Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

[DJ2]

I do agree that obedience is important and that we have no free ticket to sin and do as we please but as for it being a by product of salvation I can understand how that may be true. I mean it's not just obedience but also the heart behind the obedience a changed heart that has been born again will obey not because it's mandatory but because they want to that is the flow of the holy spirit he changes our hearts to not just obey but to find joy and in doing so and not doing it because we have to but we very much desire to. A heart that has not received the holy spirit and has not been born again can obey but will not do so for the same reason of that of a changed heart and the results will also be very different.

There is only way to salvation and that is through the blood and sacrifice of Jesus, we cannot obey and be saved because only a changed heart and born again believer can truly obey to begin with.
however some go so far as to think obedience is not so important and that we can simply do as we please completely disregarding the commandments and what we are taught by Jesus himself to do and be.

I mean it's not just obedience but also the heart behind the obedience a changed heart that has been born again will obey

There is no obedience without the will to obey, there is no born again with obedience and there certainly is no holy spirit without obedience. We obey to get the blessings, not the other way around. You are getting the Gospel backwards. In the parable of the two sons, it was the son that "did" the will of the father that was praised not the son that "did not".

There is only way to salvation and that is through the blood and sacrifice of Jesus

Agreed, but these words are simply an abstraction without an event. Only univeralists accept this phrase without an event.

we cannot obey and be saved because only a changed heart and born again believer can truly obey to begin with.

If this is true why are there so many examples of non-believers being commanded to obey.

 

[Blain]

Do you communicate with God; it's like telepathy, not audio but He speaks by putting in your head these whole thought streams. Don't try to hard, just let it happen. You had a vision at your baptism, be satisfied with it. God is alive and He speaks to his children.

Yes constantly. He speaks to me in many many ways from something as simple as a flower on the ground to a full on vision. Often times it happens while I am here on cc I will get these images or suddenly a sense of knowing and knowledge that I never knew or thought about it, or he will place words in my heart to speak and I type like a mad man until all the words are poured.
Other times he will speak to me in soft utterances like if I am sad and feeling weak I will be embraced by this warmth and filled with this tender love that brings me to tears or sometimes it's almost as if he allows me to sometimes peek into his own heart and I can feel what he feels and know his own thoughts, this normally is not for myself but for someone else because he has always given me this when I am helping others almost like he allows me to feel what they feel and their pain is my pain my pain and then he just gives me these feelings and thoughts of what he feels and thinks of them and their situation.

To be honest that empathy and the way he would allow me to feel and experience that is my favorite because the beauty of how he will use me in this way to help mend and help heal the inner woulds and struggles of others is beyond amazing. I don't ever try for these they just happen, with him and I we have this kind of flow it just feels natural almost as if by instinct

 

[Gabriel2020]

I don't understand," excuse me", you people. If you know about water baptism, you should know about spiritual baptism. Both are right in the bible, almost next to each other. What are you afraid of, or is it that you don't want to turn your old life loose,because The holy Ghost in a person will do just that. Turn you from old to new, and teach you only of heavenly things as it only knows how to do. Like Some of the disciples said, if a person won't listen, then dust the dust from your feet and move on.

 

[hornetguy]

Like Some of the disciples said, if a person won't listen, then dust the dust from your feet and move on.

actually, it was Jesus that said that.....

 

[Blain]

There is no obedience without the will to obey, there is no born again with obedience and there certainly is no holy spirit without obedience. We obey to get the blessings, not the other way around. You are getting the Gospel backwards. In the parable of the two sons, it was the son that "did" the will of the father that was praised not the son that "did not".

Agreed, but these words are simply an abstraction without an event. Only univeralists accept this phrase without an event.

If this is true why are there so many examples of non-believers being commanded to obey.

So let me see if I understand you correctly, You think that in order to receive salvation we must first obey and that we obey to receive the blessings? So what is your reason for obeying then? The motive and the reason of the heart is always the deciding factor, if you obey simply to receive salvation then what you get is a believer who tries to earn salvation through acts of obedience.
We can try all we want to earn salvation through obedience but if that was how it worked Jesus would not have had to die on the cross.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Ok, thank you for that, I do know it was said. most of the time I talk the scriptures ,and only quote them when I need to.. But the Holy Spirit does not teach from without the body, but from within the body. That is why scriptures say that ye are the temple of God, because the Holy Spirit dwells within.

 

[Deade]

Yes constantly. He speaks to me in many many ways from something as simple as a flower on the ground to a full on vision. Often times it happens while I am here on cc I will get these images or suddenly a sense of knowing and knowledge that I never knew or thought about it, or he will place words in my heart to speak and I type like a mad man until all the words are poured.
Other times he will speak to me in soft utterances like if I am sad and feeling weak I will be embraced by this warmth and filled with this tender love that brings me to tears or sometimes it's almost as if he allows me to sometimes peek into his own heart and I can feel what he feels and know his own thoughts, this normally is not for myself but for someone else because he has always given me this when I am helping others almost like he allows me to feel what they feel and their pain is my pain my pain and then he just gives me these feelings and thoughts of what he feels and thinks of them and their situation.

