Not By Works

[Chester]

Okay, good.
Where is the line between living in sin and striving to live a holy life? 10 sins a day? 8? 20? How do we quantify this?

Don't resort to personal attacks. Just explain the difference you're making between the unbeliever who lives in sin and won't inherit the kingdom and the believer striving to live a holy life.

This is like a big Chess board. I think I know where you will go from here. I'm ready. Your move.

You didn't ask me - but I will make my move . . . LOL!

Anytime we try to quantify a certain number of sins as a line in the sand - or we say that above a certain number is "living in sin" we have missed the point already.

For the believer, God forgives each and every sin they commit when it is committed. Why? because of the blood of Jesus Christ who paid the full price for sin! Understanding this forgiveness should lead the believer to live above sin and not to practice sin.

For the unbeliever, one single sin committed will condemn him. There is no forgiveness because He is not believing in Christ and rejecting the blood of the Lamb.

There is my move: I just put your King in check with my rook and directly behind your king lies your queen. Move your king aside and I will nab your queen! LOL! You may as well resign the game now! LOL!

 

[star]

Just my thoughts on the subject of KJV vs original Greek vs other translations:

People for ages and ages now have been reading the KJV only. Not many people in yesteryear were thinking, reading, studying the original Greek. They just concentrated on the Word of God.

My great, great, great grandparents, my grandparents and even my parents studying the Word in the KJV without believing they had to know the original Greek to "get it right."

God's message down through the ages will not be lost if one studies, prays, while reading the bible.

 

[LightLoveHope]

i would never judge someone for encouraging good works
i would however call out a lie if i see it

What is a lie to you, as opposed to a difference of opinion?
Something might appear good to me, but others hate it.
I might not connect one idea with another, while others might.

A lie here seems to imply great evil, deception and terrible things.

Jesus talked about the pharisees about this except His point is on their failure to listen

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
John 5:39-40

Maybe everyone actually agrees with this.

See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.
Hebrews 12:15

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Just my thoughts on the subject of KJV vs original Greek vs other translations:

People for ages and ages now have been reading the KJV only. Not many people in yesteryear were thinking, reading, studying the original Greek. They just concentrated on the Word of God.

My great, great, great grandparents, my grandparents and even my parents studying the Word in the KJV without believing they had to know the original Greek to "get it right."

God's message down through the ages will not be lost if one studies, prays, while reading the bible.

i go to strongs sometimes

but i completely agree with you

 

[star]

i go to strongs sometimes

but i completely agree with you

I'm not dismissing using dictionaries, other translations, etc. but there were many people "way back when" who were illiterate, yet, they read the KJV and learned about God Almighty without having to read the original Greek text.

Yes, I use Strongs as well.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

What is a lie to you, as opposed to a difference of opinion?

the opposite of a truth


(usually with the purpose of deception)

for instance

starting a fight and calling the other person a bully for defending themself

just because they hit a little too hard

________

personally i think peace is the way to go

but i wouldnt call the person who defended themself a bully

and to say he was to me seems like a lie

 

[PennEd]

You didn't ask me - but I will make my move . . . LOL!

Anytime we try to quantify a certain number of sins as a line in the sand - or we say that above a certain number is "living in sin" we have missed the point already.

For the believer, God forgives each and every sin they commit when it is committed. Why? because of the blood of Jesus Christ who paid the full price for sin! Understanding this forgiveness should lead the believer to live above sin and not to practice sin.

For the unbeliever, one single sin committed will condemn him. There is no forgiveness because He is not believing in Christ and rejecting the blood of the Lamb.

There is my move: I just put your King in check with my rook and directly behind your king lies your queen. Move your king aside and I will nab your queen! LOL! You may as well resign the game now! LOL!

Very well said! I would add that there is a point that God will harden the unbelievers heart so that he can't repent. A very dangerous place to be. I believe Romans 1 speaks of this hardening. And this passage seems to suggest that there is a finite amount of sin before that happens. I know this is a controversal point though.

Genesis 15:16New King James Version (NKJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP]But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Romans 3:21-28
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

bump incase anyone was thinking they will justified by works or the deeds of the law




all glory to Jesus

our Lord and savior

 

[stonesoffire]

And you'll start speaking God's word when? Do you have anything to say to what I said to you about the topic? Anything constructive?

Joe speaks through Holy Spirit when he does contribute. Fran would know.

