Has Jesus Christ returned?

[wolfwint]

Brother Wolfwint, I have no response aside from I said that it was around the 1500 that we got a completed english translated bible that we could read and look at, and that back then when they were written as letters they were sent to specific places around the earth - (Regions) they knew and understood.. I don't have all the answers.

Brother Waggles, there have been many people out there who have said that Jesus Christ would come back on a set date, and people did believe and fall into those things, before haven't they.

Even after Jesus Christ died, and rose again there were people who preached Jesus Christ was coming back before He really did, I think it was paul who warned about those people back in those times.

Sister Stoneoffire,

Brother Locutus, my friend.


I hope everyone has had a wonderful day.

Gal 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Brother MatthewG, first you did not say that you meant the english translation when you said that there was no complete bible before 1500.
And 2nd why you give no response to post #35?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Yes, brother wolfwint, that is the way that I look at it.

See brother wolfwint. I don't believe we had a completed copy of the bible until the 1500's.

So all of these letters, that were written were written to people and letters were sent.

Like to Corinthians, Thessalonians, Philippians, Romans, Hebrews (Jewish Converts), all of these letters where written and sent, or message given there at that time.

I also believe that the Word of God powerful, and that the Lord Jesus Christ, changes everything!

I hope this helps you in your question retaining what you asked now, friend in Christ Jesus.

Hello MatthewG,

That would be incorrect, for the Codex Sinaiticus was completed in the middle of the fourth century:

What is Codex Sinaiticus?

Codex Sinaiticus, a manuscript of the Christian Bible written in the middle of the fourth century, contains the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament. The hand-written text is in Greek. The New Testament appears in the original vernacular language (koine) and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians. In the Codex, the text of both the Septuagint and the New Testament has been heavily annotated by a series of early correctors.

Codex Sinaiticus - About Codex Sinaiticus

 

[MatthewG]

Brother MatthewG, first you did not say that you meant the english translation when you said that there was no complete bible before 1500.
And 2nd why you give no response to post #35?

Sometimes I do not speak so clearly. Is there any other questions that you may have pertaining to the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, aside from anything that may get off of topic, as far as speaking with me about the bible, context, canon, or the people in the 4th century, there was scripture, cool. We had to have copies off the originals, and translations to finally get a bible we have now in english. Took a long time.

If there is anything else I can personally help with keep in my mind I am just a human being, Thank you dear friend in Christ Jesus.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What is Codex Sinaiticus?

Codex Sinaiticus, a manuscript of the Christian Bible written in the middle of the fourth century, contains the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament. The hand-written text is in Greek. The New Testament appears in the original vernacular language (koine) and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians. In the Codex, the text of both the Septuagint and the New Testament has been heavily annotated by a series of early correctors.

Read CORRUPTED for "heavily annotated". And yet the rationalistic textual critics had the gall to use it thus: The significance of Codex Sinaiticus for the reconstruction of the Christian Bible's original text, the history of the Bible and the history of Western book-making is immense.

Yes, they have definitely "reconstructed" the Bible in the modern Bible corruptions.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello MatthewG,
That would be incorrect, for the Codex Sinaiticus was completed in the middle of the fourth century:
What is Codex Sinaiticus?

Codex Sinaiticus, a manuscript of the Christian Bible written in the middle of the fourth century, contains the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament. The hand-written text is in Greek. The New Testament appears in the original vernacular language (koine) and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians. In the Codex, the text of both the Septuagint and the New Testament has been heavily annotated by a series of early correctors.

So that would mean nearly 400 years, after Jesus Christ, came, died, rose, and came back again. There was the completion of the New Testament, in their language, whatever it was at the time (Greek?). Over the years, it had to carry out, and through time it came to the English, which was around the 1500's, when we could have a bible that was translated in English, and be able to have read, and understand it.

The 4th century was the time period which lasted from 301 to 400. In the West, the early part of the century was shaped by Constantine the Great, who became the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity.




