Not By Works

[valleyofdecision]

I have seen believers fall and fail. They did know God,and I even want to assume he follows them in their backslidden condition.

It makes a difference when we love them and are aware of our own fickleness "there go I,but for the grace of God"

Yep, I agree I have seen many fall and fail, myself included. You make a good case for progressive sanctification and I agree with it. I think a good thread would be this topic. I think they guard this thread, because many people do believe you can lose your salvation about as quick as losing your car keys and for the most shallowest of reasons. Oh he looked a porn twice, oh she fornicated, oh they both said a bad word.

A genuinely saved person will not stay the same way. If they do then they were never saved, or need mentoring.

 

[heartofdavid]

AND you think saying none have answered when they have is honest and not toxic....best thing to do is not address me....I do not mind dialogue and even a little heat, but when one cannot be honest about what is being said....it fires me to the core....and do not for one second assume bitterness for passion and an emphatic stance on the truth....simple solution...

Dude,it's just a discussion OK?

You do not need the attacking. I am not a threat to you.

You can even "win" for all I care.

My deal is concept<> concept.

Go look at my profile at all my friends. What is there, One?
It does not matter to me. This is just a discussion forum. One can bark like a dog (like me) and make believe he did something.
I love to test and challenge doctrine. That is the ONLY reason I am here.

 

[heartofdavid]

Yep, I agree I have seen many fall and fail, myself included. You make a good case for progressive sanctification and I agree with it. I think a good thread would be this topic. I think they guard this thread, because many people do believe you can lose your salvation about as quick as losing your car keys and for the most shallowest of reasons. Oh he looked a porn twice, oh she fornicated, oh they both said a bad word.

A genuinely saved person will not stay the same way. If they do then they were never saved, or need mentoring.

Well there again,you said that a lot better than I could have

 

[dcontroversal]

Is it too much to ask.....honesty.....90% of the time we have to defend what we say because it gets embellished, changed, twisted, things added or completely changed into something we did not say....this thread is about biblical salvation by grace through faith....I get sick of saying the sky is blue only to be accused of saying it is green...because we believe in eternal salvation based upon the work and faith of Christ, and our sins being nailed to the cross while having the righteousness of Christ imputed we get accused of pushing a live as you please or lifestyle of sin.

We get accused of not answering when we answer, we post charts of Greek words and verb tense and get accused of making up the chart ourselves....and the list goes on and on and on.....this is what fires me up...the lack of integrity and honesty...the inability to read something a see what is actually written.....this is why I pour heat sometimes.....it is the one thing I cannot stand the most in this world...to have something attributed to me that I have not said nor implied.....

I have no problem in apologizing openly for firing so heavy upon those who have done this.....cannot we all be honest with what is said without twisting and or embellishing or adding to what is said to imply something not said?

 

[heartofdavid]

Is it too much to ask.....honesty.....90% of the time we have to defend what we say because it gets embellished, changed, twisted, things added or completely changed into something we did not say....this thread is about biblical salvation by grace through faith....I get sick of saying the sky is blue only to be accused of saying it is green...because we believe in eternal salvation based upon the work and faith of Christ, and our sins being nailed to the cross while having the righteousness of Christ imputed we get accused of pushing a live as you please or lifestyle of sin.

We get accused of not answering when we answer, we post charts of Greek words and verb tense and get accused of making up the chart ourselves....and the list goes on and on and on.....this is what fires me up...the lack of integrity and honesty...the inability to read something a see what is actually written.....this is why I pour heat sometimes.....it is the one thing I cannot stand the most in this world...to have something attributed to me that I have not said nor implied.....

I have no problem in apologizing openly for firing so heavy upon those who have done this.....cannot we all be honest with what is said without twisting and or embellishing or adding to what is said to imply something not said?

We are both men of God.
We both love the Lord
If we disagree,it is to disagree as men of God.
I know you are a man of God.

 

[star]

What brings forth my sharp teeth are those who bait and switch and then accuse the object of their bait and switch as being "attacking" with a response.

If it is just a discussion, then keep it within the realm of that. If it is just to bait and switch, argue, embellish, then call it what it is. Call a spade a spade cause a rose by any other name is still a rose.

