Has Jesus Christ returned?

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OtherWay210

Guest
#21
The bible teaches a second advent in prophecies, Christ will return to earth to establish His Kingdom here.

The verses the OP posted is not easily understood if you dont have all the scriptures in mind .

The day of vengeance, is the wrath that will be poured out on
Only the bad. and Satan and his system of deception.


Revelation 20 states fire will rain down from God and stop the advancing attack from all the worlds forces. near the end of the Lords Day .. when Satan is released for one short last time .

That did Not happen with Rome. And you have to know what Christ was teaching with the parable of the fig tree.

Let along the fact, the apostles said tell use what is the " end of the world " and the signs " of your return .

When Christ returns, there is a Resurrection ( obtaining of eternal life ) of those who stood against the deception, they take part in enternal life at the True Christ's return ( the first Resurrection which the second death is not a concern ) .


People saying this has happened already, dont know the scriptures, you need to study whoever you are which dont know the different between which prophecy is about what.


2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;


18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.




Paul did not like people taking these scriptures saying they are past. He even says its overthrowing people from the faith.

Remember, you either have Christ's teachings, or you're teaching some different christ, not the narrow path Christ taught.


2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.




Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias ( Isaiah ). And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.


20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


That is the First advent. The second, is written in the place he stopped reading In Isaiah. Read it yourself.





 
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OtherWay210

Guest
#22
Just to remind people. The parable of the fig tree is
about Israels establishment. Not their annexation :
(Roman control, and Vespasian's command to destroy Jerusalem ) .


 
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wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
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#23
MatthewG, i overread that you mean that Jesus lives in us and so is no need for an visible return. Jesus lives in us through the Holy Spirit. The Lord himself is sitting at the right side of the father. For what reason he should send the Holy Spirit if he is coming by himself to live in the believer?
Your view sounds like from the JW which believe that Jesus came spiritually to earth.
From where you got your view?
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
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#24

The Lord said I come quickly and when you're perspective is from eternity where there is no time as we know it and with what Peter taught us, that a thousand years is as a day and a day is as a thousand years. With that backdrop 10 thousand years is quickly.
 
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OtherWay210

Guest
#25
Johnny_B I come quickly is said within the teaching of prophecy.

If John is writing from The Lords Day as he relates things ;
then we gotta update our thinking to reflect what is being talked about .

I think you're talking about Revelation 22 ? .

In that chapter, heaven is here on earth as God established here.
Its the third and final world age, being taught in that chapter.
 
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tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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#26
Just to remind people. The parable of the fig tree is
about Israels establishment. Not their annexation :
(Roman control, and Vespasian's command to destroy Jerusalem ) .


It isn't anything to do with the establishment of Israel. Its about judgement. Instead of concentrating on the tree think about Fig Leaves. They first mentioned in Genesis. Adam and Eve used them to cover their sinfulness. Jesus cursed one because it only had leaves and no fruit. The leaves represent the human attempt to cover sin. excuses for sin. Jesus condemned the Jewish leadership and used the fig tree as an illustration. The fig tree sprouting leaves is a warning of his return in judgement. The other trees represent the judgement of the worlds nations.
 
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Nov 19, 2016
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#27
My only question is, was the Apostles talking about the coming of the Lord then or not?
Was what they said true or not?

You can either say, Yes. The Apostles talked about the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ coming then, and He come back and did return to them, and is with us now.

Or you can say, No. The Apostles talked about the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ but He has not shown up yet, and He is not with us, and He didn't come back because the Apostles, didn't understand, and were misunderstanding what Jesus Christ talking about, even though Jesus Christ told His Apostles he was gonna return, He rested in heaven for 2000 years, until He really gonna let the dog out of the bag, and that He is only kinda with us right now.


You are free to believe how you are going to believe on these matters, it is up for you to decide for your own self.

