Has Jesus Christ returned?

[gotime]

One can understand how one might get the idea that Jesus was coming in their day. However Paul addressed this very issue here:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul does not want them to be shaken by this why?

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


Daniel and Revelation both reveal what Paul has said here, that the coming of the Lord has not yet happened because it is withheld till the man of sin be revealed.

Paul is saying, Just because we say the day of the lord is coming context clearly shows he is talking about Jesus coming back see vs 8. It is held of till some events happen.

 

[HeraldtheNews]

MatthewG don't be shaken or distracted by people who miss Christ's presence in the Spirit...that is biblical teaching. Coming back in the end of the age is another story....does not away with the fact that He is in true Believers NOW....getting them ready for the Wedding.

This is true-- While we may be shaken by earthquakes and other things in life, true believers in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, shall never be shaken-- and when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, wasn't it HIS Presence? So, Jesus never really left. But, He will return, likely sooner than later--this is a Christian consensus. I keep hearing in my mind; in the Spirit-- "Judgement day is near," and I believe it is. May we all rest in the humble assurance of the perfect offering of the Lord in the New Covenant, confirmed by repentance and a faithful life ...

"Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken." (Psalm 62:6; NIV)

"I know the LORD is always with me. I will not be shaken, for he is right beside me." (Psalm 16:6; NLT)

[h=1]1 Thessalonians 3:3 The Voice (VOICE)[/h][FONT=&quot]3 so that you won’t be shaken by the sufferings and wither under this stress that we know lies ahead. (The Voice Bible)

I know you are a younger lady, beta, so you might not want to listen to this Christian Rock-n-roll--they are shaking up the younger generation anyway--

<span class="text 1Thess-3-3" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;">[video=youtube;9BJhOgb-unI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BJhOgb-unI[/video][/FONT]

 

[prove-all]

My view of the world may not be exactly the same as yours is,
and that is understandable. I don't believe that world is in a mess.

Well the country I see and live in has most ashuredly lost it's moral values.
“Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse” (2Timothy 3:13)

In the future ahead for man, All will know the truth. No more religious confusion.
Eyes will be opened to the truth. Humans will become teachable and not sick.

People will start living God’s way—the way of outgoing concern for others—
the way of the true values—the way of peace, of happiness, of well-being, of joy.

Crime, sickness, disease, pain and suffering, gone. Poverty, ignorance banished.
Smiles on people’s faces—faces that radiate. Wild animals tame. Air pollution,
water pollution, soil pollution, gone. Crystal pure water to drink; clean, crisp,
pure air to breathe; rich black soil where deserts, mountains and seas formerly
were, producing full-flavored foods, and fantastic beauty in flowers, shrubs, trees.

 

[prove-all]

That is what I want to say to some of those who say a thousand years, are literal....

Even aside from the silly A day is like a thousand years, and thousand years is like a day.

My guess if it was silly and useless, it would probably not be in the bible.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, II Timothy 3:16

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life;
and these are they which testify of Me. John 5:39
-
The phrase "A day is like a thousand years, and thousand years is like a day".
I find the only place this verse fits correctly, is in the model of the weekly cycle.

Man: from Adam to us, it's almost been 6000 years acording to the bible.
Man: forced to follow Gods way for 1000 years in the mill., last 1000 years.

Satan- 6000 years [working at] decieving the world.
Satan- 1000 years [forced rest] from swaying mans minds.

The 6 days[6000 years mans way-mans government] toil work on earth
The 7th day Sabbath rest , [1000 years reign-Gods government] promised rest.

In Hebrews 4:4, 11, the seventh day of the week pictures a type of the peaceful “rest”
on Earth which will follow Christ’s return. This time of Christ’s rule on Earth will follow
this present age of human misrule and senseless warfare. It specifically prophesied
to be a thousand years. Revelation 20:4.

Since the last “day” of God’s plan is 1,000 years, then it logically follows that
the preceding six “days” would amount to 6,000 years—a total of 7,000 years.

Not entering Gods rest was [is] connected with the seventh day Sabbath.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/132104-keep-4th-command-2.html#post2506540

"the Feast of Trumpets" and Christs return , post #240
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/39430-myths-realities-about-easter-12.html

"the Feast of Tabernacles" and the mill. , post #243
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...hs-realities-about-easter-13.html#post1952339,

Mortal Nations will be forced to keep the Feast of Tabernacles, from year to year,
when Christ is ruling with a rod of iron! With no rain for punishment.