Period: 301 AD – 400 AD


Timelines: 3rd century; 4th century; 5th century


Thanks for sharing this information with us, Brother WolfWint, Brother Ahwatukee! I learned something new today, that the 4th century time would have been around 301 - 400 AD where the Constantine was the First Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity.

 

[wolfwint]

So that would mean nearly 400 years, after Jesus Christ, came, died, rose, and came back again. There was the completion of the New Testament, in their language, whatever it was at the time (Greek?). Over the years, it had to carry out, and through time it came to the English, which was around the 1500's, when we could have a bible that was translated in English, and be able to have read, and understand it.

The 4th century was the time period which lasted from 301 to 400. In the West, the early part of the century was shaped by Constantine the Great, who became the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity.




Period: 301 AD – 400 AD


Timelines: 3rd century; 4th century; 5th century


Thanks for sharing this information with us, Brother WolfWint, Brother Ahwatukee! I learned something new today, that the 4th century time would have been around 301 - 400 AD where the Constantine was the First Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity.

MatthewG, from whom you have that Jesus came already back? And if Jesus came back in the days of the Apostel where is he now? Have we to wait for a 3rd coming of Jesus?

 

[Ahwatukee]

So that would mean nearly 400 years, after Jesus Christ, came, died, rose, and came back again. There was the completion of the New Testament, in their language, whatever it was at the time (Greek?). Over the years, it had to carry out, and through time it came to the English, which was around the 1500's, when we could have a bible that was translated in English, and be able to have read, and understand it.

The 4th century was the time period which lasted from 301 to 400. In the West, the early part of the century was shaped by Constantine the Great, who became the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity.




Period: 301 AD – 400 AD


Timelines: 3rd century; 4th century; 5th century

Thanks for sharing this information with us, Brother WolfWint, Brother Ahwatukee! I learned something new today, that the 4th century time would have been around 301 - 400 AD where the Constantine was the First Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity.

Greetings MatthewG,

Yes, that is correct! The Codex Sinaiticus came into being around the middle of the fourth century (350 AD) written in Koine Greek, which is where we get many of our English translations from. There is also a Latin version called "The Codex Vaticanus. The Greek is what I often consult when I am doing my studies, as well as the comparison of the major translations for an given scripture and the Interlinear.

 

[stillness]

Did not read the posts, just answering the question: He announced His coming as a thief first, happening now, "Judgment must begin at the house of God." More serious than we realise at this time. For example: when David asked Nabal for help and he refused. David came as a thief and Abigail interceded and became His bride after her husband died of a stony heart. Do you get the picture, to be part of the first Resurrection is to stand as intercessors during the time of trouble when He comes to judge the earth. The natural tendency is to flee from the trouble. Some have done this already and remained faithful intercessors while persecuted for their faith, now we are entering the time of trouble such as never was, there will be no place to hide from the Lord.

 

[MatthewG]

MatthewG, from whom you have that Jesus came already back? And if Jesus came back in the days of the Apostel where is he now? Have we to wait for a 3rd coming of Jesus?

The reality is that He is already here with you now. People have always said you can talk to God, and Jesus Christ, here on this earth, so I can say that Jesus Christ is with everyone who is a believer, walking also among the unbelievers as well, they have just yet to turn and see Him as of yet because of their unbelief.

Greetings MatthewG,
Yes, that is correct! The Codex Sinaiticus came into being around the middle of the fourth century (350 AD) written in Koine Greek, which is where we get many of our English translations from. There is also a Latin version called "The Codex Vaticanus. The Greek is what I often consult when I am doing my studies, as well as the comparison of the major translations for an given scripture and the Interlinear.

Awesome, glad to learn something new friend, in Christ Jesus.

Did not read the posts, just answering the question: He announced His coming as a thief first, happening now, "Judgment must begin at the house of God." More serious than we realise at this time. For example: when David asked Nabal for help and he refused. David came as a thief and Abigail interceded and became His bride after her husband died of a stony heart. Do you get the picture, to be part of the first Resurrection is to stand as intercessors during the time of trouble when He comes to judge the earth. The natural tendency is to flee from the trouble. Some have done this already and remained faithful intercessors while persecuted for their faith, now we are entering the time of trouble such as never was, there will be no place to hide from the Lord.

