Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't prescribe to much of your preaching EG. The preaching that Jesus, before becoming a man, created instructions so burdensome, so grievous, so many in number that it is impossible to follow, then killed thousands for not following them is false in my understanding. You also preach the Pharisees that Jesus called "children of satan" we trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws and not their own. This also is false. Neither satan, nor its children, are interested in following God's Instructions, rather, they are interested in tricking people into rejecting God's instructions. The whole purpose of satan and its children is not to convince people into obey God's Instructions, but to disobey. Surely you don't deny that.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

If God's Instructions were good enough for Jesus, they are good enough for me. Just because you preach it's impossible to "walk as Jesus walked" doesn't make it true.

You are wrong about the Pharisees and their religion. You might consider that you have been led in the wrong direction regarding the instructions Jesus created for man.

No, What you do not describe to is Gods word. It has nothing to do with my teaching. The law was NEVER given to make men righteous, It was GIVEN to expose their sin. Your have the same problem the pharisee had. He thought he was righteous, because he thought he obeyed the law. So when christ came (to whome th law pointed to) they could not see him for who he was. And because of it, they rejected him.



Gal 3: [FONT=&quot]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [/FONT]20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.[FONT=&quot]21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Rom 3: Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.[/FONT]
[h=3]God’s Righteousness Through Faith[/h][FONT=&quot]21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

But hey, You want to continue to think your righteous and can keep Gods law as required (perfection) feel free.. As for me, I will continue to follow God[/FONT]

 

[star]

License to sin, works, license to sin, works

Praise God my soul is saved through His merciful free gift and for the shed blood of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. So there is no need for

license to sin, works

 

[LightLoveHope]

The sad thing is I understand both views very well.
Christ the gift of His life on the cross brings us into the Kingdom, but does not change
the rules of love and life, and how to live in purity in Christ.

OCD self condemners need to know freedom in their life, because the sin in their hearts
is around carrying a burden of self justification.

The other side is of lawlessness and no obligations is equally wrong.
So many can hide in either position and miss the beauty of Jesus.

If you cannot resolve this, in time all one believes will fade away.

What people trapped in your "freedom" is to ignore the obvious calling to obedience
and love which is just rejected, as if this is the world of the enemy.

I am truly free in Christ, knowing purity in the heart is the beginning of the Kingdom.

I seem to have be told I should use language in a different way.
But I write what comes to my mind, which connects various points. It is up to the reader
to see how it is meant.

So
"Christ the gift of His life on the cross brings us into the Kingdom, but does not change
the rules of love and life, and how to live in purity in Christ."

"Christ the gift of His life on the cross brings us into the Kingdom,
but
does not change
the rules of love and life, and how to live in purity in Christ."

Scripture can be read too quickly and an emphasis put that changes the outcome
unless one is careful.

It is why we need to listen, pray, abide, let our minds dwell on the things of God.
Nothing is just obvious or clear instantly, in fact much is buried and infinitely repeating
like an infinite fractal, so the simplest to the most sophisticated can commune with
the living God.

 

[Studyman]

Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

What part of perfection is required do they not understand?

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

There is a Law of works and a Law of Faith. Abraham obeyed the Law of Faith. The Law of Works was "ADDED" 430 years later. You have been tricked into believing these two are the same Law. For this reason you don't understand Paul in Gal. or Romans.

Of the Law of Works (Levite priesthood) Paul says; 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

The Levitical Priesthood does not judge us, God's "Law of Faith" judges us.

Rom. 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

This is not pertaining to the "Added" Levitical Priesthood "Law of Works", but the Law of Faith Abraham obeyed. This is the "Law of Liberty".

12 For as many as have sinned without law (Not Law of Works) shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (Not Law of Works)

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. ( Not Law of Works)

Because you have been tricked into believing God's Instruction are so grievous and that the Pharisees were rejected because they were trying to earn salvation by following God's burdensome Law and not their own "Commandments of Men" as Jesus taught, you are being led astray.

I wish it were not so.

 

[MichaelOwen]

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

There is a Law of works and a Law of Faith. Abraham obeyed the Law of Faith. The Law of Works was "ADDED" 430 years later. You have been tricked into believing these two are the same Law. For this reason you don't understand Paul in Gal. or Romans.