I understand Ahwatukee, friend in Christ. We just see it differently. I believe a generation for them at that time, was for their time, and only their time. No one elses time, Son of Man would show up on a day unknown to them. I do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ does live with-in a believer, and I believe that Jesus Christ is around the believer, just like God is too, just not in a psychical form, and I don't think there is no need in seeing a psychical return of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Spiritual return is enough to live off of, and thank God for, because of the peace, and grace among us.

Revelation 1:
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Revelation 1:7 all the peoples (of the nations that where in the land they lived in/ Jewish Tribes?) of the earth-(in the land/Region they lived) will mourn when they see him."

(So John was writing to the Seven churches in Asia, and a few lines later it talks about all people in that land will mourn when they see Him coming back)

There are words to define what earth means in the greek. Some people you don't have to go look at world, or earth to find out what it means just like it be literal and that is all you need to do. I would say that is unfair servicing to others.

Don't get me wrong, here however. You are very much free to believe that Jesus Christ is going to return for the rest of your life if you want, and have that hope and dream of seeing it all come down.

Or You can believe that Lord Jesus Christ has already returned, not worrying about and still go around Loving God, and Loving Others.



No one has said anything about the scripture I shared, is any of it true, or if any of it was a lie, breaking it down where it talks about the Lord's coming.

You can look at scripture and see what is there, or you can make into a future thing to if you want, and I look at all things as they have done been completed in the past, to the people in the 1st Cent, Ad 70.


Not trying to debate or anything like this, just I made this post to show people about the Apostles talking about the scripture that does talk about the Lord's Coming.

WolfWint, 3 Reasons for Jesus Christ return take the church/ believers in Christ away; for to defeat the enemy of the folk of Israel, judge the world and for to rule in Jerusalem during millenium.

Yes according to the bible I believe what you are saying is true, Wolfwint.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
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#28
Hi MatthewG,

I understand Ahwatukee, friend in Christ. We just see it differently. I believe a generation for them at that time, was for their time, and only their time. No one elses time, Son of Man would show up on a day unknown to them. I do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ does live with-in a believer, and I believe that Jesus Christ is around the believer, just like God is too, just not in a psychical form, and I don't think there is no need in seeing a psychical return of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Spiritual return is enough to live off of, and thank God for, because of the peace, and grace among us.


The thing is that, the end-time events can only happen one way. I present scripture to support the order of events.

When Jesus returns, the beast and the false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire as revealed in Rev.19:20 of whom we have not yet seen.

During that same time, Satan will be thrown into and restricted in the Abyss, which has also not happened.

Also, during that time, the prophecy of Isaiah states that the armies of the nations will beat their swords plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks and the nations shall not train for war anymore. Needless to say, none of these things have taken place. Therefore the claim that Jesus has already returned cannot be made. That is what the signs that Jesus gave are for and what the book of Revelation is about. There markers.

Regarding this, we have also not seen any of the events of wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which will be like nothing the world has ever seen.

After Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, he establishes his thousand year reign. That hasn't happened.

I hope that you can see the truth of these things that I am presenting to you, because they come from cross-referencing and comparing scripture.

The gathering of the church is about to take place. Once that event happens, the antichrist will be revealed and the day of the Lord will begin. That is where we are right now, waiting for the blessed hope, the appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
936
113
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#29
My only question is, was the Apostles talking about the coming of the Lord then or not?
Was what they said true or not?

You can either say, Yes. The Apostles talked about the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ coming then, and He come back and did return to them, and is with us now.

Or you can say, No. The Apostles talked about the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ but He has not shown up yet, and He is not with us, and He didn't come back because the Apostles, didn't understand, and were misunderstanding what Jesus Christ talking about, even though Jesus Christ told His Apostles he was gonna return, He rested in heaven for 2000 years, until He really gonna let the dog out of the bag, and that He is only kinda with us right now.


You are free to believe how you are going to believe on these matters, it is up for you to decide for your own self.