So without looking at the scripture or posts, shown you share your own belief, in the way you see things now as the world turns. Fair enough and you are entitled to your view. I do disagree however, because I believe all of these things have past as far the concern of Jesus Christ returning (He came back and saved them, and us too). But you may keep believing it to be so if you wish dear friend in Christ Jesus.


There seem to be a view more active people on this forum site, who actually do agree that the Lord Jesus Christ did come, and God bless them for really understanding this, because there really is so much confusion out there these days, and I don't know how often this is taught in church, because it most cases it is not taught at all, that the Lord Jesus Christ has come back, but that He is still coming.

See if Jesus Christ lied to His disciples, and never came back to them in the generation He said He would...

I believe all life on earth who have ceased to exist.

Our Friend Christ DiscipleDavid, shared in a different topic (which I think was great http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/162760-matthew-chapter-24-thoughts-2.html)

Mathew 24 is a response by Jesus Christ given to His Disciples who asked: What are the signs of your coming, and the end of the World?

Jesus answered their question by describing things that would take place prior to His coming.

Great Tribulations such as has never been, nor ever will be takes place prior to the Jesus Coming in the clouds. And Scriptures even plainly testifies to that TRUTH by plainly saying AFTER the Tribulations of those days he shall appear. And if He would not have appeared, all life would have been killed on Earth, but for the elects sake He shortened that great tribulations by appearing a second time on Earth, and Gathering up the Church Body, those who are asleep (dead) and those who are awake (alive).

The greatest Tribulations that has ever been, nor ever shall be again, happens PRIOR to Jesus Christ Coming to Rapture the Church. How anyone can believe pretrib is beyond me, when Scriptures plainly and clearly teaches that Great tribulation such as never has been before nor ever will be again, happens BEFORE Jesus appears in the sky.
This is a perfect example how this generation will change Scriptures to fit into their own false doctrines, instead of changing what they believe to line up with Scriptures. They blindly believe the doctrine that Jesus is going to come BEFORE Great Tribulations, when Scriptures plainly and clearly says He will come AFTER. Woe to this generation indeed for they altogether fail to understand this simple TRUTH, that God reproved me several times about.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[dcontroversal]

NO....and the disciples looked at things from God's perspective....one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day...even compares a thousand years to a watch in the night and as but yesterday.....the universal application of the word and timing of the eventwritten unto the disciples of Christ and unto his churches ALLOW for the return of Christ to be applicable unto any and ALL disciples and or churches in existence when he does return......

 

[MatthewG]

NO....and the disciples looked at things from God's perspective....one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day...even compares a thousand years to a watch in the night and as but yesterday.....the universal application of the word and timing of the eventwritten unto the disciples of Christ and unto his churches ALLOW for the return of Christ to be applicable unto any and ALL disciples and or churches in existence when he does return......

Okay, but don't you think that even with the scriptures talking about the Lord Jesus Christ coming is true, while Jesus Christ was telling them about His coming on the Mount of Olives?

Even aside from the silly A day is like a thousand years, and thousand years is like a day.

You can't make it universal to say that because this says this it means this leaves open for the Lord Jesus Christ to come back.
unless you want to which is fine, but I just don't consider it the case my friend in Christ Jesus Dcontroversal.

It would be silly to think, that Jesus Christ telling the Disciples about something they would see (would apply for us today too) (That we would see the same thing as them)... (Because there would be no greater tribulation than that time) (How can something that is to be so great as far as tribulation would seem to be, that would never be around again come back again?)

That would not make any sense to me personally, because I look at it strictly from the historical aspect of what being said to the Disciples. Because I trust Jesus Christ what He said about His coming, to return to His elect, and to reign judgement, and that the tribulations would start before He came, that the disciples would be experiencing the last days, before His return.

Maybe if we died, because we are going to the Lord Jesus Christ in that way He is gonna kinda return, but we going to Him now, not Him to us. Because He is already here with us, and helping us through life, as we believe, and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Ahwatukee]

It would be silly to think, that Jesus Christ telling the Disciples about something they would see (would apply for us today too)

Good day MatthewG!

