do for they see it in the Word. Some because of a teaching in their fellowship. Some view it as a command. Then others see beyond men's ways to His. Blood alone is our salvation. His blood lives on in heaven, and it's voice is proclaimed through our testimony.

 

[stonesoffire]

Who makes up all these abbreviations? Lol what is being pc?

 

[BillG]

We have Christians who can't even bring themselves to obey a simple command to be water baptized and they argue with you about whether you really have to do it. And they think they're going to obey the command to endure to the end when persecution comes?

You ever asked a person who has not been baptised why not?
Try it you may be surprised why not.

I have done it with a few.

The response generally

"I'm not good enough, I'm a sinner"

Some have been frightened to give some big testimony, are not comfortable with public speaking.

If it were up to me if anyone confessed Jesus as Lord I would take them out and baptise them straight away.
Whether it be in the sea a river or their bath.

Baptism does not save but to me it's a spiritual marker in one's life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And this is why EG. Some will believe this for the natural man is religious. We will worship something, even our own works. This needs addressed.

Not sure what your trying to get at sis.

My whole point about Ralph is that over and over again, he twists and turns what people says, and continues to use this in order to try to prove his point, I have had him on ignore for weeks now. Yet day after day I see you, and many others telling him to stop twisting what people say and saying things which are not true.


As for worshiping our works, I agree, anytime we judge others. Whether it be their sin or lack of works, we are boasting of our works, and putting them below us, which is what religion does, Insteads of giving credit to God, it takes credit for self.

 

[Speak2Me]

We all know works do not justify. Works are required for another reason.

Saved people have works, or else they're not really saved. That's why works are required. Even your 'once saved always saved' doctrine says you have to have works or else you were never saved to begin with. That makes works required to be saved, or else you were never saved to begin with.

So stop arguing with us when we say you have to have works to be saved. We agree with the part of your once saved always saved doctrine that says a person has to have works, and never cease to have works, or else they are not born again.

Did you catch them talking outta both sides of their mouth again?

It happens all the time.

Remember they said that God chastens us? Then on the other hand say there's no repentance after salvation.

So, God chastens us to do... nothing?

This happens all the time, so you'd be better off catching them in their double standards than their theology.

Go after their attitudes & motives, because those are obviously wrong.

 

[BillG]

Who makes up all these abbreviations? Lol what is being pc?

PC, personal computer

I fell foul of this and therefore do not use abbreviations anymore.

Once my daughter text me to tell me she had passed her grade 5 piano exam.

I responded with "WTF"

I thought it meant "Well that's fantastic"

Apparently not.

 

[stonesoffire]

Did you catch them talking outta both sides of their mouth again?

It happens all the time.

Remember they said that God chastens us? Then on the other hand say there's no repentance after salvation.

So, God chastens us to do... nothing?

This happens all the time, so you'd be better off catching them in their double standards than their theology.

Go after their attitudes & motives, because those are obviously wrong.

Chastening is the Word doing its inner work in our life as Holy Spirit reveals it. Only the dead is pruned off our branch.

This is the normal Christian walk. But, there is also chastening for stubbornness and rebellion. My experience has been a missing revelation of Jesus in some way, that breaks me. Undone is a good word to describe it.

Then there is the sin that leads to death.

 

[Magenta]

Who makes up all these abbreviations? Lol what is being pc?

Politically correct

 

[stonesoffire]

PC, personal computer

I fell foul of this and therefore do not use abbreviations anymore.

Once my daughter text me to tell me she had passed her grade 5 piano exam.

I responded with "WTF"

I thought it meant "Well that's fantastic"

Apparently not.

Very funny! Lol.. I knew pc means computer but can't see its use here. Must be my age. It's my excuse for everything. Only works half the time though. Drat!

spellcheck struck again. EG we need an abbreviation for this!

 

[stonesoffire]

Politically correct

Thanks! When in doubt, ask Magenta!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Very funny! Lol.. I knew pc means computer but can't see its use here. Must be my age. It's my excuse for everything. Only works half the time though. Drat!

spellcheck struck again. EG we need an abbreviation for this!

I have been apple’d! Or IPADH

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yeah, "WTF" definitely does NOT mean "well, that's fantastic".. lol

PC, personal computer

I fell foul of this and therefore do not use abbreviations anymore.

Once my daughter text me to tell me she had passed her grade 5 piano exam.

I responded with "WTF"

I thought it meant "Well that's fantastic"

Apparently not.

 

[Speak2Me]

Amen! Hebrews 12:8 (AMPC) - Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all [of God’s children] share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons [at all].

If I get this right, God corrects us so we can be sorry for our sins & repent? Or does God correct us for absolutely nothing?