mark of the beast

TMS · Feb 23, 2018

Tho establish the mark you need to establish the antichrist who is the beast

Antichrist = in the place of Christ not against like most like.
[FONT=&quot]Look up in Strong's Concordance word 473 in the Greek dictionary. You will find the the word anti is often used to denote substitution-
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]An example of how anti is used this way can be found in the words type and antitype, which are used with respect to Bible prophecy. The "type" is the pattern or symbol, and the antitype is the fulfillment. The Jewish Passover was a "type" and the crucifixion of Jesus is the "antitype" or fulfillment of the example of the type. You substitute the antitype into the symbolism of the type to arrive at the complete meaning.[/FONT]

So who has set themselves up as the Christ on Earth?

[FONT=&quot]"Vicar of Christ . . . Title used almost exclusively of the Bishop of Rome as successor of Peter and, therefore, the one in the Church who particularly takes the place of Christ; but used also of bishops in general and even of priests. First used by the Roman Synod of A.D. 495 to refer to Pope Gelasius; more commonly in Roman curial usage to refer to the Bishop of Rome during the pontificate of Pope Eugene III (1145-1153). Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) asserted explicitly that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ; further defined at the Council of Florence in the [/FONT]Decree for the Greeks (1439) and Vatican Council I in Pastor Aerternus (1870). The Second Vatican Council, in Lumen Gentium , n.27, calls bishops in general "vicars and legates of Christ." All bishops are vicars of Christ for their local churches in their ministerial functions as priest, prophet, and king, as the Pope is for the universal church; the title further denotes they exercise their authority in the Church not by delegation from any other person, but from Christ Himself."
[SIZE=+1]VICARIUS FILII DEI[/SIZE][FONT=&quot]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]THE LITERAL MEANING: [/TD]
[TD]VICARIUS - substituting for, or in place of [/TD]
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[TD][/TD]
[TD]FILII - means son [/TD]
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[TD][/TD]
[TD]DEI - means GOD[/TD]
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[TABLE="width: 372"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]V[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 25, colspan: 1, align: center"]

[/TD]
[TD="width: 17, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] F [/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]no value[/TD]
[TD="width: 25, colspan: 1, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 12, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]D[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 17, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"][/TD]
[TD="width: 12, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]E[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]no value[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]100[/TD]
[TD="width: 17, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]L[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]50[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"][/TD]
[TD="width: 12, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]A[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]no value[/TD]
[TD="width: 17, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"][/TD]
[TD="width: 12, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]--------[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]R[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]no value[/TD]
[TD="width: 17, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"][/TD]
[TD="width: 12, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]501[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 17, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]--------[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]U/V[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 17, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]53[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]S[/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]=[/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]no value[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD][/TD]
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[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]--------[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, colspan: 1"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, colspan: 1"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, colspan: 5"] 112 + 53 + 501 = 666[/TD]
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[TD="width: 26, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 9, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 54, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]112[/TD]
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[FONT=&quot][Clement (A.D. 100) to Gregory the Great (A.D. 600)], collected by Isidore Mercator in the 9th century. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The donation reads in part as follows in Latin: [/FONT]

... ut sicut B. Petrus in terris VICARIUS FILII DEI esse videtur constitutus, ita et Pontifices, qui ipsius principis apostolorum gerunt vices, principatus potestatem amplius quam terrena imperialis nostrae serenitatis mansuetudo habere videtur, conscessam a nobis nostroque imperio obtineant...

[FONT=&quot]In English that is-[/FONT]

... as the Blessed Peter is seen to have been constituted vicar of the Son of God on the earth, so the Pontiffs who are the representatives of that same chief of the apostles, should obtain from us and our empire the power of a supremacy greater than the clemency of our earthly imperial serenity is seen to have conceded to it,...

The Pope's have what is known as a tiara, that means a triple crown, a triply high crown, three levels. The beast can be identified. You find a man whose name, when added up adds up to 666, or a man whose title adds up to 666. Now, Iglesia ni Cristo says two things. One, that the title of the Pope, in Latin, is Vicarius Filii Dei, and second, that that title appears on the three bands of the tiara.