 

[joefizz]

Joe speaks through Holy Spirit when he does contribute. Fran would know.

Well to be honest I'm still not spiritually inclined as I used to be,except a few times when total ridiculousness has happened,it's probably because I have so much on my mind all the time,particularly concerning the future,but I still try to let God/Jesus lead the way for thankfully a few temporary times,I don't feel like I did as when I was saved with the holy spirit a few years ago,but at least I wore it out for a long time!
Of course I know alot of it is my own personal slacking spiritually and physically,and trying times particularly recently having so much evil from 2 individuals in my home to endure.

 

[BillG]

Very well said! I would add that there is a point that God will harden the unbelievers heart so that he can't repent. A very dangerous place to be. I believe Romans 1 speaks of this hardening. And this passage seems to suggest that there is a finite amount of sin before that happens. I know this is a controversal point though.

Genesis 15:16New King James Version (NKJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP]But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

What about believers?

Some believe that God heardens believers hearts who struggle with sin or have a sin trait they can't overcome.

They reference

Hebrews 6:4-6


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

 

[Locutus]

Ralph complains to media:

 

[NoNameMcgee]

What about believers?

Some believe that God heardens believers hearts who struggle with sin or have a sin trait they can't overcome.

They reference

Hebrews 6:4-6


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Romans 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

________
1 john

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


______________


Hebrews 6
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

___________

there are those who hear the call

but are not chosen

they were not born again or they no doubt would have continued in faith

__________

proof of tasting the Holy spirit but not being born again BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF



7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[BillG]

Romans 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

________
1 john

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


______________


Hebrews 6
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

___________

there are those who hear the call

but are not chosen

they were not born again or they no doubt would have continued in faith

__________

proof of tasting the Holy spirit but not being born again BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF



7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

In a nutshell my brother.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Romans 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

________
1 john

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


______________


Hebrews 6
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

___________

there are those who hear the call

but are not chosen

they were not born again or they no doubt would have continued in faith

__________

proof of tasting the Holy spirit but not being born again BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF



7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Hi NNM...I am sticking my neck out here , just practicing , so if I get it wrong , than I would love correction...

I thought Hebrews 6 was about the Jews who were coming to Christ , saying they had accepted Him , but they were falling back into their own way by sacrificing animals again...I am sure this was a stumbling block for me a short while ago , but P4T explained it...This was written to the judaism people ...Have I got anything right in there ...xox...

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Hi NNM...I am sticking my neck out here , just practicing , so if I get it wrong , than I would love correction...

I thought Hebrews 6 was about the Jews who were coming to Christ , saying they had accepted Him , but they were falling back into their own way by sacrificing animals again...I am sure this was a stumbling block for me a short while ago , but P4T explained it...This was written to the judaism people ...Have I got anything right in there ...xox...

thats hebrews 10


but you are correct

the verse commonly taken out of context is 10 26

 

[Rosemaryx]

thats hebrews 10


but you are correct

the verse commonly taken out of context is 10 26

I would rather a nearly but not quite , than a no nothing at all hehe...I will know the truth because the truth will set me free...xox...

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I would rather a nearly but not quite , than a no nothing at all hehe...I will know the truth because the truth will set me free...xox...

hahaha
i recently had to help someone with this exact verse

my memory isnt as good as it may seem



as for the context
you have that down

thats what matters

 

[BillG]

Hi NNM...I am sticking my neck out here , just practicing , so if I get it wrong , than I would love correction...

I thought Hebrews 6 was about the Jews who were coming to Christ , saying they had accepted Him , but they were falling back into their own way by sacrificing animals again...I am sure this was a stumbling block for me a short while ago , but P4T explained it...This was written to the judaism people ...Have I got anything right in there ...xox...

That's my understanding as well. Going back to the law.

It's a long debated passage, that will be debated until Jesus comes back.

Along with Hebrews 10:29.

With regards to Hebrews 10:26 which our NNM references to me it's a conscious rejection of God and Jesus and his atonement for sin.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

That's my understanding as well. Going back to the law.

It's a long debated passage, that will be debated until Jesus comes back.

Along with Hebrews 10:29.

With regards to Hebrews 10:26 which our NNM references to me it's a conscious rejection of God and Jesus and his atonement for sin.

to me its saying

because He was the final sacrifice

there remains no more sacrifice for sins as the hebrews did

Hebrews 10King James Version (KJV)
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;