 

[Magenta]

Mention walking in Holiness and then duck, you will get a thorough teaching on how you are preaching saved by works, what a liar you are, and person attacking galore.

There seems to be a big misunderstanding going on, and it is not helped by failing to comprehend what people are saying, and arguing with people you actually agree with. I have not seen anyone say NOT to do good when a need is put before you. However, those good works do not save; they are not what saves. It'd be nice if the two Davids here would shake hands, or shake the dust off their feet. The first would make more sense

 

[dcontroversal]

There seems to be a big misunderstanding going on, and it is not helped by failing to comprehend what people are saying, and arguing with people you actually agree with. I have not seen anyone say NOT to do good when a need is put before you. However, those good works do not save; they are not what saves. It'd be nice if the two Davids here would shake hands, or shake the dust off their feet. The first would make more sense

I said what I had to say and am not mad......from now on....I will not respond to any post that goes outside what I have said or implied other than to say that is not what I have said or implied....I hold nothing against anyone, nor do I dislike any on this site....their doctrine on the other hand....I will oppose without remorse if it does not pass the biblical smell test.....just saying....

 

[NoNameMcgee]

What brings forth my sharp teeth are those who bait and switch and then accuse the object of their bait and switch as being "attacking" with a response.

If it is just a discussion, then keep it within the realm of that. If it is just to bait and switch, argue, embellish, then call it what it is. Call a spade a spade cause a rose by any other name is still a rose.

it comes from those who have no desire to learn and nothing themself to offer




this isnt a game though

this is a very important... maybe the most important issue (what saves.... NOT OUR WORKS)
and them trying to become noble victims while lying can be damaging to sheep who dont yet know better....


Matthew 18
18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.


_______


may God bless you star

i love the posts of yours ive seen so far

 

[star]

it comes from those who have no desire to learn and nothing themself to offer




this isnt a game though

this is a very important... maybe the most important issue (what saves.... NOT OUR WORKS)
and them trying to become noble victims while lying can be damaging to sheep who dont yet know better....


Matthew 18
18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.


_______


may God bless you star

i love the posts of yours ive seen so far

Thank you.

Misleading or detrimental posts which influence new believers is a very dangerous issue IMHO. We will be held accountable for that as much as we will be held accountable for anything.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Greetings LLH

We are to be imitators of Jesus.
However I would say we are not to place the imitator on a pedestal.
If we do that then can fall foul of seeking their faith and not our own.
I hope I am an imitator of Jesus.

But if anyone said to me that they wanted to be like me I would say "whoa no, stop right there, I know what I'm like and if you truly knew what I'm like you are going to be so disappointed"

Every person has their own walk with God, and God walks with every person in the way he knows what's best for them.

We need to encourage others to establish their own faith in Jesus.

Blessing Bill,

I am grieved how quickly you dismiss the work Christ has done in your life,
how weak and tossed around in the sea that you are no example for others
to be inspired by. Why do you disown the work you say God has done in
your heart like it is nothing, you are like any other sinner, not worthy to be
listened to or regarded, a hypocrite who fails at too many levels to be a help.

Everyone has their own walk, but leaders are there to demonstrate leadership,
to show the fruit of the very gospel that is preached and to help others in
their need and weakness.

Are leaders, stealing, commiting adultery, lying, self serving, bearing false testimony,
not honouring their parents, dishonouring the word, commiting blasphemy, greedy, self
indulgent individuals. Now some are and have been caught doing exactly that.

But Paul puts a model for leaders and how they are to behave. Or is this part of the
bible been excluded in your version and it would be evil to suggest these standards and
encouragements are of the Lord?

This is not exactly rocket science of church governance and obvious leadership.
Maybe people are so jaded, only hypocrites run churches now!!!!!!!

Maybe this is the level of church ministry you are into. I do not recognise it
unfortunately, and would never be part of church with such unspecified standards.

 

[Isny]

Thank you.

Misleading or detrimental posts which influence new believers is a very dangerous issue IMHO. We will be held accountable for that as much as we will be held accountable for anything.