If you study the other identifiable marks of the beast the Roman Church fits all the points.

What is the mark of the Roman Church? ??

MatthewG · Feb 23, 2018

7 seals 7 trumpets 7 bowls

I haven't check this out for myself, but these are progressional things to happen as the end started, if you go and look at them side by side.

So a little bit would be revealed about whatever is going on, then the next one would be progressional from the start of the first.

Unless I been told wrong about this.

Pipiripi · Feb 23, 2018

Mark of the beast is transgression to God's LAW!

Ahwatukee · Feb 23, 2018

Hello MatthewG

I think you mean chronological order as in, 1st seal thru 7th seal, 1st trumpet thru 7th trumpet, 1st bowl thru 7th bowl.

The time of God's wrath begins with the opening of the first seal, which is followed by the 2nd seal and so on.

Envision this: You have a scroll that has seven seals (wax stamps), with each seal fixed to the same parchment. When you open the first seal, you are able to unravel it until you come to the next seal and must stop, because that 2nd seal is also fixed to the parchment, and so on and so on. Therefore, when the 1st seal is opened, it will only reveal what is written on that piece of the parchment. In order to see what is under the 2nd seal the seal must be broken from the parchment, which unravels to reveal the information written under that part of the parchment, which stops when it gets to the 3rd seal and that because it is also fixed to the parchment and must be broken, and so on, and so on. That said, the information regarding the trumpets and bowl judgments cannot be read until all of the seals have been broken.

TMS · Feb 23, 2018

Pipiripi said:

That is exactly what the roman CC promotes.

MatthewG · Feb 23, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

Good morning, Ahwatukee.

Right, what you said makes send to me, the first 1 seal, 1 trumpet 1 bowl are all together 1, from start to finish.

Like the Second Seal, Second, Trumpet, Second Bowl, co-relate with each other, and are a progress from the first.

The Third Seal, Third Trumpet, Third Bowl, even more a progression from the second.

The Fourth Seal, Fourth Trumpet, Fourth Bowl, even more of a progression than the Third. They all relate with each other each one as it keeps going forth.

Of course I have not put them all by side by side myself, but I have a teach, who has been going through the revelation lately, and is almost done from Chapter 1 - 16.

I believe they can all be explained in their context, and be seen from the pretrist view, it's the only view I know that packs so much information for those who do not know the revelation giving in context line by line, and keeping in mind everything that Had been said ever since the first chapter of learning.

Ahwatukee · Feb 23, 2018

Please go back and read the post. You did it again, by misquoting me. To be clear, the first seal, first trumpet and first bowl, do not run at the same time. Here is what I said:

"I think you mean chronological order as in, 1st seal thru 7th seal, 1st trumpet thru 7th trumpet, 1st bowl thru 7th bowl."

Did you understand anything that I said regarding the "seal" (wax stamp)? Each seal is attached to the parchment and must be opened taking place in order as demonstrated below:

1st Seal

2nd Seal

3rd Seal

4th Seal

5th Seal

6th Seal

7th Seal

-----1st Trumpet

----- 2nd Trumpet

----- 3rd Trumpet

----- 4th Trumpet

----- 5th Trumpet

----- 6th Trumpet

----- 7th Trumpet

---------- 1st Bowl

---------- 2nd Bowl

---------- 3rd Bowl

---------- 4th Bowl

---------- 5th Bowl

---------- 6th Bowl

---------- 7th Bowl

Jesus returns to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

So, seals first, followed by the trumpets and completing God's wrath are the bowl judgments.

garee · Feb 23, 2018

MatthewG said:

Exactly .Hiding the spiritual understanding from the literalist in parables is where the confusion comes in.

666 is the number assigned to natural unconverted man as a restless wanderer (no sabbath rest) . The mark of Cain or the mark of Esau in respect to buying and selling spiritual truth .He sold his birthright for a bowl of soup.

