Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I was shocked to say the least......have not seen him in years although I hear he is still around....one time I went over in winter with a foot of snow on the ground....he had burnt his camper in September just to see it burn....nothing there as I sat looking all of a sudden I seen the snow move....and he come up from the snow out from under a tarp and had been sleeping on the ground under the snow.........it was surreal......
"Freegrace doctrine says
unbelievers WILL go into the kingdom. "
So I have a question:
I have a brother-in-law who clearly became a believer in Christ at about sixteen years of age. His life changed drastically; he confessed belief in Christ, and everyone around him clearly saw the change. He had joy and realness.
Now much later life he is an avowed atheist - almost married a Hindu lady - wants nothing to do with God - clearly does not profess or claim or want belief in God - (He seems to me like an unbeliever)
Someone previously suggested to me he might be a prodigal who will come back to God before the end of his life. I have also been told that in spite of what he says and shows externally, that he must still be a believer. Or, I have been told that his initial salvation experience was not real and genuine.
I must admit that all three of the previous possibilities might be true: they are all plausibly possible.
How does freegrace doctrine answer this question?
1) Correction to "Ralph-;" It's not "freegrace doctrine" it is "Free Grace Theology." Get your facts straight.
2) What "Ralph-" said (this time) is not a lie, so, sorry "undergrace" you're incorrect. It is exactly what proponents of FGT teach, Zane Hodges being one. There are more and they are popular preachers. They teach a person can become an unbeliever, even a child of the devil, and still will go to heaven. Zane has used John 8:31-47 to "prove" this exact false teaching.
(for those who wish to learn and know the truth and can be corrected, for those otherwise, well...carry on)
2) What "Ralph-" said (this time) is not a lie, so, sorry "undergrace" you're incorrect. It is exactly what proponents of FGT teach, Zane Hodges being one. There are more and they are popular preachers. They teach a person can become an unbeliever, even a child of the devil, and still will go to heaven. Zane has used John 8:31-47 to "prove" this exact false teaching.
(for those who wish to learn and know the truth and can be corrected, for those otherwise, well...carry on)
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Yet man cannot infallibly know someone's heart. Perseverance in faith is proof of genuine conversion.
What does that tell you?
I would tend to lean towards the latter.
There is 1 John 2:19 and there is the story of the prodigal son. Only God infallibly knows his heart, but it doesn't sound good. I know someone named Brian who previously professed to be a Christian and even temporarily taught Sunday school at a church that we previously attended for 12 years. On the surface, he appeared to be the real deal (but so did Judas Iscariot to the other disciples) but now Brian left that church and refuses to attend church, professes to be an atheist, is hateful towards Christianity and wants nothing to do with the Bible.
What does that tell you?
I would tend to lean towards the latter.
There is 1 John 2:19 and there is the story of the prodigal son. Only God infallibly knows his heart, but it doesn't sound good. I know someone named Brian who previously professed to be a Christian and even temporarily taught Sunday school at a church that we previously attended for 12 years. On the surface, he appeared to be the real deal (but so did Judas Iscariot to the other disciples) but now Brian left that church and refuses to attend church, professes to be an atheist, is hateful towards Christianity and wants nothing to do with the Bible.
Malachi 3:6 (HCSB) 6 “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed, you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed. If you can find out how GOD SAVED one MAN, then You will know how everyone who is SAVED, got saved. Romans 4:3-5 (HCSB) 3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness. 4 Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness. Works are what we DO because we LOVE HIM, after we are SAVED. They Do Not have anything to do with Salvation. 1 John 3:14-18 (HCSB) 14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. 16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers. 17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him? 18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action. As you can see, it is PART OF GOD'S LOVE that the Holy Spirit put in our hearts, Rom. 5:5, when we were SAVED.
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