Of the Law of Works (Levite priesthood) Paul says; 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

The Levitical Priesthood does not judge us, God's "Law of Faith" judges us.

Rom. 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

This is not pertaining to the "Added" Levitical Priesthood "Law of Works", but the Law of Faith Abraham obeyed. This is the "Law of Liberty".

12 For as many as have sinned without law (Not Law of Works) shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (Not Law of Works)

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. ( Not Law of Works)

Because you have been tricked into believing God's Instruction are so grievous and that the Pharisees were rejected because they were trying to earn salvation by following God's burdensome Law and not their own "Commandments of Men" as Jesus taught, you are being led astray.

I wish it were not so.

The Pharisees were rejected because they did not believe Jesus was the Messiah, and they rebuked Him of every work that He did, and they kept rejecting Him IN THEIR HEARTS.....that's why the Pharisees were rejected.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The Pharisees were rejected because they did not believe Jesus was the Messiah, and they rebuked Him of every work that He did, and they kept rejecting Him IN THEIR HEARTS.....that's why the Pharisees were rejected.

yup just like those in matthew....

boast of their works

but He never knew them ...

never were born again
so they are judged by their works

and not imputed righteousness

 

[BillG]

We have heard this stuff before. A thread was opened about it. I do not understand where it comes from though, if we have no assurance in God, what assurance can we ever have? In self?? Then when we understand this is the root of the problem, we start to understand why they stay the things they do.

Yes that's true.
If we have no assurance in God and of God then the only assurance were have is in ourselves.

Well at least we think we have.
The reality is that we live guilt ridden lives.
Waiting for the sky to fall on our heads.

Does God love, or dies he not?
If I work harder then he will love me, if I get it wrong then he won't love me?
If I sin at that point will be not love me?
One minute I'm in the next I'm out.
Emotions all over the place.
It's no wonder that many many Christians suffer from anxiety as a result of this.

What I find very interesting concerning this is that the issue is not with Jesus but with God.

How many people on this site know that God loves us as much as he loves Jesus?

I was very surprised when I have asked people that question.

So many did not believe it or said that can't be true.

So I point out

John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

If we have no assurance in and of God then we will be miserable believers until the day we die.

Not for action.

Very sad indeed.

We shall know the truth and the shall set us free, not should but will.

 

[Studyman]

No, What you do not describe to is Gods word. It has nothing to do with my teaching. The law was NEVER given to make men righteous, It was GIVEN to expose their sin. Your have the same problem the pharisee had. He thought he was righteous, because he thought he obeyed the law. So when christ came (to whome th law pointed to) they could not see him for who he was. And because of it, they rejected him.



Gal 3: What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Rom 3: Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

But hey, You want to continue to think your righteous and can keep Gods law as required (perfection) feel free.. As for me, I will continue to follow God

The Pharisees refused God's instructions EG, and created their own. You won't even acknowledge this. No matter how many time you preach against this truth, you can not change it. Had the Pharisees trusted God like Zechariahs and Abraham, they would have their names included in Heb. 11, as examples of Faith.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[MichaelOwen]

The Pharisees refused God's instructions EG, and created their own. You won't even acknowledge this. No matter how many time you preach against this truth, you can not change it. Had the Pharisees trusted God like Zechariahs and Abraham, they would have their names included in Heb. 11, as examples of Faith.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

You're still missing it....if they had ACCEPTED Christ as the Messiah and glorified Him in their hearts, then they would have been accepted. They refused to do that because they felt the Old Law was the only law. But Jesus came not to abolish the law, but that it might be fulfilled. They "thought" there were wise, but rejecting Jesus, they became fools......think about it

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The Pharisees refused God's instructions EG, and created their own. You won't even acknowledge this. No matter how many time you preach against this truth, you can not change it. Had the Pharisees trusted God like Zechariahs and Abraham, they would have their names included in Heb. 11, as examples of Faith.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Phar·i·see
ˈferəˌsē/Submit
noun
a member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.
___
a self-righteous person; a hypocrite.