I understand Ahwatukee, friend in Christ. We just see it differently. I believe a generation for them at that time, was for their time, and only their time. No one elses time, Son of Man would show up on a day unknown to them. I do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ does live with-in a believer, and I believe that Jesus Christ is around the believer, just like God is too, just not in a psychical form, and I don't think there is no need in seeing a psychical return of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Spiritual return is enough to live off of, and thank God for, because of the peace, and grace among us.

Revelation 1:
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Revelation 1:7 all the peoples (of the nations that where in the land they lived in/ Jewish Tribes?) of the earth-(in the land/Region they lived) will mourn when they see him."

(So John was writing to the Seven churches in Asia, and a few lines later it talks about all people in that land will mourn when they see Him coming back)

There are words to define what earth means in the greek. Some people you don't have to go look at world, or earth to find out what it means just like it be literal and that is all you need to do. I would say that is unfair servicing to others.

Don't get me wrong, here however. You are very much free to believe that Jesus Christ is going to return for the rest of your life if you want, and have that hope and dream of seeing it all come down.

Or You can believe that Lord Jesus Christ has already returned, not worrying about and still go around Loving God, and Loving Others.



No one has said anything about the scripture I shared, is any of it true, or if any of it was a lie, breaking it down where it talks about the Lord's coming.

You can look at scripture and see what is there, or you can make into a future thing to if you want, and I look at all things as they have done been completed in the past, to the people in the 1st Cent, Ad 70.


Not trying to debate or anything like this, just I made this post to show people about the Apostles talking about the scripture that does talk about the Lord's Coming.

WolfWint, 3 Reasons for Jesus Christ return take the church/ believers in Christ away; for to defeat the enemy of the folk of Israel, judge the world and for to rule in Jerusalem during millenium.

Yes according to the bible I believe what you are saying is true, Wolfwint.
We know from the OT prohecies that the prophet not always knew when the prophecies would take place. And so it is to understand that the Apostles had a near time expecting about the coming of Christ. But they got not the information when this would be. Of course we are saying Jesus lives in me, but we know that this is only because the Holy Spirit who was sent from Jesus, is living in us.
You cant compare this fact to the bible words which talking about his coming. Ore would you say that 1. John 3, 2 is fullfilled?
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#30

The Lord said I come quickly and when you're perspective is from eternity where there is no time as we know it and with what Peter taught us, that a thousand years is as a day and a day is as a thousand years. With that backdrop 10 thousand years is quickly.
That is what I want to say to some of those who say a thousand years, are literal because in the account of the holy spirit by Peter. That a thousand years is as a day and a day is as a thousand years.


It isn't anything to do with the establishment of Israel. Its about judgement. Instead of concentrating on the tree think about Fig Leaves. They first mentioned in Genesis. Adam and Eve used them to cover their sinfulness. Jesus cursed one because it only had leaves and no fruit. The leaves represent the human attempt to cover sin. excuses for sin. Jesus condemned the Jewish leadership and used the fig tree as an illustration. The fig tree sprouting leaves is a warning of his return in judgement. The other trees represent the judgement of the worlds nations.
That is really interesting insight Tanakh.

Hi MatthewG[/COLOR]
I love you, my friend in Christ, and you are entitled to the way that you see scriptures.
But i don't believe I am misrepresenting what Jesus Christ said about the Generation He was talking to.
But seeings how that you disagree with me, that is fine, and you may believe as you see the scriptures by the Holy Spirit that leads you friend.

We know from the OT prohecies that the prophet not always knew when the prophecies would take place. And so it is to understand that the Apostles had a near time expecting about the coming of Christ. But they got not the information when this would be. Of course we are saying Jesus lives in me, but we know that this is only because the Holy Spirit who was sent from Jesus, is living in us.
You cant compare this fact to the bible words which talking about his coming. Ore would you say that 1. John 3, 2 is fullfilled?

I did in my original post place 1 John 3:2 as well as a few others from the book of John.

1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Jesus Christ is the will of God).

