The Rapture

[Endoscopy]

Only one version is correct. Christ returned circa 70 AD to punish Jerusalem and apostate Jews everywhere who returned and to restore all things giving us a direct path to heaven when we die so that we no longer have to rest in Hades. The teaching is actually quite clear about this.

ROFL!!!!
WHERE DID YOU COME UP WITH THIS IDIOCY!!!

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Lucy,

I'm not sure what you are saying.

The Roman Empire ruled Israel (the People).

Then when the empire fell, the Vatican ruled Israel.

Are you ever going to look past the Vatican? What Empire is surrounding Israel now?

 

[abcdef]

Are you ever going to look past the Vatican?

The Vatican is the religious Roman Empire, Caesar worship and all, the image of the beast. It is only part of the story.

It is important, because it fills in the time line from 70 ad until 1967, which most other popular theories leave out.

Remember the statue of Daniel 2? The iron goes all the way to the end of the toes. It doesn't stop and then start again, it is one solid piece, divided and with clay, but solid.

So it shows that the iron, would be present through time until, the recent times.

Who was the iron nation 500 years ago? Who is the head, that rules over a divided Roman Empire, from the fall of the Roman Empire until Israel is restored to Jerusalem?

No one will answer, because the answer disproves the pre-trib and preterist theories, by showing that the AntiChrist is Caesar and the Vatican, and has been here all the time.

Both pretrib and preterism are hiding the fact, that the Bishop of Rome (BoR), is the Caesar AntiChrist.

The iron is solid, it can be no other.

What Empire is surrounding Israel now?

The Empire of the gentile nations, Magog.

The F prophet, beast, and dragon (Rome), deceive the kings of the East unto attacking Jerusalem, which is restored to control of Israel (1967).

The kings of the East (Iran, Islam), cross the Euphrates River, join with their allies Magog and surround Jerusalem.

 

[Locutus]

Vatican.....

 

[abcdef]

Vatican.....

You know,.....Jesus loves little puppy dogs too. You're so cute. I could just snuggle your little nose. Gimme a little kiss. Good boy.

 

[Locutus]

 

[Bladerunner]

There are Only Seven ( 7 ) Trumps given in Revelation .

Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

What happens in The Last ?

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.



So when Paul mentions the LAST, or Trump in regards to Christs' return , its documented :Last Means Seventh.
The Return of Christ .

After The Tribulation . 5th and 6th come before 7th. What is happening in the 6th ? Tribulation . The deception........

Have you ever considered it was a different type of Trump???????

 

[Bladerunner]

The beast rules the known world of Israel, not all the gentile nations.

Rev 19, is the prophecy of the fall of the Roman Empire in 476 ad. The sea/earth beast.

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V 21, Says that there is a remnant. That would be the earth beast (religious Rome). Religious Rome makes the image of the first beast (sea beast of the unbelieving gentile nations), by having Caesar worship.

The RCC is the image of the Roman Empire. It is Caesar and Caesar worship (man/creation is god).

They are both fought with the gospel sword.

Rome claims to be the only true church/kingdom/Israel.

The Bishop of Rome (BoR), claims to the title of holy father, forgiver of sin, and having more authority than the scriptures.

----

In Rev 20, the first resur. is exactly what it says, the resur. of Jesus. The 2nd will come before the fire from heaven.

The dragon Rome, cannot destroy Israel until they are restored to Jerusalem. (The chain)

Once they are restored, then the Roman iron dragon deceives the nations into surrounding Jerusalem to kill Israel.

I guess my question and I have asked you this before. What is your game plan when you learn what you are saying is false... That is if you get the chance to know. Your rapture might be tomorrow and then the only way you will find out if it is a lie is when you notice your not where you wanted to be.. On the other hand, lets look at the bright side of things... You do get the chance to change by being left behind and living. Are you going to call God a Liar then tooooooooooo?

 

[Bladerunner]

Maybe someone will toss me a few crumbs.

Every true believer that is???????? Your brumbs should be nothing more than 1 Cor 15:1-4. have faith in those verses.

 

[Bladerunner]

Yes there will be gentiles.
They will all have the mark.
That is what the bible says.

Then if they are gentiles how will the be living afterwards..They cannot..for to take the mark is to pronounce your own death sentence. Sure there will be non-believer Gentiles (only) at the beginning of the Millennium , but they have survived without the mark of the beast.

 

[Bladerunner]

Please prove from History that the Theory of a Secret Rapture existed 1000 years ago, or in Jesus's day.

