Is Jesus's return imminent?

[Nehemiah6]

I disagree. That's an assumption, I think they are one and the same event.

They watched him go from the Mount of Olives. The Angel said he would return in the same way.
Zechariah prophesied he would return there (Mount of Olives) physically.

Well the angel was not there to teach the apostles about the Resurrection/Rapture. Since they had just finished asking Christ about the restoration of the kingdom of Israel, His descent to the Mount of Olives was stated (indirectly) without further elaboration. We know from other Scriptures that it will split in two at that time, and many other details connected with the redemption and restoration of Israel.

However, the important and CRITICAL point which too many Christians fail to remember is that before Christ can come WITH His saints (and angels) He must first come FOR His saints so that the Marriage of the Lamb is accomplished. Therefore the Resurrection/Rapture must precede the second coming by at least seven years. Please note what happens at the second coming:

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 14,15).

As to the OP, the coming of Christ for His Bride (the Church) has always been imminent.

 

[MarcR]

The anti-Christ... Tribulation

I'm pretty sure he'll return in Sept, but I haven't figured out what year yet

I believe we are living in the time of the 5th Seal,

I agree.

I believe that the Church will be taken up after the 6th seal is opened, but before the 7th.

Rev 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
KJV

The Church can be taken up at any time. I believe that before the 'Man of Sin' is revealled the war of Eze Ch 38-39 must occur and the third temple will be built.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

Just a note to everyone. When the Lord returns for His Church he does not return to the earth, we go and meet Him in the sky.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

Before anything even begins there has to be a Temple in Jerusalem. Daniel's 70th week confirms this.

Daniel 9:27.......In the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

2Thes.1:3,4........Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I've seen some people say that the son of perdition is going to be a Muslim, but, I seriously doubt even Islam would be stupid enough to believe that guy will be God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Before anything even begins there has to be a Temple in Jerusalem. Daniel's 70th week confirms this.

Daniel 9:27.......In the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

2Thes.1:3,4........Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I've seen some people say that the son of perdition is going to be a Muslim, but, I seriously doubt even Islam would be stupid enough to believe that guy will be God.[/QUOTE]

Just an observation based upon the highlighted comment....

a. Whomever it is does not matter...
b. God sends strong delusion and ALL regardless of color, creed, religious persuasion or lack thereof will believe the lie if they will not receive the love of the truth....

MY view....based upon history, study of the false gods and what the last three popes have done<--Bowed to and kissed the Koran

1st Beast <---12th Imam/Madhi
2nd Beast <---False prophet/Last POPE

 

[ComeLordJesus]

Before anything even begins there has to be a Temple in Jerusalem. Daniel's 70th week confirms this.

Daniel 9:27.......In the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

2Thes.1:3,4........Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I've seen some people say that the son of perdition is going to be a Muslim, but, I seriously doubt even Islam would be stupid enough to believe that guy will be God.[/QUOTE]

Just an observation based upon the highlighted comment....

a. Whomever it is does not matter...
b. God sends strong delusion and ALL regardless of color, creed, religious persuasion or lack thereof will believe the lie if they will not receive the love of the truth....

MY view....based upon history, study of the false gods and what the last three popes have done<--Bowed to and kissed the Koran

1st Beast <---12th Imam/Madhi
2nd Beast <---False prophet/Last POPE

1st Beast <---12th Imam/Madhi
2nd Beast <---False prophet/Last POPE​

​

So you believe the these are the beasts in Rev.? If so how did you come to this conclusion?

 

[notuptome]

Before anything even begins there has to be a Temple in Jerusalem. Daniel's 70th week confirms this.

I have heard that the mosque on the temple mount may not be sitting on the site of the old temple and that the Jews are ready to build a new temple right next to the mosque as this is a more precise location of the temple. They are ready to seize any opportunity to begin construction.

I've seen some people say that the son of perdition is going to be a Muslim, but, I seriously doubt even Islam would be stupid enough to believe that guy will be God.

Does seem very unlikely that the Jews will follow anyone who is not of Jewish heritage. Ishmael's children are not going to be readily received.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Before anything even begins there has to be a Temple in Jerusalem. Daniel's 70th week confirms this.

Daniel 9:27.......In the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

2Thes.1:3,4........Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I've seen some people say that the son of perdition is going to be a Muslim, but, I seriously doubt even Islam would be stupid enough to believe that guy will be God.

Islam has it's own eschatology, it's own messiah-like figure called the Mahdi, and it's own version of Jesus (Isa)

In Islamic teaching Isa (who they claim is our Jesus) will return to the earth (though he never died) The Muslim "Jesus" (Isa) will return and deny he ever said he was God. He will join together with the Mahdi. He will tear down all the crosses and teach people about Islam and eventually direct people to worship the Mahdi.

