Church of Christ
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Swing and a miss...Abraham was justified by works (James 2:21) his righteous would have been revoked like others, had he not obeyed.....generalities do not save a flea, much less a man...baptism is the PUBLIC declaration of a clear conscience toward God that now saves us (1st Peter 3:21) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ....the thought does not save, the act of FAITH does....next batter.
If he was justified by works, he earned a wage, he did not receive grace.
James in context was speaking to people who CLAIMED to have faith, and telling people to examine themselves to see if they had true faith or not. We can tell by our works. Abraham worked because he had true faith. so why is it you claim you have faith, yet you do not work?
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Why do you continue to ignore the context. The context of the passags is not works. the context is people who CLAIM they HAVE FAITH.
He never once said they had faith. In fact, his conclusion, was that although they may believe (even demons believe) their faith is non existent or powerless (dead) And he asked the question. Can a non existent, dead faith save you? Of course not.
The use of James 1:27 is to show how verses cannot be taken as definitive when not presented as such. In other words, if I used the same train of thought I could say that because faith is not mentioned in the verse it must mean that only helping widows and orphans and keeping yourself pure is what matters to God. This is of course false. Yet many will take John 3:16 and say that because faith is mentioned and not repentance or baptism then only faith is commanded. Can you not see my point?
"bloody rags", what Bible do you read from?
"bloody rags", what Bible do you read from?
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The bible says our works are as bloody rags (if you looked at the hebrew, it is actually far worse than bloody) Paul; says it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, But By Gods mercy he saved us. by the washing and renewal of the HS (do you even read the bible. or just a few chosen verses which you think supports your ideas or beliefs?)
If you think your going to go to God, and when he asks you why he should let you into heaven, and you say because you visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to kept yourself unspotted from the world. Your going to by mighty upset, because Jesus will tell you flat out. Depart from him, for he never knew you. Because you rejected HIS means of salvation, and tried to replace it with your own.
If you think your going to go to God, and when he asks you why he should let you into heaven, and you say because you visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to kept yourself unspotted from the world. Your going to by mighty upset, because Jesus will tell you flat out. Depart from him, for he never knew you. Because you rejected HIS means of salvation, and tried to replace it with your own.
This is metaphoric double talk. Acts 2:38 clearly states that we are commanded to be baptized "so that our sins are forgiven and we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". The command to be baptized is so that our sins are forgiven and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit not as a simple ritual for others to see.
Nothing you can say or do will change the wording of scripture.
Ananias told Paul to get up and be baptized and wash away his sins not because he wanted a confession of faith from Paul but for Paul to obey the gospel as Ananias did. No one can command someone to be "spirit baptized", Peter and Ananias were commanding water baptism. Fight this if you want.
Nothing you can say or do will change the wording of scripture.
Ananias told Paul to get up and be baptized and wash away his sins not because he wanted a confession of faith from Paul but for Paul to obey the gospel as Ananias did. No one can command someone to be "spirit baptized", Peter and Ananias were commanding water baptism. Fight this if you want.
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lol.. Your have one verse. I have many many verses, myself and others have shared with you over and over, But you ignore. them. you want to base them on ONE little verse. which does not even say what you claim it says. And then demand other people follow you.
Sorry man, I follow a bible which is 66 books long, not one passage of scripture which some one says says one thing, when an open mind and further study shows it does not say that at all.
Go ahead, and puff yourself up about being saved by what you did.
I will puff God up by declaring he saved me by what he did, including his act of washing my sins in the baptism of the spirit. which is dependent on NO MAN.
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what I understand is your trying to take a verse, which makes a statement of fact. and trying to use it to continue in your physical works based gospel. To excuse the fact that since Jesus did not use the word baptize in John 3, Does not mean we should not include it.
Sorry, Not buying it.
James is speaking of people who THINK they are religious but at the same time, refuse to do certain things, If you do not even do these things (bridle your tongue, visit orphans and widows. and keep yourself spotless (as paul said without blame) you need to rethink.
The whole first few chapters of James is about testing our faith, testing our patience, Testing our thoughts, testing our work. Testing our motivation.
In john 3 and many many other places. Jesus made a statement of fact (as did many others) He who believes is not condemed, He who does not believe is condemned already.
If baptism was so important, Jesus would not have left it out of his statement of fact.
A statement of fact is far different than arguing a position. as james was trying to do. (if you claim to be religion, if you claim to have faith etc etc)
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lol.. ALL my verses are written in the definitive.
Jesus said definitively..
He who sees the son and believes in him has eternal life, will never die, will live forever, and be raised ont he last day (john 6)
He said definitively, believe in him, and out of your heart will flow rivers of living water leading to eternal life (john 4)
He said definitively God sent his son, that whoever believes in him, will never die but has in his possession eternal life. (john 3)
He said definitively, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already because they have not believed.
Jesus was not making a general observation He made statements of fact. You do not believe it, thats on you, feel free to believe whatever you want,
one last time, Peter did also,
he said Repent, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (spoken to ALL who were present) and let everyone of you (singular subject. he was not speaking to all. but only a select group of people) be baptized on the account you have received remission of sin ("unto" can mean on the account of, or in order to receive so you can not say I am twisting the word) (also remission of sin, this is the group of people singular, peter was telling to be baptized.
Jesus said definitively..
He who sees the son and believes in him has eternal life, will never die, will live forever, and be raised ont he last day (john 6)
He said definitively, believe in him, and out of your heart will flow rivers of living water leading to eternal life (john 4)
He said definitively God sent his son, that whoever believes in him, will never die but has in his possession eternal life. (john 3)
He said definitively, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already because they have not believed.
Jesus was not making a general observation He made statements of fact. You do not believe it, thats on you, feel free to believe whatever you want,
one last time, Peter did also,
he said Repent, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (spoken to ALL who were present) and let everyone of you (singular subject. he was not speaking to all. but only a select group of people) be baptized on the account you have received remission of sin ("unto" can mean on the account of, or in order to receive so you can not say I am twisting the word) (also remission of sin, this is the group of people singular, peter was telling to be baptized.
You do not know what definitive means, do you.
None of your verses definitively states that faith alone is the means to salvation. None, not one. If you can read these verses and believe that they do, then you do not understand the meaning of definitive. And if so explains a great deal of your confusion.
Definitive means all encompassing, final, conclusive, comprehensive and all-inclusive. None of your verses are written in this matter yet you are blind to this.
None of your verses definitively states that faith alone is the means to salvation. None, not one. If you can read these verses and believe that they do, then you do not understand the meaning of definitive. And if so explains a great deal of your confusion.
Definitive means all encompassing, final, conclusive, comprehensive and all-inclusive. None of your verses are written in this matter yet you are blind to this.