History generally agrees that the secret rapture is linked to futurism and that futurism was invented at the end of the 16th century.
So why, when and how did Futurism creep into early church doctrine? When this interpretation of prophecy began should be of particular interest to all schools of prophetic interpretation.
The former, or futurist system of interpreting the prophecies is now held, strange to say, by many Protestants, but it was first invented by the Jesuit Ribera, at the end of the sixteenth century, to relieve the Papacy from the terrible stigma cast upon it by the Protestant interpretation. This interpretation was so evidently the true and intended one, that the adherents of the Papacy felt its edge must, at any cost, be turned or blunted. If the Papacy were the predicted antichirst, as Protestants asserted, there was an end of the question, and separation from it became an imperative duty.
First, note the fact that Rome's reply to the Reformation in the 16th century included an answer to the prophetic teachings of the Reformers. Through the Jesuits Ribera and Bellarmine, Rome put forth her futurist interpretation of prophecy. Ribera was a Jesuit priest of Salamanca. In 1585 he published a commentary on the Apocalypse, denying the application of the prophecies concerning antichrist to the existing Church of Rome. He was followed by Cardinal Bellarmine, a nephew of Pope Marcellus II, who was born in Tuscany in 1542, and died in Rome in 1621. Bellarmine was not only a man of great learning, but the most powerful controversialist in defence [sic] of Popery that the Roman Church ever produced." Clement VIII used these remarkable words on his nomination: "We choose him, because the Church of God does not possess his equal in learning." Bellarmine, like Ribera, advocated the futurist interpretation of prophecy. He taught that antichrist would be one particular man, that he would be a Jew, that he would be preceded by the reappearance of the literal Enoch and Elias, that he would rebuild the Jewish temple at Jerusalem, compel circumcision, abolish the Christian sacraments, abolish every other form of religion, would manifestly and avowedly deny Christ, would assume to be Christ, and would be received by the Jews as their Messiah, would pretend to be God, would make a literal image speak, would feign himself dead and rise again, and would conquer the whole world – Christian, Mohammedan, and heathen; and all this in the space of three and a half years. He insisted that the prophecies of Daniel, Paul, and John, with reference to the antichrist, had no application what- ever to the Papal power.
There were only two alternatives. If the antichrist were not a present power, he must be either a past or a future one. Some writers asserted that the predictions pointed back to Nero. [This became the Preterist view] This did not take into account the obvious fact that the anti-Christian power predicted was to succeed the fall of the Caesars, and develop among the Gothic nations. The other alternative became therefore the popular one with Papists. Antichrist was future, so Ribera and Bossuet and others taught. An individual man was intended, not a dynasty; the duration of his power would not be for twelve and a half centuries, but only three and a half years; he would be a Jew, and sit in a Jewish temple. Speculation about the future took the place of study of the past and present, and careful comparison of the facts of history with the predictions of prophecy. This related, so it was asserted, not to the main course of the history of the Church, but only to the few closing years of her history. . .
The third or FUTURIST view, is that which teaches that the prophetic visions of Revelation, from chapters 4 to 21, prefigure events still wholly future and not to take place, till just at the close of this dispensation. . . .
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Willing to know more read "History of Futurism" online, there are many sites and most agree. [/FONT]

You don't read your Bible much do you?????If you did you would know that the thought of a Rapture in the future goes all the way back to those Baby Christian Churches before the turn of the 1st century.

 

[Bladerunner]

Exactly, which is why it isn't The Vatican. The nations surrounding Israel are all named in prophecy.
They are all judged.

I think you need to get a copy of the "Woman who Rides the Beast by David Hunt....It will satisfy your lust for the false teaching by many on this forum.

 

[Bladerunner]

Some who worship the beast will swap their allegience to Jesus when he comes in Glory on white horses.

But all on the planet take the mark.

Their may be some obscure ,tiny, exclusions,but they are not significant in number.
( like some unknown tribe in the amazon or something)

Taking the Mark of the Beast is like commiting suicide There is no coming back from it. The Bible tells us so... Look it up. Show me where it tells us that if you take the Mark of the Beast you can at a later date change your mind. PLEASE>>>>>>

 

[Bladerunner]

If anything is getting clear,it is that worship is abandoned adoration and devotion is the sweet incence that the Father and Jesus desires and is prompting in these last days.
I am continually being washed,empowered, and set high ,high,above all this world,to completely divorce it.

Does smoking that stuff do that for you????????WOW????????????/

 

[abcdef]

I guess my question and I have asked you this before. What is your game plan when you learn what you are saying is false... That is if you get the chance to know.

Brother Br,

We might not be in the flesh at the rapture/resurrection anyway. It might be years away, or days away.

What if what you are saying turns out to be false.

You know that you don't totally agree on everything that other pretribbers say.

So does that make you false, totally false? Because you disagree on a few points?

-----

Prophecy is revealed by God, revealed to the mind of men by the Holy Spirit.

The scriptures, are revealed by Him at the time He chooses.

I prefer to look at it, as not being revealed to the mind of others until God is ready. Then people will understand.

Just because they don't understand, just because it has not been revealed to them by God, is really not my problem, if I do my part.

If I blow the trumpet that the bridegroom is coming, it is not my responsibility, if people do not listen. You want to roll over a stay asleep? Not my problem.

I'm blowing the trumpet in your ear, Wake up! Jesus will be here for the kingdom 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls to Iran and it's allies.

It will be the 7th trumpet, the events are described in those passages leading up to that event.

If you can't see, that the army of 200 mill men is on the horizon, going to surround Jerusalem,.....pray about it, ask Jesus, ask Him to show you the truth.

But just to let you know, it is bitter, a bitter truth. If you know Jesus, ask Him.