Islam also has it's version of Antichrist. (The one-yed Dajjal) According to Islam, the Dajjal will return and claim to be Jesus Christ. He’ll claim to be divine and He’ll fight for Israel against Muslims. The belief is that the end cannot come until Muslims fight the Jews.

Forgive me for posting Islamic text but: Sahih Muslim Book 41 Hadith 6985

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me;come and kill him;
but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews."

 

[ComeLordJesus]

I have heard that the mosque on the temple mount may not be sitting on the site of the old temple and that the Jews are ready to build a new temple right next to the mosque as this is a more precise location of the temple. They are ready to seize any opportunity to begin construction.

Ernest L. Martin wrote a good book on the subject called "The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot" here is a link the Associates For Scriptural Knowledge site and where Mr. Martin believed the Temple really sat.

http://askelm.com/tdetail.htm

​

Does seem very unlikely that the Jews will follow anyone who is not of Jewish heritage. Ishmael's children are not going to be readily received.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

There have been a lot of people claiming they are from the lost tribes of Israel, so who knows who The Anti-christ might claim he is.

 

[dcontroversal]

So you believe the these are the beasts in Rev.? If so how did you come to this conclusion?

The study of

a. The bible
b. The history of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and what Rome devolves into
c. The false gods of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and what Zeus is at the end of the age

 

[ComeLordJesus]

I agree.

I believe that the Church will be taken up after the 6th seal is opened, but before the 7th.

Rev 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
KJV

The Church can be taken up at any time. I believe that before the 'Man of Sin' is revealled the war of Eze Ch 38-39 must occur and the third temple will be built.

I believe that before the 'Man of Sin' is revealled the war of Eze Ch 38-39 must occur and the third temple will be built.​

Is this Gog and Magog that starts Armegeddon? Will this be Russia coming against Israel?​

 

[ComeLordJesus]

The study of

a. The bible
b. The history of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and what Rome devolves into
c. The false gods of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and what Zeus is at the end of the age

Does this make any sense to you?

First Beast of Revelation 13

 

[Speak2Me]

What has to happen before Jesus's return is imminent?

1Thess 4:13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,[SUP]d[/SUP] that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

That in red.

 

[Locutus]

Nope......

 

[Ahwatukee]

I agree.

I believe that the Church will be taken up after the 6th seal is opened, but before the 7th.

Rev 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
KJV

The Church can be taken up at any time. I believe that before the 'Man of Sin' is revealled the war of Eze Ch 38-39 must occur and the third temple will be built.[/QUOTE]

Good day MarcR,

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are three sets of seven judgments which make up the entire wrath of God and should not be divided.

That the Lamb/Jesus is the One opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets, followed by the bowls demonstrates that the Lord is responsible for their resulting fatalities and destruction. Jesus is the One who "tramples the wine press of the wrath of God Almighty" and it is through the seals, trumpets and bowls that He will accomplish this.

In Rev.6:17 where the announcement is made:

"For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

The words "has come" in the verse above is in the Greek aorist tense, which is referring to the entire wrath of God, i.e. the seals that have already taken place, as well as the trumpets and bowls that will follow. The aorist tense is like looking at His time of wrath from a helicopter view where the entire parade is seen from beginning to end all at the same time, opposed to watching from street level where it only it is only partially seen, which is what you are doing. To be clear, the announcement includes the seals that will have been opened prior to the announcement, as well as the plagues of wrath that will follow the announcement.

In addition, the results of the first four seals will equal a fourth of the earth's population being killed, which according to our present world population that would be over 1.7 billion people killed within the first 3 1/2 years just by the previous seals alone and Jesus is the One responsible because He is the One opening them.

The 1st seal symbolically represents the emergence of the antichrist. Following him peace is taken from the earth so that people kill each other, then the black horse of famine and finally the 4th seal resulting in all of those deaths. All of this is apart of God's wrath, which we the church are not appointed to suffer and therefore cannot be on the earth during that time. The church must and will be gathered prior to that first seal of God's wrath being opened.

This is also supported, which I have mentioned many times here, that from Revelation 1 thru 3 the word "ekklesia" translated "church" is used 18 times. Within those same chapters we do not see the word "Hagios" translated as "Saints." Likewise, from chapter 4 onwards we only see the word Hagios/Saints, but the word ekklesia/church never appears again in the narrative. This is a clue in God's word demonstrating a distinction being made between church and saints. In relation to this in Rev.4:1 we have "a voice that sounds like a trumpet saying 'come up here and I will show you what must take place after this'," which I believe is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up and which is why we no longer see the word ekkklesia in the narrative of God's wrath. If both the words church and Saints were used interchangeably throughout Revelation, then it would not be relevant. But the fact that they are separated, not being used together, as well as the disappearance of the word ekklesia/church tells me that the church is gone and that prior to the opening of the first seal.

