ALL WHO CALL THEMSELVES APOSTLES OF CHRIST ARE LIARS OR DECEIVED OR MENTALLY ILL

[Nehemiah6]

Besides, why would Paul write to the church in the list of ministries, putting apostles at the top of the list, if God wasn't gonna use them anymore?

God used the twelve apostles mightily while they were alive and He continues to use some of them through the written Word of God. When Paul speaks of apostles and prophets we are to take that as FOUNDATIONAL which means that they were involved in putting the Scriptures together. Since we have a complete Bible (66 books) with the OT prophets followed by the NT apostles, the time for apostles is over. And yes, there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, since there are only 12 foundations for the wall of the heavenly city New Jerusalem. In other words "they are carved in stone" in a manner of speaking (with Paul replacing Judas).

 

[FlyingDove]

(with Paul replacing Judas).

16 Peter say's; Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
(NOTE: CONCERNING JUDAS WHO GAVE UP JESUS)

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

26And they gave forth their lots """""and the lot fell upon Matthias""""" and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Matthias replaced Judas! Not Paul!

 

[Magenta]

16 Peter say's; Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
(NOTE: CONCERNING JUDAS WHO GAVE UP JESUS)

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

26And they gave forth their lots """""and the lot fell upon Matthias""""" and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Matthias replaced Judas! Not Paul!

Matthias was chosen by men. Matthias is mentioned three times in Scripture, never to be heard of again. Paul was chosen by Jesus Christ, just as were the original twelve.

​

 

[FlyingDove]

Matthias was chosen by men. Matthias is mentioned three times in Scripture, never to be heard of again. Paul was chosen by Jesus Christ, just as were the original twelve.

Hello Magenta, I never said or implied that Jesus didn't choose Paul. I posted the scripture's that show Matthias was chosen to replace Judas.

Feel free to share scripture's that support, Paul was chosen to replace Judas

 

[FlSnookman7]

Lets not forget about Matthias....



Acts 1:26

“And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.”


​

 

[jaybird88]

where does Jesus call Paul to be an Apostle?

 

[Speak2Me]

God used the twelve apostles mightily while they were alive and He continues to use some of them through the written Word of God. When Paul speaks of apostles and prophets we are to take that as FOUNDATIONAL which means that they were involved in putting the Scriptures together. Since we have a complete Bible (66 books) with the OT prophets followed by the NT apostles, the time for apostles is over. And yes, there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, since there are only 12 foundations for the wall of the heavenly city New Jerusalem. In other words "they are carved in stone" in a manner of speaking (with Paul replacing Judas).

Well, that's a paragraph, but I still don't see no scripture proving your "no longer needed" theory.

 

[Magenta]

Hello Magenta, I never said or implied that Jesus didn't choose Paul. I posted the scripture's that show Matthias was chosen to replace Judas.

Feel free to share scripture's that support, Paul was chosen to replace Judas

I never said you did either I was simply pointing out that Matthias was chosen by men, while Paul was chosen by Jesus Christ. I am not sure why you are so hung up on the "replacing Judas" idea. Judas was a devil. Jesus had told the apostles to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit.

 

[jaybird88]

I never said you did either I was simply pointing out that Matthias was chosen by men, while Paul was chosen by Jesus Christ. I am not sure why you are so hung up on the "replacing Judas" idea. Judas was a devil. Jesus had told the apostles to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit.

where does Jesus say they must wait on the spirit before calling an apostle?

 

[stillness]

Your trouble was solved long ago by called Missionaries, same meaning as apostle: Sent with a mission. You can let go of all anger now.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 1:20-26, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office,’ who was one of the men associated with us all the time the Lord Jesus came and went among us, beginning when he was baptized by John until the day he was taken up from us. Therefore, someone like this must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” So they nominated two men—Joseph called Barsabbas, who also was called Justus, and Matthias. Then they prayed, “Lord, you know the hearts of all people. Show us which one of these two men you have chosen to serve in this office of apostle, from which Judas left to go to his own place.” So they drew lots for them, and when the lot fell on Matthias, he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.”[/FONT]



Acts 1:20, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office.”


Psalm 109:6-8, “Appoint an evil person (Judas) over Him (Jesus); may an accuser stand at His right side. When he is judged, may he be found guilty; may his prayer be regarded as sin. May his days be few; may another (Matthias) take over his position.”