To be honest that empathy and the way he would allow me to feel and experience that is my favorite because the beauty of how he will use me in this way to help mend and help heal the inner woulds and struggles of others is beyond amazing. I don't ever try for these they just happen, with him and I we have this kind of flow it just feels natural almost as if by instinct

The baptism with the HS has already happened: that is the one that counts. Just obey the Spirit. Just a word of warning, if you feel something amiss with the input: test the spirit.

1 John 4:1-3: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

 

[Blain]

No it isn't that baptism is for the ones on earth that survive the 7 vials. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is what Jesus was baptized with and that is what He baptized His followers with. The signs following came with that baptism. I assume you do not have those powers.

Zec:13:8:
And it shall come to pass,
that in all the land,
saith the LORD,
two parts therein shall be cut off and die;
but the third shall be left therein.
Zec:13:9:
And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name,
and I will hear them:
I will say,
It is my people:
and they shall say,
The LORD is my God.

This is probably one of the better anti-rapture references.

1Pe:4:12-16:
Beloved,
think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice,
inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;
that,
when his glory shall be revealed,
ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ,
happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
on their part he is evil spoken of,
but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,
let him not be ashamed;
but let him glorify God on this behalf.

The scriptures you posted is about suffering through fire and trials not about the baptism of fire

 

[Blain]

The baptism with the HS has already happened: that is the one that counts. Just obey the Spirit. Just a word of warning, if you feel something amiss with the input: test the spirit.

1 John 4:1-3: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

Yes I am often careful not to confuse my own voice and thoughts with his though I will admit I not always the best at that, normally if I feel that flow then my heart knows the way to go if I speak without that flow then more often than not I am speaking my own thoughts and words. And i also cannot simply rely on the feeling of the flow discernment is vital no matter how you look at it

 

[DJ2]

So let me see if I understand you correctly, You think that in order to receive salvation we must first obey and that we obey to receive the blessings? So what is your reason for obeying then? The motive and the reason of the heart is always the deciding factor, if you obey simply to receive salvation then what you get is a believer who tries to earn salvation through acts of obedience.
We can try all we want to earn salvation through obedience but if that was how it worked Jesus would not have had to die on the cross.

"Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice and to heed is better than the fat of rams."

Salvation is not based on our perceived sensibilities. The blind man at the Pool of Siloam desired healing, was his washing an attempt to earn his blessing of sight? Of course not and neither is obeying for the sake of salvation an attempt to earn it.

 

[DJ2]

Baptism is simply the "when" and "where" of salvation. There is nothing magical about the water itself, just the correct answer to God (1st Peter 3:21). We are baptized in obedience to the New Covenant gospel. Baptism is a participation into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3-5). Jesus' work of atonement on the cross is the "what" of salvation. Only those who are properly dressed for the wedding banquet will be allowed at the table (Matthew 22:1-14)

Many on the day of judgement will find themselves without excuse. Bumper sticker theology such as "Jesus Saves", "Saved by the Blood", "Holy Spirit Baptized" are but abstractions without an event and cannot save.

The wedding guest was not throw out of the banquet because he wasn't invited but because he was not properly prepared. We may debate what it means to be properly prepared but not the need to prepare. God's grace is the offer, baptism is the acceptance.

 

[Donmech]

Salvation simply stated by Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit: (Romans 10:9-10) That if thou shoult confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, t h o u s h a l t b e s a v e d.
(vs 10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made is made unto s a l v a t i o n. At the point of belief we are saved. Not just a mental assent rather a depending, trusting, confidence in the finished and completed work of Jesus Christ. Salvation being a gift from God makes it impossible for me to do any thing to earn that gift, whether it be doing good, going to church, stop cussing, living right, getting baptized or any thing that I do. A gift is free of all strings else it ceases to be a gift. Once a person becomes a child of God then and only then can he/she be obedient and begin the process of sanctification.
If you disagree take it up with Paul!

 

[LibrarianLeo]

Salvation simply stated by Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit: (Romans 10:9-10) That if thou shoult confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, t h o u s h a l t b e s a v e d.
(vs 10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made is made unto s a l v a t i o n. At the point of belief we are saved. Not just a mental assent rather a depending, trusting, confidence in the finished and completed work of Jesus Christ. Salvation being a gift from God makes it impossible for me to do any thing to earn that gift, whether it be doing good, going to church, stop cussing, living right, getting baptized or any thing that I do. A gift is free of all strings else it ceases to be a gift. Once a person becomes a child of God then and only then can he/she be obedient and begin the process of sanctification.
If you disagree take it up with Paul!