 

[prove-all]

Luke 21:22 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are
written may be fulfilled. (The End of Jeruslem / The end of the Age of those days)

We do find in other bible passages, where it uses the "day for a year" concept.

For it is [the day] of the Lord's vengeance,
and [the year] of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...he-day-lord-oethe-day-yhwh-4.html#post3344491
-
The second coming is in actuality a continuation of the first.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...who-do-we-believe-god-man-62.html#post3364355
-
The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood,
[Before the coming] of the great and awesome day of the Lord.

-When did the sun turn to darkness, and the moon into blood?

In over 30 prophecies in the Old and New Testaments, the period of Christ’s supernatural
intervention and wrath at mankind’s sins is called the Day of the Lord! The “day of the Lord”
refers to a year-long punishment that culminates with the return of Christ.

At the third battle—the third woe and last trumpet—all mankind will be saved from extinction
only by a miracle from God. If God did not personally intervene in this last climactic war, men
would destroy the last vestige of human life from the face of the Earth!

 

[prove-all]

Because the view to be seen by me, is like "The world is fine, it will never end,
there will always be people here and no end to any generation that comes and goes." -

Doomsday Clock Ticks Ahead: Two Minutes to Midnight
The minute hand of the symbolic Doomsday Clock was moved forward
on January 25, bringing the time to just two minutes until “midnight”,

The symbolic hour of global nuclear destruction. Now the clock is
once again at 11:58, for only the second time in its 70-year history.

“The greatest risks last year arose in the nuclear realm,”
the Bulletin said in its report about the latest time change.
Another reason for its move was “a breakdown in the international order.”
https://thebulletin.org/2018-doomsday-clock-statement

 

[prove-all]

If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information;
this inspiration from? They were taught by Jesus Christ Himself.

If the Apostles where wrong and they misunderstood Jesus Christ,
should we trust anything that they said?

When the disciples asked Jesus if He would restore the government of God
over Israel in their day, what was His reply? Acts 1:6-7.

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons,
which the Father hath put in his own power. Acts 1:7
-
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven,
nor the Son, but only the Father. Mark 13:32

God does not intervene in world affairs without first
revealing His intentions to His prophets. Amos 3:7

The apostles did not understand the general time frame of God’s plan while Christ was on
Earth with them, and for many years thereafter. At first, they thought God would establish
His rule in their lifetimes.

But before they died, they understood Christ would return at a much later date. Peter said,
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of coming again]..but is longsuffering…”
2Peter 3:9. God is patient. He has refrained from intervening in world affairs for 6,000 years.

For these six millennia, mankind has been proving the inarguable truth that the ways of man,
apart from God, bring nothing but suffering and death. He would come again—this time to
rescue humanity from annihilation, to set up the Kingdom of God, and to bring us lasting peace!

We can study the Book of Daniel

The living God was its author. The message was transmitted to Daniel by God’s angel.
Daniel put to writing, to be preserved until our time, what he heard. …

God had given him the special talent of understanding “all visions and dreams”Dan 1:17
It is God who reveals secrets! It is His interpretation of the dream—not Daniel’s (2:28)

there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets,and maketh known to
the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the (latter days)” (Daniel 2:28)
-
8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord,
what shall be the end of these things?

9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are
(closed up) and (sealed) till the time of (the end).
-
4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time
of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel chastened himself before God gave him those secrets(Daniel 10:3-5, 12).
Those secrets opened Daniel to Satan’s most vicious attack!

The prince of Persia is Satan.(Daniel 10:18-21). Satan fought against the
two great archangels, Michael and Gabriel, for 21 days (Daniel 10:13).

Daniel said"And I heard, but I understood not"closed and sealed till our time.
-

“And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall
never be destroyed … but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms,
and it shall stand for ever” (Dan. 2:44).

“All these kingdoms”refers to those four world-ruling kingdoms represented
by the great image. In other words, the kingdoms, or governments,of this world
will be consumed and replaced by the Kingdom of God on earth.

When Christ returns as supreme Ruler, the governments of this world will cease to exist.
They will be replaced by God’s Kingdom—His government—and administered by His Family!

To “stand for ever” it will, of necessity, be a Kingdom of immortals, not mortals.
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:
repent ye, and believe the gospel.” That is, believe the good news!

But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever,
even for ever and ever.” To possess it for ever, the saints will have to be immortal!

