Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

Prov910 · Feb 5, 2018

Baptism required? What's the bible have to say. That's always a good place to start.

29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” (Acts 126:29-31)

So if baptism is required I guess we should change this passage to read, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and be baptized, and you will be saved."

I'll give Zondervan a call to have this passage changed. We sure don't want the bible to be misleading people. /sarcasm

hornetguy · Feb 5, 2018

Prov910 said:

Sarcasm notwithstanding, I agree with you.... we should believe in Jesus... and what he commanded us to do. Right?

so.... no need to contact Zondervan.... you can get it straight from the Teacher himself....

Prov910 · Feb 5, 2018

I happen to believe in baptism. It is an outward act we can do to symbolize our conversion and our faith. That's why I chose to be baptized, and why I encourage others to be baptized as well. I think it's a good idea, but I have my doubts as to whether it's a *requirement* for salvation. I think a person of faith receives salvation through the grace of God, not through their act of being baptized. /jmho

8 For it is by grace you have been saved,through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works,so that no one can boast. (Eph 2:8–9)

If baptism was a requirement, wouldn't passages like this one from Ephesians mention it too? Does God's grace to us depend upon our own works—baptism?

Donmech · Feb 5, 2018

I think a lot of people get the wrong idea when those of us who do not believe that baptism is essential to salvation say it is not required. To be clear, by no means do we seek to minimize the importance of being scripturally baptized. It is very, very important and commanded, however, the rub comes when men try to incorporate baptism into the gospel of salvation. This is where I draw a very distinct line. No matter how important and clearly commanded, baptism is only for the saved believer. Which means baptism can only occur after one has been saved. Think about it, why would the unsaved be required to be obedient? They are not. Baptism can only follow salvation. This does not minimize baptism at all, rather puts it into the proper perspective.

Jabberjaw · Feb 5, 2018

Mark 16:16 KJV
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The book says "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"

It doesn't say believeth only, the "and" is in the Greek text and requires both operands on both sides of it to be true or it is all false. It is a logical conjugation.
If one truly believes they would be baptized, to not be baptized is to not believe, it is what the text says must be done to be saved

preston39 · Feb 5, 2018

Prov910 said:

Baptism required? What's the bible have to say. That's always a good place to start.

29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” (Acts 126:29-31)

So if baptism is required I guess we should change this passage to read, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and be baptized, and you will be saved."

That serves notice that belief is required. Other passages quoted relates to baptism. Don't mix the two or allow one to replace the other. Common sense.

Further, we are not to modify, amend, redact, over ride, massage, wrongly interpret or otherwise change G-d's word or intent of scriptures. See Rev. 22. et al.

I'll give Zondervan a call to have this passage changed. We sure don't want the bible to be misleading people. /sarcasm

There are scriptures other than those already posted, which are controlling, such as; Peter 3;21, Acts 2; 38, 22;16, Rom. 6;3, Matt 28;19, Gal. 3;26.27 Mark 16;16., et al.

Perhaps you would like to try your anecdotal approach for those also....?

mailmandan · Feb 5, 2018

Jabberjaw said:

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe the gospel, but if you are on your death bed and cannot get baptized before your death, you are still saved because you BELIEVE (Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:21) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible mention "water baptized or condemned."

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Any one professing to believe in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and yet refusing to be baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion and I cannot think of one Christian that I know who has refused to be water baptized after their conversion.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.

Baptism put it in it's proper place, subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all rites and works must be. Baptism is for believers, and believers are already saved the moment that they place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not by rites or religious works, or good works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). This does not remove good works/acts of obedience (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation.

preston39 · Feb 5, 2018

mailmandan said:

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe the gospel, but if you are on your death bed and cannot get baptized before your death, you are still saved because you BELIEVE (Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:21) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible mention "water baptized or condemned."

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Any one professing to believe in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and yet refusing to be baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion and I cannot think of one Christian that I know who has refused to be water baptized after their conversion.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.

Baptism put it in it's proper place, subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all rites and works must be. Baptism is for believers, and believers are already saved the moment that they place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not by rites or religious works, or good works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). This does not remove good works/acts of obedience (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation.

m...,

G-d had The Bible written the way he chose. It is not ours to question Him as to why. Well...you can if you wish....let us know how that works for you.

preston39 · Feb 5, 2018

Donmech said:

I think a lot of people get the wrong idea when those of us who do not believe that baptism is essential to salvation say it is not required. To be clear, by no means do we seek to minimize the importance of being scripturally baptized. It is very, very important and commanded, however, the rub comes when men try to incorporate baptism into the gospel of salvation. This is where I draw a very distinct line. No matter how important and clearly commanded, baptism is only for the saved believer. Which means baptism can only occur after one has been saved. Think about it, why would the unsaved be required to be obedient? They are not. Baptism can only follow salvation. This does not minimize baptism at all, rather puts it into the proper perspective.