Paul did not treat other (classes of) people the same as he would wish to be treated himself.

 

[preston39]

Salvation simply stated by Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit: (Romans 10:9-10) That if thou shoult confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, t h o u s h a l t b e s a v e d.
(vs 10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made is made unto s a l v a t i o n. At the point of belief we are saved. Not just a mental assent rather a depending, trusting, confidence in the finished and completed work of Jesus Christ. Salvation being a gift from God makes it impossible for me to do any thing to earn that gift, whether it be doing good, going to church, stop cussing, living right, getting baptized or any thing that I do. A gift is free of all strings else it ceases to be a gift. Once a person becomes a child of God then and only then can he/she be obedient and begin the process of sanctification.
If you disagree take it up with Paul!/QUOTE]

D...,

Are you suggesting here that a person doesn't have to do anything (i.e...repent)...in order to receive the promised salvation?

 

[DJ2]

Salvation simply stated by Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit: (Romans 10:9-10) That if thou shoult confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, t h o u s h a l t b e s a v e d.
(vs 10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made is made unto s a l v a t i o n. At the point of belief we are saved. Not just a mental assent rather a depending, trusting, confidence in the finished and completed work of Jesus Christ. Salvation being a gift from God makes it impossible for me to do any thing to earn that gift, whether it be doing good, going to church, stop cussing, living right, getting baptized or any thing that I do. A gift is free of all strings else it ceases to be a gift. Once a person becomes a child of God then and only then can he/she be obedient and begin the process of sanctification.
If you disagree take it up with Paul!

Salvation simply stated by Jesus under His own authority: (Mark 16:16) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Once a person is baptized ("so that your sins will be forgiven") they become a child of God then and only then can he/she can begin the process of sanctification.
If you disagree take it up with God!

 

[Donmech]

Salvation simply stated by Jesus under His own authority: (Mark 16:16) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Once a person is baptized ("so that your sins will be forgiven") they become a child of God then and only then can he/she can begin the process of sanctification.
If you disagree take it up with God!

I noticed you like to mock people's post when you can't deal with plain scriptures, so, does this mean you don't believe Romans 10:9 and all the other numerous verses that proclaim salvation is by believing in Christ with no mention of baptism at all?

 

[Donmech]

Salvation simply stated by Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit: (Romans 10:9-10) That if thou shoult confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, t h o u s h a l t b e s a v e d.
(vs 10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made is made unto s a l v a t i o n. At the point of belief we are saved. Not just a mental assent rather a depending, trusting, confidence in the finished and completed work of Jesus Christ. Salvation being a gift from God makes it impossible for me to do any thing to earn that gift, whether it be doing good, going to church, stop cussing, living right, getting baptized or any thing that I do. A gift is free of all strings else it ceases to be a gift. Once a person becomes a child of God then and only then can he/she be obedient and begin the process of sanctification.
If you disagree take it up with Paul!/QUOTE]

D...,

Are you suggesting here that a person doesn't have to do anything (i.e...repent)...in order to receive the promised salvation?

Read verse (9) again. Confessing is repenting.

 

[Donmech]

Salvation simply stated by Jesus under His own authority: (Mark 16:16) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Once a person is baptized ("so that your sins will be forgiven") they become a child of God then and only then can he/she can begin the process of sanctification.
If you disagree take it up with God!

Are you suggesting God didn't have anything to do with Romans 10:9-10 ?

 

[preston39]

Salvation simply stated by Jesus under His own authority: (Mark 16:16) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Once a person is baptized ("so that your sins will be forgiven") they become a child of God then and only then can he/she can begin the process of sanctification.
If you disagree take it up with God!

D...,


You are correct.

What the no baptism folks are missing is this; ...that language is addresses the point about ..."belief"...only.

In comparison, other scriptures addresses ..."baptism"...only.

All of them go together for proper conclusion....baptism is required for final sin cleansing purposes....."completion".

 

[DJ2]

I noticed you like to mock people's post when you can't deal with plain scriptures, so, does this mean you don't believe Romans 10:9 and all the other numerous verses that proclaim salvation is by believing in Christ with no mention of baptism at all?

What you should notice is that the examples in your line of reasoning is not written in the definitive, hence my mocking. You are presenting Romans 10:9-10 as an all-encompassing verse which it clearly is not. Nothing in its verbiage would imply a definitive case. The letter was written to a saved body of believers not potential Christians searching for the plan of salvation.

i mocked your post because you were attempting to present an incomplete understanding of the gospel. You have no authority to use the words of Paul as definitive in nature, if he wanted it that way he simply would have written it that way.