 

[prove-all]

(Because there would be no greater tribulation than that time)
(How can something that is to be so great as far as tribulation would seem to be,
that would never be around again come back again?)

You miss understand this passage.

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of
the world to this time, no, [nor ever shall be]. And except those days should
be shortened, there should no flesh be saved [Moffatt: saved alive]:
but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened” (Matthew 24:21-22).

The Revised Standard Version says “no human being would be saved.…”
Jesus was talking about all the inhabitants of the Earth, not just those in Jerusalem.

[nor ever shall be]

So do you think the tribulation at the temple distruction, back then in Jerusalem,
was worse then wwi or wwii , the suffering and deaths, and distruction recorded?

This is talking about a time when the annihilation of all human life would be possible.
Jesus Christ is about to return to Earth—to stop mankind from destroying himself.
-
God revealed to Habakkuk a vision of the most terrifying time ever to
afflict this Earth! He saw nuclear war and the consequences very vividly!
-
The book of Amos,Nuclear bombs are going to be dropped on cities! (Amos 5:1-3).
“Drops of dew,” or nuclear fallout, certainly will “tear in pieces” human flesh.
Nuclear warfare is coming! Many Bible scriptures tell us that! We can’t hide from it.

By His direct intervention, Christ will cut short the days of man’s rule over man,
which would otherwise lead to the destruction of all human life!

Also we find in the 14th chapter of Zechariah: “And this shall be the plague with
which the [Eternal] will smite all the people that wage war against Jerusalem:

their flesh shall rot while they are still on their feet, their eyes shall rot in
their sockets, and their tongues shall rot in their mouths.”

This rotting of their flesh off their bones will happen almost instantaneously
—while they are still on their feet. This happens when Christ returns.
-


What about The Psalm 83 Alliance?
Concerning this psalm, the Anchor Bible reads, “History transmits no record
of the national crisis when the nations enumerated in this psalm formed a
league to wipe out Israel ….”


Lange’s Commentary points out, “The 10 nations who are here enumerated
as being combined against Israel, are never mentioned elsewhere as enemies
allied at the same time and for the purpose of annihilating Israel.”


Other commentaries make the same point. This also must be an end-time prophecy!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Prove-All,

This is talking about a time when the annihilation of all human life would be possible.
Jesus Christ is about to return to Earth—to stop mankind from destroying himself.

What Nehemiah is saying is that, once that great tribulation takes place, it ends with Jesus returning to the earth to end the age, never to be repeated, the end of human government.

Also, Jesus will not be returning to the earth to keep mankind from destroying himself, but from God's wrath which is what will be destroying the earth and decimating the population of the earth. Armageddon will take place, because God will have them gathered there through those three evil spirits who gather all the kings and their armies to fight against the Lord as He returns to the earth to end the age.

 

[Locutus]

Of course he has according to Hebrews he came in the 1st century:

Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Heb 10:37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.

 

[prove-all]

Of course he has according to Hebrews he came in the 1st century:

Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many,
will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Heb 10:37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.

whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things,
which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.


you have not idea what "restoration of all things" means

 

[Locutus]

I don't expect an Herbert Armstrong follower to have any clue about much at all.

 

[MatthewG]

Great, scriptures, and the way you see things prove-all thanks for taking time to do so. You can believe how you want to. Share what you want to.

It's very rare for many people to accept the whole bible being completed already.
I still will always believe that Jesus Christ has returned, my beliefs that the bible is completely completed there is nothing more left to be done other that to come to the knowledge and truth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And He is (our King of Kings Lord of Lords) right here with us right now living with-in each and every believer, governing over them by the spirit, as I've stated from the never ending kingdom thread; http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/163040-never-ending-heavenly-kingdom.html

 

[Ahwatukee]

Great, scriptures, and the way you see things prove-all thanks for taking time to do so. You can believe how you want to. Share what you want to.

It's very rare for many people to accept the whole bible being completed already.
I still will always believe that Jesus Christ has returned, my beliefs that the bible is completely completed there is nothing more left to be done other that to come to the knowledge and truth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And He is (our King of Kings Lord of Lords) right here with us right now living with-in each and every believer, governing over them by the spirit, as I've stated from the never ending kingdom thread; http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/163040-never-ending-heavenly-kingdom.html

I'm so thankful to God that His promises are real and literal, that there is going to be a literal gathering of the church, a literal wedding of the Lamb in heaven, a literal millennial kingdom where those who are resurrected will literally rule with Him during that literal thousand years on this present earth. And after the great white throne judgment, the literal and real city New Jerusalem with all of its dimensions, foundations, gates, precious stones where the Lord went to prepare literal dwelling places for believers and a new earth, where there will be no more pain, sorrow, crying or death.