Your rapture might be tomorrow and then the only way you will find out if it is a lie is when you notice your not where you wanted to be.. On the other hand, lets look at the bright side of things... You do get the chance to change by being left behind and living. Are you going to call God a Liar then tooooooooooo?

We are saved by grace. Not by works. Nobody is perfect.

Jesus is Lord,....... Will you now condemn me as unfaithful?

 

[OtherWay210]

Bladerunner No.

. Different " type " of trumpets ? No ; that is bad fruit .
Revelation doesn't give us multiple choices. They're even presented in order ..

Except what it says or just join the free for all confusion so often illustrated in internet forums ; and always wounder never obtaining the answer because people are too rebellious to listen .....

 

[Ahwatukee]

Bladerunner No.

. Different " type " of trumpets ? No ; that is bad fruit .
Revelation doesn't give us multiple choices. They're even presented in order ..

Except what it says or just join the free for all confusion so often illustrated in internet forums ; and always wounder never obtaining the answer because people are too rebellious to listen .....

Your responses just show your lack of understanding of Scripture. There were trumpets to gather the people of Israel, trumpets for them to move out, when to stop and make camp, when to break camp, to gather Israel's armies and then there is the feast of trumpets, etc.

The type of trumpet regarding the "last trumpet" of 1 Cor.15:52 is not specified. Yet you and others assume that the 7th trumpet of the trumpets is that last trumpet, while at the same time ignoring the fact that the "last trumpet" is a blessing to the church and the 7th trumpet is a plague of wrath. In addition you ignore the fact that there is absolutely nothing in the context in or around the 7th trumpet describing the gathering of the church. And in addition to that, you ignore the fact by having the church gathered at the 7th trumpet, you have them going through the majority of God's wrath, which believers are not appointed to suffer. To get around this, you reinterpret, relocate and pacify God's wrath.

When all is said and done, the only reason that you others have for interpreting the 7th trumpet as being the "last trumpet" is because both scriptures use the word trumpet, and that's it.

Furthermore, you reference to "Bad fruit" is misplaced, because the "bad fruit" in the verse that you are borrowing this from, is referring to those producing fruit of the sinful nature, sexual immorality, slander, idolatry, lying, murder, etc., etc. So you're misapplying the meaning.

The "last trumpet" which signals the gathering of the church, has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet of the trumpet of God's wrath.

 

[OtherWay210]

The Trumps sound in order, and we are given details so there is no guess work as to what happens during..
The Trump sounds the action, which is written. Its not open for interpretation.

People have a bad habit of adding their two cents to scriptures .. We see people do this with the verse in Titus that has the phrase " Blessed Hope " and try to redefine the meaning despite what the passage says plainly .

Blessed hope means faith in Christ. that we have forgiveness of our sins and eternal life . Its also about the New heaven and New earth wherein righteousness dwells aka the final world age. The present age will pass when Christ returns on The Lords Day when Christ dispels lies of Satan and Christ rules all with a rod of iron on earth.. No rapture in Titus 2:13 ..

Like wise with the Trumps in Revelation people dont listen.


1 Corinthians 15:52 is specified as the LAST . Saying its not identified shows you have a real problem on your hands.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The Last is Revelation 11:15 when The Kingdom of God, is on earth, for the Lords Day. Flesh and blood being sin, it must be changed for that time to what Paul taught in the previous verses . Its as simple as following what you read Not trying to fall back on commentary of men .


The Trumpet is the only thing in total order in revelation, No one gets to get that wrong .
The seals and vials, are not in total order, but align with the Last woe Trumps.
The Wrath is poured out on the whore and that system of Antichrist. the two beasts ...

If you are not a Satan worshiper, A real Christian as nothing to be concerned about during the Tribulation. For all will go through it .

The church is a body of believers, and Not all believers are going to make it during the trib, because they will be a whore by the end of it . Consider reading the message to the churches in Revelation.
But the end of it you are either on Gods side,or Satans, and it wont matter what you call it, call yourself a christian, or church, if one has worshiped the Dragon, and apostatizes, Christ wont accept them at His true coming . Most of the Worlds Christians will be deceived according to Revelation Consider Reading 2 Thessalonians 2 without commentary.

Christ returns at the Last, that is the Constant repeated message in the Bible. There is No room for interpreting that, its already a given. Revelation 11:15.

There is not gathering before the Tribulation. It happens After This is repeated After in Matthew 24. Luke 21, and Mark 13.

 

[tanakh]

I dont believe the Pope and the RCC are Babylon and the Beast and anyone who does is being deceived. The same goes for those who are convinced its Islam the USA or whatever the latest popular target might be.

 

[heartofdavid]

Then if they are gentiles how will the be living afterwards..They cannot..for to take the mark is to pronounce your own death sentence. Sure there will be non-believer Gentiles (only) at the beginning of the Millennium , but they have survived without the mark of the beast.

How can your theory cancel what is written?

You are asking me that question.

I don't make your theory my litmus test.
Just ask yourself if " every man,woman,and child...." means what it says,or how you skip it and just say it's not true.