Therefore, the apostles cannot be condemned as making a false or hasty decision on how and when they cast lots to select the replacement for Judas. For it was fulfillment of prophecy.

 

[Magenta]

where does Jesus say they must wait on the spirit before calling an apostle?

Where did I say Jesus said that? Hint: I didn't. I simply stated what Scripture says, which is that Jesus told them to wait. Were they acting with the Spirit? The Spirit had not yet come upon them.

 

[Shamah]

Where did I say Jesus said that? Hint: I didn't. I simply stated what Scripture says, which is that Jesus told them to wait. Were they acting with the Spirit? The Spirit had not yet come upon them.

They were the disciples of Yahshua/Jesus, they fulfilled a prophecy... I think they were men in connection with the Most High...

Acts 1:20-26, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office,’ who was one of the men associated with us all the time the Lord Jesus came and went among us, beginning when he was baptized by John until the day he was taken up from us. Therefore, someone like this must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” So they nominated two men—Joseph called Barsabbas, who also was called Justus, and Matthias. Then they prayed, “Lord, you know the hearts of all people. Show us which one of these two men you have chosen to serve in this office of apostle, from which Judas left to go to his own place.” So they drew lots for them, and when the lot fell on Matthias, he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.”



Acts 1:20, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office.”


Psalm 109:6-8, “Appoint an evil person (Judas) over Him (Jesus); may an accuser stand at His right side. When he is judged, may he be found guilty; may his prayer be regarded as sin. May his days be few; may another (Matthias) take over his position.”


Therefore, the apostles cannot be condemned as making a false or hasty decision on how and when they cast lots to select the replacement for Judas. For it was fulfillment of prophecy.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”[/FONT]

 

[Magenta]

Acts 1:20-26, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office,’ who was one of the men associated with us all the time the Lord Jesus came and went among us, beginning when he was baptized by John until the day he was taken up from us. Therefore, someone like this must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” So they nominated two men—Joseph called Barsabbas, who also was called Justus, and Matthias. Then they prayed, “Lord, you know the hearts of all people. Show us which one of these two men you have chosen to serve in this office of apostle, from which Judas left to go to his own place.” So they drew lots for them, and when the lot fell on Matthias, he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.”

Acts 1:20, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office.”

Psalm 109:6-8, “Appoint an evil person (Judas) over Him (Jesus); may an accuser stand at His right side. When he is judged, may he be found guilty; may his prayer be regarded as sin. May his days be few; may another (Matthias) take over his position.”

Therefore, the apostles cannot be condemned as making a false or hasty decision on how and when they cast lots to select the replacement for Judas. For it was fulfillment of prophecy.

Who has condemned the apostles for choosing Matthias? LOL. Saying that because the apostles drew lots, it was a fulfillment of prophesy is stretching it also. Couldn't Paul just as easily have been the fulfillment of that prophesy? Or do you reject Paul as an apostle?

 

[Shamah]

Who has condemned the apostles for choosing Matthias? LOL. Saying that because the apostles drew lots, it was a fulfillment of prophesy is stretching it also. Couldn't Paul just as easily have been the fulfillment of that prophesy? Or do you reject Paul as an apostle?

Let us review the Scriptures,

“For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office,’ written in Psalm 109:6-8

Then it goes on to say they drew lots on Matt, so are you telling me as it explins how this was fulfilled it is not actually fulfileld in this?

Acts 1:20-26, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office,’ who was one of the men associated with us all the time the Lord Jesus came and went among us, beginning when he was baptized by John until the day he was taken up from us. Therefore, someone like this must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” So they nominated two men—Joseph called Barsabbas, who also was called Justus, and Matthias. Then they prayed, “Lord, you know the hearts of all people. Show us which one of these two men you have chosen to serve in this office of apostle, from which Judas left to go to his own place.” So they drew lots for them, and when the lot fell on Matthias, he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.”

Acts 1:20, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office.”

Psalm 109:6-8, “Appoint an evil person (Judas) over Him (Jesus); may an accuser stand at His right side. When he is judged, may he be found guilty; may his prayer be regarded as sin. May his days be few; may another (Matthias) take over his position.”