Why would you think it silly that Jesus should tell his disciples something that didn't pertain to them, but to the generation where it would take place. These things had to be said to them so that it could be recorded, so that those of the generation that this would happen to would recognize those signs. Regarding this, what do you think about the following scripture:

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand - then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

In the scripture above, the disciples asked Jesus what the signs of his coming would be and the end of the age. Notice that the Lord inserted "let the reader understand," which demonstrates that the Lord knew that what he was telling his disciples would be written for later generations to read. It was then written for every generation up until that event takes place. Consider the following also:

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

The above is a prophecy from Isaiah to king Ahaz regarding the coming Messiah, which says "therefore the Lord himself will give 'you' a sign," yet, that prophecy did not take place in his lifetime, but 750 years later.

Therefore, why do you find it silly to think that something could be written for a later generation? It is the same thing with the disciples. Jesus told them things that haven't happened yet, that were meant for a distant future from their perspective, but the disciple didn't know that, as they believed, just like all the generations after them, that the Lord's return was near, imminent.

 

[MatthewG]

Good day MatthewG!
Therefore, why do you find it silly to think that something could be written for a later generation? It is the same thing with the disciples. Jesus told them things that haven't happened yet, that were meant for a distant future from their perspective, but the disciple didn't know that, as they believed, just like all the generations after them, that the Lord's return was near, imminent.

In Matthew 24:15 Jesus Christ never said Let the Reader understand though. It was an Insertation by the writer saying Hey go back and look at the prophet Daniel, you're gonna have to understand this old testament book a bit better to understand what is being said here by Jesus Christ. At least not in the King James Version.

The reason I find it all silly Ahwatukee my friend in Christ Jesus, is because people can use the scripture for their own benefit, and say well generation didn't mean for them, it is ment for a generation in the future, yet Jesus Christ says openly, this generation, or that generation there at that time, because Jesus Christ said This generation as if it was here (Now), but if you pretend your in the past like standing behind Jesus Christ and His Disciples listening in, it a total different perspective.

I have heard it explained to me once there was a man who said "Matthew 24:34 Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass." Is one of the hardest verses into interpret.

So one person can say it was for the generation at the time.
So one person can say it was for a generation ahead of their time.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass.
Also as you can see here, that the generation Jesus Christ was talking about here with his disciples, would not pass away untill all the things before had were to come, which were great tribulation, last days, then the return.

And I want to make the most logical choice I possibly can make without making it into something completely different.
And I consider this too, if someone was to believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has came already, it could break their own faith (maybe not break it but have more questions Im sure), it really could, so I think might be the last post I make on this, note for the time being until some future time comes about.

But you have to remember this even though anyone that is a believer waiting on the Lord Jesus Christ to come back, just remember He is already with you right now.

And because people can use the scripture like this, it goes no where. Besides the Scripture I posted in my original post, have scripture that talks about the Lord Coming, and it was for their generation.

Anyway God bless everyone here, and on this site. May the Lord Jesus Christ give you peace and comfort.

I really do want to thank everyone who has posted in the threads I have made.

 

[Locutus]

Stick to yer guns Matt - yer doing good for a young 'un.

 

[iamsoandso]

In Matthew 24:15 Jesus Christ never said Let the Reader understand though. It was an Insertation by the writer saying Hey go back and look at the prophet Daniel, you're gonna have to understand this old testament book a bit better to understand what is being said here by Jesus Christ. At least not in the King James Version.

The reason I find it all silly Ahwatukee my friend in Christ Jesus, is because people can use the scripture for their own benefit, and say well generation didn't mean for them, it is ment for a generation in the future, yet Jesus Christ says openly, this generation, or that generation there at that time, because Jesus Christ said This generation as if it was here (Now), but if you pretend your in the past like standing behind Jesus Christ and His Disciples listening in, it a total different perspective.

I have heard it explained to me once there was a man who said "Matthew 24:34 Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass." Is one of the hardest verses into interpret.