What a sad understanding and expectation preterist's have regarding the promises that God has made to us and all that we will inherit.

 

[Ahwatukee]

It's very rare for many people to accept the whole bible being completed already.
I still will always believe that Jesus Christ has returned, my beliefs that the bible is completely completed there is nothing more left to be done other that to come to the knowledge and truth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The above is preterism talking, not God's word. In regards to God's literal promises preterism can be compared to a little girls tea party, no real guests, no real tea and no real pastries. Just pretend.

 

[MatthewG]

All you need is Jesus Christ, nothing more nothing less. You dont have to see anything happen, just believe on the one God sent.

John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me."

Love God, and Love Others.

 

[TMS]

To counter the stand of the Reformers, the Catholic Church launched the counter-reformation spearheaded by the Jesuit Order. The doctrines of Preterism and Futurism, published by Alcasar and Ribera, two Jesuit priests, in 1585, redefined the reformation position on the Antichrist and shifted the emphasis away from the papacy to the Greek king Antiochus Epiphanus IV and to some tyrant who would persecute the Jews some time in the future.

Here is a diagram to help us understand how these false interpretations were created and spread. In this diagram, you can see that the 1260 years of the Dark Ages was the period of papal supremacy prophesied in [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Daniel [/FONT]and [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Revelation[/FONT].
According to futurism, the Antichrist is still to come. According to preterism, the Antichrist was in the past. However, this is not Biblical, as Jesus spoke in [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Matthew 24[/FONT] of the great apostasy taking place in the future. Both of these false systems disagree with the reformers’ belief that the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy is taking place throughout history.

 

[Ahwatukee]

All you need is Jesus Christ, nothing more nothing less. You dont have to see anything happen, just believe on the one God sent.

John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me."

Love God, and Love Others.

To be in Christ is to believe His word. To have faith in it. One can say he believes in Christ all he wants, but if he doesn't believe in His word then he is not truly believing in Him.

 

[MatthewG]

So what do you think about it?

 

[MattG]

Do you trust what the Apostles said about Jesus Christ return?

The apostles, fully expected, and taught and encouraged, believers in their day to believe that Jesus Christ was coming back to them then, on his way, that it was gonna happen soon, and quickly.

If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information; this inspiration from? They were taught by Jesus Christ Himself.


If the Apostles where wrong and they misunderstood Jesus Christ, should we trust anything that they said?


If Jesus Christ Apostles where wrong about when they said He would return, How can we trust anything about the bible has said?


Well They were not wrong, they were inspired by God, and the holy spirit, and they where telling the truth.​

I'm gonna share some scripture about where it talks about the Lord's coming back then in their day whom were being wrote to, it is up to your own decision to either accept all this information as true or false, and ask questions if you wish.


James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand (near).


9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[a] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! Who is the Judge?


Hebrews (Written to Jewish Converts) 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. (The same Day that Jesus Christ is talking about Matthew 24)
26 For if we sin (Deny the Faith/stop having faith in Christ) willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 27: Is talking about the coming judgement for those who leave the faith or just deny it, as well as the same day that Jesus Christ is talking about in Matthew 24)


35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:


37 “For yet a little while,
And He[f] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the[g] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”[h] Who will come?


1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Jesus Christ is the will of God).


18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)


28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.


1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we (they) shall be like him; for we (they) shall see him as he is.


1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall-(will soon short period of time) be revealed:


1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd (Jesus's return) shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


1 Peter 4:5 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. Who is coming to Judge?


1 Peter 4: 7 But the end (End of the Jewish temple, covenant, geneologies) of all things is at hand (near): be ye (them) therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.


Luke 21:22 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (The End of Jeruslem / The end of the Age of those days)


Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall-(short period of time) be revealed in us.




Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.


12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand (near/judgement day): let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


2 Timothy 4:6 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand (paul's death was near at hand).

Anything has to with at it's at hand deals with being near. It's like if you have your phone near you, it's at hand and ready to be grabbed.




Do you think any of this would have been true for them back then? Or do you think that Jesus Christ will still come to us now or was it to them then?

for fun.