Star, you are so right!

 

[Ralph-]

God chastens those he loves when they are disobedient,simple.

Can you provide a real example from your own life? Just curious. Not a trick question.

 

[Ralph-]

Matthew 18
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Hey, NoName, can you see the anti-once saved always saved in what Jesus said? Read carefully, it's there.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Blessing Bill,

I am grieved how quickly you dismiss the work Christ has done in your life,
how weak and tossed around in the sea that you are no example for others
to be inspired by. Why do you disown the work you say God has done in
your heart like it is nothing, you are like any other sinner, not worthy to be
listened to or regarded, a hypocrite who fails at too many levels to be a help.

Everyone has their own walk, but leaders are there to demonstrate leadership,
to show the fruit of the very gospel that is preached and to help others in
their need and weakness.

Are leaders, stealing, commiting adultery, lying, self serving, bearing false testimony,
not honouring their parents, dishonouring the word, commiting blasphemy, greedy, self
indulgent individuals. Now some are and have been caught doing exactly that.

But Paul puts a model for leaders and how they are to behave. Or is this part of the
bible been excluded in your version and it would be evil to suggest these standards and
encouragements are of the Lord?

This is not exactly rocket science of church governance and obvious leadership.
Maybe people are so jaded, only hypocrites run churches now!!!!!!!

Maybe this is the level of church ministry you are into. I do not recognise it
unfortunately, and would never be part of church with such unspecified standards.

Say! That's a rather LARGE portion of unwarranted condemnation you've dished out there!

 

[Ralph-]

Are you dense Ralph....the source is Strong's click on 1961....and wake up

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]◄ 1961. epimenó ►[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Strong's Concordance

epimenó: to stay on​

Original Word: ἐπιμένω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epimenó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-men'-o)
Short Definition: I remain, tarry, persist in
Definition: (a) I remain, tarry, (b) I remain in, persist in.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


​

Maybe I am dense. Just show me where it says the verb is in the present tense in Romans 6:1. I guess I'm just missing it in the links you provided.

My source says it's in the future tense.

[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table_maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_strongsnt"]1961 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_translit"]epimenōmen[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_greek2"]ἐπιμένωμεν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_eng"]Shall we continue[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_cms_table_pos"]V-PSA-1P <-----Part of Speech: Verb

Tense: Present
Mood: Subjunctive
Voice: Active

Person: 1st Person
Number: Plural[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

In your little fable here.....I mean.....table (just being funny, lol), how is the last column directly connected to the usage of the word in Romans 6:1 in the source you cite? It's an honest, serious question. Maybe I'm just missing it in the links. I want to know why my source and your source do not agree.

 

[stonesoffire]

Go back and reread it with the understandung it is not your job to minimize the destruction one suffers for DEPARTING.

It clearly,clearly showcases shipwrecked believers.
Read it for what it is. It does not need any help.

But yes the ENTIRE NT is Gods word for us,and for us to stay in the faith,not just timothy.

It isn't called Hebrews for no reason HD. Written to Jewish believers that are going through persecutions. Admonishing them not to return to the law, for there is no sacrifice for sin available. Sprinkling of blood on our conscience is the way we are cleansed when we fail.

But, I want to address something that gets missed about enduring to the end. The scriptures that are expressing these warnings are written too to believers in troubles and trials of their faith. The enduring is to remain in ones first love throughout their problems.

Then read the scriptures with this in mind. Temptation to complain against the Lord does come with persecution. It's good to remember that these things happen to all, and we aren't living for this world anyway.

Stay hot with burning love for Jesus. This is what David means. No fear then of being shipwrecked in faith.

 

[stonesoffire]

His message is " ha ha,i can sin all i want and i do. My salvation is secure"

As if that is something to TEACH?

You totally missed what was said!

 

[stonesoffire]

I hope all is listening to our President. He just proclaimed In God We Trust!

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey, NoName, can you see the anti-once saved always saved in what Jesus said? Read carefully, it's there.

Not hardly.....maybe you should open your eyes and not read what is not in the text......and who exactly is he addressing it to and who exactly is he defending.....your cake taking never ceases to amaze.....