Rev 7:9-10
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. KJV

The group above is not identified as being the church.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands" - Rev.7:9-10

"Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”
“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Previously, John was told to write letters to the seven churches. Now an elder is asking him who this great multitude are in white ropes. The very fact that the elder is asking John who they are would demonstrate that this group is not the church which John previously wrote to. It is a different group and they are never referred to as the church. Not only that but John doesn't know who they are. As the elder proclaimed, this group are those who will have come out of the great tribulation. I might add that this is a vision of those who will come out of the great tribulation, which from John's time frame in Revelation hasn't begun yet. We know this because Rev.13:5-7 tells us that during that last 42 months (last 3 1/2 years) the beast will make war against the saints and conquer them. Therefore, this is a vision of those white robed saints who will be killed during that time. This is the same group that John sees as beheaded and who are resurrected in Rev.20:4-6.

This group in white robes from every tribe, nation, people and language (Gentiles) are not the church, but will be those who are killed during the great tribulation which is the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period and are also resurrected after Christ returns to the earth.

The Church can be taken up at any time.

Another thing to consider is that, if the church is not gathered until after the 6th seal, then the gathering of the church would no longer be imminent and that because we would see the first seal rider on the white horse emerge who represents the antichrist. And the church would also see the second seal rider on the red horse the result being peace being taken from the earth which the church would also be affected by. Following that would be the black horse representing world-wide famine, which would also involve and affect the church. And finally the pale green horse representing Death with Hades following close behind, which results in a fourth of the earth's population being killed. There would be no imminence of the Lord's return because those previous seals and their results would be signs that we could watch for. If I was here on the earth during that time, after the events of the 6th seal with the earthquake and the sky being rolled up like a scroll I would then say, "Aha, the Lord is now going to gather His church!" No imminency!

I hope that you will take these points into consideration regarding to the timing of the gathering of the church in relation to seals 1 thru 6 as belonging to God's wrath.

 

[OtherWay210]

What has to happen before Jesus's return is imminent?

Just read Matthew 24 without commentary . 2 Thess 2.

It happens when God says so. No one is given the moment .
but Christians are given the signs to watch for .

Satan comes first, then the real Christ after .

Arnold Murray of the Shepherds Chapel and Mark13records have complete studies on this
if you wanted help............

 

[OtherWay210]

there is a lot of details given in the bible that you will Not learn on a forum.
best to study by reading the bible and pray .

 

[Adstar]

If you are saying that the gathering of the church takes place at the same time when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom, then that is not possible. Reason being is that the entire wrath of God will take place prior to and leading up to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Believers have been credited with the righteousness of Christ and have been reconciled to God. Jesus also took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Because of this and because it is written in scripture, believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath (1 Thes.1:10), Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath (1 Thes.5:9), and he promises to keep us out of that time of wrath (Rev.3:10). Therefore, the church will not enter into that time of wrath, which means that the church must be gathered prior to the beginning of God's wrath, which is initiated by the opening of the first seal.



Both scripture's above are regarding the gathering of the church. The scripture below is not referring to the same event as the two above. But is referring to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. They are two different events and two different trumpets. The scripture below is when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, which takes place after God's wrath. The two above take place before God's wrath.



Matthew 24: KJV
{29} ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

You are making the same mistake as may do by pigeonholing the word "Trumpet." The trumpet in 1 Thes.4:16 is not the same as the great trumpet in Matt.24:31. They are different trumpets. People also do this with the "last trumpet" interpreting it as the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments. The word "trumpet" is not specific to any single event. That fact is, that there many different types of trumpets in scripture. The trumpet of 1 Thes.4:16 and 1 Cor.15:52 are not the same trumpet as the trumpet in Matt.24:31 and that because you would be putting the church through the entire wrath of God by interpreting it as such.

I believe my Trumpet point is spot on and correct.. The Last trumpet is the Last trumpet.. So if the last trumpet of the rapture is true ( and it is) then there would not be a trumpet blast on the day of the LORD.. Since there is a trumpet blast on the Day of the LORD the only reasonable conclusion is the pre-tribulation rapture theology is wrong.. The rapture must happen on the Day of the LORD and the trumpet sounding on the Day of the Lord must be the Last trump..

 

[Adstar]

Just a note to everyone. When the Lord returns for His Church he does not return to the earth, we go and meet Him in the sky.

You have provided no scriptural support for this...

People have already provided scripture that says Jesus will return to the earth in this thread..

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

Jesus can return of two forms:

1 - He can call us to Him (through the death). This is imminent, given that we can die at whatever time.
2 - He can come to rapture His Church. This only happens three and half days after the first half of the seventieth week:

• "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2Thes 2.1-4).
  
• "And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them." (Rev 11.11,12).