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall- (soon) appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming (Who is coming to Judge, who is coming to Gather His elect?).

1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we (they) shall- (soon) be: but we know that, when he shall- (Soon) appear, we (they) shall- (soon) be like him; for we (they) shall- (Soon) see him as he is.

God bless everyone, and your families, in the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
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#31
That is what I want to say to some of those who say a thousand years, are literal because in the account of the holy spirit by Peter. That a thousand years is as a day and a day is as a thousand years.




That is really interesting insight Tanakh.



I love you, my friend in Christ, and you are entitled to the way that you see scriptures.
But i don't believe I am misrepresenting what Jesus Christ said about the Generation He was talking to.
But seeings how that you disagree with me, that is fine, and you may believe as you see the scriptures by the Holy Spirit that leads you friend.




I did in my original post place 1 John 3:2 as well as a few others from the book of John.

1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Jesus Christ is the will of God).

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall- (soon) appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming (Who is coming to Judge, who is coming to Gather His elect?).

1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we (they) shall- (soon) be: but we know that, when he shall- (Soon) appear, we (they) shall- (soon) be like him; for we (they) shall- (Soon) see him as he is.

God bless everyone, and your families, in the Lord Jesus Christ.
MatthewG, you did not answer my question. Is 1. John 3, 2 fullfilled?
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#32
MatthewG, you did not answer my question. Is 1. John 3, 2 fullfilled?
Yes. That was to happen for them, It was written to them at that time so it was for them.

Because soon can't mean a very long while.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
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#33
So for to understand right. 1.John is not written for all believers, but only for the believers which lives in this Time when the letter was written.
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#34
Yes, brother wolfwint, that is the way that I look at it.

See brother wolfwint. I don't believe we had a completed copy of the bible until the 1500's.

So all of these letters, that were written were written to people and letters were sent.

Like to Corinthians, Thessalonians, Philippians, Romans, Hebrews (Jewish Converts), all of these letters where written and sent, or message given there at that time.

I also believe that the Word of God powerful, and that the Lord Jesus Christ, changes everything!

I hope this helps you in your question retaining what you asked now, friend in Christ Jesus.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
936
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#35
So what then from the Bible is for you and me today, if it is meant for the Readers which lived to the time when the letters where written?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
936
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#36
Yes, brother wolfwint, that is the way that I look at it.

See brother wolfwint. I don't believe we had a completed copy of the bible until the 1500's.

So all of these letters, that were written were written to people and letters were sent.

Like to Corinthians, Thessalonians, Philippians, Romans, Hebrews (Jewish Converts), all of these letters where written and sent, or message given there at that time.

I also believe that the Word of God powerful, and that the Lord Jesus Christ, changes everything!

I hope this helps you in your question retaining what you asked now, friend in Christ Jesus.
So what is about the Canon? Why you think that there was not a Complete Copy from the Bible before 1500? What is about the scripture the found in Quomran in the 4ties of the last Century?
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
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adelaiderevival.com
#37
YES everybody knows that Jesus returned way back in 1914 and has ever since
residedin a building in New York called The Watchtower'
I think they keep him in their secret chamber.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#38
YES everybody knows that Jesus returned way back in 1914 and has ever since
residedin a building in New York called The Watchtower'
I think they keep him in their secret chamber.
thats the story and they seem to be sticking to it. ???
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#40
Brother Wolfwint, I have no response aside from I said that it was around the 1500 that we got a completed english translated bible that we could read and look at, and that back then when they were written as letters they were sent to specific places around the earth - (Regions) they knew and understood.. I don't have all the answers.

Brother Waggles, there have been many people out there who have said that Jesus Christ would come back on a set date, and people did believe and fall into those things, before haven't they.

Even after Jesus Christ died, and rose again there were people who preached Jesus Christ was coming back before He really did, I think it was paul who warned about those people back in those times.

Sister Stoneoffire, :)

Brother Locutus, my friend.


I hope everyone has had a wonderful day.

Gal 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,