D....,

That's most likely the reason Christ answered John thusly..."to finish the cleansing process".

mailmandan · Feb 5, 2018

preston39 said:

It's not about questioning God, it's about properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture in order to reach the right conclusion on doctrine, which has worked out very well for me.

Gabriel2020 · Feb 5, 2018

Baptism of the Holy Ghost, the most important and the only baptism that can save you. Man has no power to save you,and the only way he can, if he could ,would be by water. Man is unworthy to claim that baptism by water can save someone. That is a lie from the devil. That is why Jesus lay claim to baptism of the Holy Ghost, man can not give it to anyone. ACTS;10; 44; While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45; And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished,as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46; For they heard them speak with tongues,and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47; Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we.? 48; And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord............... The traditional churches have practiced water baptism of being saved as a copy cat syndrome of the Holy Ghost saving a person. Water baptism is only a sign that you have been saved by the baptism of the Holy Ghost.. If someone came to me and ask me if I can baptize them in water, I would first ask them have they received the Holy Ghost, if not ,I will not baptize them. It's funny that there is always someone present when one gets baptized in he Holy Ghost, so there is no mistake that that person is spirit filled. God do reveal to a spirit filled person if another have been cleansed of their sins and is in need of baptism of the Holy Ghost. That is just one action out of many behind the Holy Ghosts.

Gabriel2020 · Feb 5, 2018

Those that have been baptized with water,without being saved first by Jesus Christ filling them with the Holy Ghost ,have been deceived by many teachers and preachers alike. These are your false teachers and prophets.

DJ2 · Feb 5, 2018

Prov910 said:

What you seem to believe in is simply a ritual act of show and not the purposeful baptism of the New Testament. I will assume you believe in faith alone theology and if so you cannot accept the true purpose of baptism as outlined in Acts 2:38. You believe that the point of forgiveness of sins happens at some point during your coming of faith in Jesus Christ and not at the baptism of the believer. Am I correct?

Peter did not tell the believers in Acts 2:38 to be baptized as a symbol but as the point of their forgiveness.

"Repent and be baptized so that your sins will be forgiven" is not the verbiage someone would use to label baptism a symbol.

The believers were told to repent, be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit not as a symbol of their repentance, forgiveness of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit but in order to get these things.

Pointing out verses that do not mention repentance, baptism or the Holy Spirit does not prove they are not part of the plan of salvation. The Bible was not written as a research paper with a thesis statement to point to, instead it is written as most prose, a series of general and definitive statements.

The following two verses sum up mankind's required response to God's gift of salvation:

Acts 5:32 "We are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

Hebrews 5:9 "And being made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him"

eternally-gratefull · Feb 5, 2018

preston39 said:

It is not ours to change the meanings of words he wrote either.

DJ2 · Feb 5, 2018

Gabriel2020 said:

You are a very very confused person and a product of the blind faith needed to believe such an absurd theology. None of what you are claiming is happening. It is simply bogus statements without even a basis to believe in, physically or scripturaly.

You have never seen anything like what happened in Acts 10:44. You are claiming something you cannot prove. You are attesting to something that you know is false. When called to back up your assertions you will cry "foul". Your claims of witnessing these events are simply that, "claims" without substance, the workshop of false teachers and false prophets.

Jabberjaw · Feb 5, 2018

Mark 16:16 has a conjugal "and" that puts believe and baptized equal, no man can change that

DJ2 · Feb 5, 2018

Jabberjaw said:

Though many have tried.

mailmandan · Feb 5, 2018

Jabberjaw said:

*Jesus clarifies the first clause with "but he who does not believe will be condemned” so believe and baptized are not equal. So what happened to baptism in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete staments? BELIEVES. *Hermeneutics.

DJ2 · Feb 5, 2018

mailmandan said:

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe the gospel, but if you are on your death bed and cannot get baptized before your death, you are still saved because you BELIEVE (Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:21) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible mention "water baptized or condemned."

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Any one professing to believe in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and yet refusing to be baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion and I cannot think of one Christian that I know who has refused to be water baptized after their conversion.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.

Baptism put it in it's proper place, subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all rites and works must be. Baptism is for believers, and believers are already saved the moment that they place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not by rites or religious works, or good works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). This does not remove good works/acts of obedience (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation.

We cannot ignore the verbiage used in Mark 16:16 to suit our theology. No matter how "unusual" of a case you may come up with, it does not negate what Jesus said.

Salvation is based upon belief and baptism. Condemnation is based upon simple unbelief. This is what the verse states. No amount of your "harmonizing" will change this.

Jabberjaw · Feb 5, 2018

It appears some have to rewrite the text to fit their man made doctrine, Mark 16:16 plainly states belief and baptized are both requirements with the conjugal "and" and proves one cannot be true without the other, if you don't believe baptized is a requirement then you don't believe the word of God

Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member