Also [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]PAUL EXCLUDES HIMSELF FROM THE 12 but says he works harder than the 12:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:3-11, “For I passed on to you the most important points that I received: The Messiah died for our sins according to the Scriptures, He was buried, he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures—and is still alive! and He was seen by Cephas, and then by the Twelve. After that, he was seen by more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Next he was seen by James, then by all the apostles, and finally he was seen by me, as though I were born abnormally late. For I am the least of the apostles and not even fit to be called an apostle because I persecuted God’s church. But by God’s grace I am what I am, and his grace shown to me was not wasted. Instead, I worked harder than all the others, not I, of course, but God’s grace that was with me. So, whether it was I or the others, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.”
[/FONT]

 

[Zmouth]

Those who call themselves Apostles of Christ today are, quite bluntly, either outright liars, deceived, or mentally ill.

So wouldn't you consider yourself as one who follows the doctrine of your Lord? (See John 18:19) So if you follow his doctrine then you wouldn't you also be a disciple since the disciples began being called Christians in Antioch. (See Acts 11:26)

Note that I am not addressing "apostles" in the sense of church-planters or missionaries. I realize that some use this title to refer to those offices. I am not talking about "apostles of the church" either...those sent by the church for a specific purpose.

It was written that when the High Priest asked Jesus regarding his disciples and his doctrine, Jesus response was "Why askest thou me? ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them:..." John 18:21

I have tested those who claim to be apostles today, and found them FALSE. They were not eyewitnesses to the resurrected Jesus, so they are FALSE. It isn't hard to apply that test and find that all claimants are FALSE today.

While I don't claim to be a Christian, so obviously I wouldn't claim to be an apostle, yet if I was then I would claim I was an apostle. So if I claim that I am an apostle then for demonstration purposes would you care to test the claim that I am an Apostle?

Do you think you can test the truth of my claim except your are claiming that you are an apostle too since the words of the prophets are subject to the prophets. (See 1 Cor 14:32) Since the words I speak by the Holy Ghost are true and I lie not; then if you deny that you are an apostle then should anyone believe that your speak the truth in Christ and lie not?

 

[posthuman]

under Moses, under the Law, things were sometimes decided with the urim and thummim to determine God's will. this is not unlike casting lots.

but the Lord Jesus Christ chose Paul directly, "as face to face" -- in the same way Moses spoke with God, not the way Aaron and the priests after him did -- which is as the way the apostles chose by lots, as though after Levi. God Himself in the person of Jesus has come, and has declared His will.

 

[posthuman]

Also PAUL EXCLUDES HIMSELF FROM THE 12 but says he works harder than the 12:


1 Corinthians 15:3-11, “For I passed on to you the most important points that I received: The Messiah died for our sins according to the Scriptures, He was buried, he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures—and is still alive! and He was seen by Cephas, and then by the Twelve. After that, he was seen by more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Next he was seen by James, then by all the apostles, and finally he was seen by me, as though I were born abnormally late. For I am the least of the apostles and not even fit to be called an apostle because I persecuted God’s church. But by God’s grace I am what I am, and his grace shown to me was not wasted. Instead, I worked harder than all the others, not I, of course, but God’s grace that was with me. So, whether it was I or the others, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.”

in the passage you cited he does call himself an apostle - the least of them to be sure, by his own measure, not fit to be called one: and perhaps interestingly, he calls them "the twelve" not the twelve 'apostles'

and here among other places:

Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead)
(Galatians 1:1)
​

while he writes with sincere humility, he also in no way denies what he is called as, nor neglects to make it clear that he is called not by the appointment of men but by the appointment of the Lord.

Am I not an apostle?
(1 Corinthians 9:1)
​

 

[Shamah]

in the passage you cited he does call himself an apostle - the least of them to be sure, by his own measure, not fit to be called one: and perhaps interestingly, he calls them "the twelve" not the twelve 'apostles'

and here among other places:

Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead)
(Galatians 1:1)
​

while he writes with sincere humility, he also in no way denies what he is called as, nor neglects to make it clear that he is called not by the appointment of men but by the appointment of the Lord.

Am I not an apostle?
(1 Corinthians 9:1)
​

OK that is not what I said though, I said he excludes himself from the 12. I understand he says he is an apostle, I was simply pointing out Paul is not one of the 12 disciples of Yahshuia/Jesus.