So one person can say it was for the generation at the time.
So one person can say it was for a generation ahead of their time.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass.
Also as you can see here, that the generation Jesus Christ was talking about here with his disciples, would not pass away untill all the things before had were to come, which were great tribulation, last days, then the return.

And I want to make the most logical choice I possibly can make without making it into something completely different.
And I consider this too, if someone was to believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has came already, it could break their own faith (maybe not break it but have more questions Im sure), it really could, so I think might be the last post I make on this, note for the time being until some future time comes about.

But you have to remember this even though anyone that is a believer waiting on the Lord Jesus Christ to come back, just remember He is already with you right now.

And because people can use the scripture like this, it goes no where. Besides the Scripture I posted in my original post, have scripture that talks about the Lord Coming, and it was for their generation.

Anyway God bless everyone here, and on this site. May the Lord Jesus Christ give you peace and comfort.

I really do want to thank everyone who has posted in the threads I have made.

That's not what I think Peter nor DC was referring to. This generation to them as if Chiliasm would mean that one would see Peter's reference to a day as a 1000 years in reference to Genesis 2:4 and "the generations of the heavens and of the earth" and that he intended that as answer to Matthew 24:3's question. That is they believed that the beginning of Genesis was a Prophecy of the 7 generations of creation.

 

[wolfwint]

Dear MatthewG, post 49 is not really an answer toimy questions.
Bible speaks from a visible return of Christ. Nor in bible we find a hint that he will come invisible back, nor is any hint in the churchhistorie that Jesus came back visible.
So where is coming this teaching from, that Jesus already has come back.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Dear MatthewG, post 49 is not really an answer toimy questions.
Bible speaks from a visible return of Christ. Nor in bible we find a hint that he will come invisible back, nor is any hint in the churchhistorie that Jesus came back visible.
So where is coming this teaching from, that Jesus already has come back.

wolfwint,

This belief is called Preterism and has been around for a very long time. Here is a summary of this false teaching:

The dominant version of preterism says that everything—EVERYTHING—associated with the second coming of Jesus happened in A.D. 70, in connection with the destruction of Jerusalem as an act of judgment on OT Israel. This includes the antichrist, the man of sin, the second coming of Jesus, the rapture, the resurrection, and the judgment day. Everything predicted in Matt. 24 and in the book of Revelation (which is dated c. A.D. 65) was fulfilled at that time (says preterism).

http://jackcottrell.com/notes/the-preterist-view-of-christs-second-coming/ (not endorsing Jack Cottrell).

Preterism originated in the Roman Catholic Church but was later on adopted by Protestants also.

 

[wolfwint]

wolfwint,

This belief is called Preterism and has been around for a very long time. Here is a summary of this false teaching:



http://jackcottrell.com/notes/the-preterist-view-of-christs-second-coming/ (not endorsing Jack Cottrell).

Preterism originated in the Roman Catholic Church but was later on adopted by Protestants also.

Thank you for good information. Now I know why MatthewG cant answer my questions.

 

[MatthewG]

It's a view (Just like other views such as Calvinism/arminianism) that has been around for a long time, but does not make a wrong teaching.

Blessings.

Regardless if see it from a different view or not, your own personal relationship with God, and Jesus Christ is what matters.

The teaching is coming from Jesus Christ, about His return to HIs Disciples/Gather Elect/Destory the Temple/Material REligion, not us... I'm not sure how many more times I'll have to say this.

You can believe Jesus Christ came, you can believe Jesus Christ is still coming, it doesnt matter do you. Do you and live your life, and Love God and Love Others.

I'm really dont have much to add, other than to say, go look at scripture for yourself, and dont believe me, or any one else.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, who is here for you now and wants to help you in your life, and His Father.


When reading the bible always ask, Who, why, what, when,where, and how it may help you as you go through the Holy Bible.

 

[beta]

To MatthewG...I also believe that Jesus' Spirit is always with the true Follower. He said He would send His Spirit when He ascended to heaven....so why are people looking for Him still ? it can only mean those who are still physically waiting.