◄ 5330. Pharisaios ►
Strong's Concordance
Pharisaios: a Pharisee, member of a Jewish religious sect
Original Word: Φαρισαῖος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Pharisaios
Phonetic Spelling: (far-is-ah'-yos)
Short Definition: a Pharisee
Definition: a Pharisee, one of the Jewish sect so called.
HELPS Word-studies
5330 Pharisaíos – properly, "a separatist, a purist"; a Pharisee."

["Pharisee" is derived from the Aramaic term, peras ("to divide and separate"). This literally refers to a "separatist"; hence, a Pharisee was someone "separated from sin."]


________


Romans 10:3
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

There are a lot of sins in the body that is not to lead to death, but any spiritual sin will cost you a seat in the lake of fire.

Houston...we have a failure here........the bolded is not correct.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I find that the people who defend the good works for our continual justification are either:

1) Belittling what Jesus has done on the Cross because to them it's not enough.
2) Bringing down God's standard of righteousness to human level so they can make it achievable.

---

Israel could not keep up the law so they brought the standard down to their level.

The law said not to murder. But you know what, Jesus came to show us God's real standard of righteousness. I.E. to hate is to murder.

The gospel of God's grace magnifies the righteousness of God and puts it back in its place. We cannot achieve it.

The gospel of God's grace magnifies the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. He has achieved it. So in Him, our righteousness is now found. Not of ourselves.

AMEN and I agree........

 

[Locutus]

Inside Ralph and PeterJens heads:

 

[LightLoveHope]

Some seem to think for the pharisees it was just a question of faith or belief.

They were lost, driven by sinful passions, some totally dead to life, love and God.

Jesus was simply pointing out the root cause of their failure, which they refused
to resolve.

If we dwell in impurity, we will never see God, or Christ or know why people are lost.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

A strange phrase, because no one can see Jesus truly until He has cleansed them.
It is why arguments become futile, because the chain of spiritual reality always leads
us either to Jesus or to rebellion. Gods word will always shine a light on where one is,
dwelling in the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit or in enmity.

Paul says it like this

We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
1 Timothy 1:9-10

If you have a problem with the law, you are not walking in the Spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

They are yet babes in Christ, those just born-again. To expect them to be Christ-like the following Sunday is setting them up for failure and condemnation. Be an example unto them, walk in love and guide them in the truth of who they are in Christ. What Christ purchased for them, and how they now are set free from sin not being under the law but grace. Just as the apostle Paul did, inform them of who they have been made. They are saints of God, the righteous.

AMEN....Creation speaks.....nothing bears fruit the next day after sprouting......everything takes a period of growth and maturity before it bears fruit......and no one has denied this.....this thread is about salvation and the fact it is not earned, gained, kept or maintained by works......it is eternally given at the moment of belief....end of story!

 

[NoNameMcgee]

some false gospel pushers (lightlovehope for example)

who lie
bare false witness
manipulate
omit truth

love to pretend they are seperate from sin
while they are still in their flesh

but this makes them hypocrits

and they do not put their faith in what Jesus did on the cross as the only means to salvation

but they like to add their dirty rags (own works) onto what it takes to "stay" saved

when in reality

He who began a good work in you will perform it until the day of Christ

and if any man sins He has an advocate with the Father in Jesus Christ

 

[dcontroversal]

Just a heads up, Ben. Read all of them. He has some very unorthodox, even cultist beliefs.

Like I am not saved until the end when Jesus sees my works......<----Not biblical

 

[NoNameMcgee]

this whole thread is devoted to giving Jesus glory for our salvation

you know someone is wrong when that offends them

they refuse to accept what Jesus did on the cross

and their itching ears lead them to believe they can save themself if they just try hard enough

but the gospel is clear


if you are His sheep

you never lose salvation

He never forsakes you

 

[NoNameMcgee]

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:


1 John Chapter 5

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

bump

 

[dcontroversal]

1st paragraph- " the Cross does not change......" thus is the sad, deceived mind of a works-based mindset- the Cross was not enough, I have to do part to save myself.

sad. dishonest. deceived.

Some of his replies before he came back under this banner.....

The cross is not enough
The imputed righteousness is a neat little trick that does not work

and I forget the third one which was as bad.......