The idea of waiting for technology to advance before we can understand spiritual truth only supports the literalist.

And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.Gen 4:10

Joseppi · Feb 23, 2018

The seventh trumpet sounds in Revelation 11:15 and the result is that Jesus Christ has come and the kingdoms of this world on earth have become his.

The wrath of God comes in verse Revelation 11:18 above, and it is plainly stated as so.

MatthewG · Feb 23, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

I see, I didn't understand fully. But I do want to share something with you Ahwatukee, and that is this what I was trying to say earlier about them, is that the Trumpet Judgments, and the Bowl Judgments, co-relate with each other, and so does the Egyptian Plagues of the Old Testament.

Joseppi · Feb 23, 2018

The Devil hasn’t been an accuser before God, since the cross.
This basic truth came with the preaching of the gospel.

gotime · Feb 23, 2018

Keep in mind that the seals and the trumpets and the bowls are all attached to a different piece of furniture in the sanctuary.

Candle stick, churches.
table shew bread, seals
altar incense, trumpets
ark covenant, bowls.

Thus all are centred in the time of Jesus ministry as High priest. After the death and resurrection and finishing with the coming of Christ.

So all could deal with the beginning of Christs ministry to the end of His ministry as High priest. But all differ in their specific purpose. Thus they will not line up perfectly but will cover in general the same time periods from different ministry perspectives.

Take it or leave it. Just my two cents.

iamsoandso · Feb 23, 2018

Forever,,,theres not any "end of his ministry" or "finishing with the coming" Psalm 110:4 and Hebrews 7:17,,,

Ahwatukee · Feb 23, 2018

gotime said:

Greetings Gottime,

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which is the wrath of God, will take place in the exact order that they appear in Revelation and will not begin until after the church has been gathered. They are events of wrath that will take place one after another and will become more intense like birth pains as the time draws near to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, which is after the 7th bowl has been poured out and which completes God's wrath.

The first seal rider on the white horse symbolically represents the antichrist, therefore since he has not yet been revealed, then none of the other events of wrath could not have possibly taken place, as they will go in order.

gotime · Feb 24, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

Thanx Ahwatukee, I don't see that at all in the book of revelation, but appreciate your point of view. I personally could not reconcile that with what I have come to see in the book.

Ahwatukee · Feb 24, 2018

gotime said:

First of all, it is not my point of view! It is the order in which the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments appear in Revelation. So, how can you say that you don't see that at all in the book of Revelation, when the chronological order in Revelation lists seals 1 thru 7, followed by Trumpets 1 thru 7 and then the bowl judgments 1 thru 7. I don't have to prove that, because that is the order that they appear in.

Furthermore, considering the make-up of a scroll, there is no way to take them out of the order that they appear in, as each seal (wax stamp), has to be opened in their numbered order. I could never understand why people read about the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, and then attempt to rearrange them. I've done the study myself, but I could not get them to take place in any other order other than the order God put them in.

gotime · Feb 24, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

I agree the seals are in order no problem there. The trumpets are in order also etc.

But remember this is the revelation of Jesus Christ who Hebrews tells us ministers as High priest in the heavenly sanctuary. which is what we see in Revelation.

So I read it in that context, he started at his ministry and all found their start.

So I see the seals and the trumpets spanning a similar time period of Christs ministry.

The bowls come afterwards because the High priest did not minister in the Most holy every day, but once at the end. Thus they do not start until like revelation says the door is opened and the ark is seen.

there is a little overlap there with the trumpets, Because the altar of incense was involved heavily on the one day the High priest entered there to end everything.

Anyway that is a small break down. I wont go into detail as I am sure you don't have the time.

There is a whole lot of reasons why I don't ascribe to your view on this.

I also can not see the Antichrist on the horse in the first seal.

But hey that is fine. I don't need to have my position heard. Just putting in my two cents for those who are interested.

Ahwatukee · Feb 24, 2018

gotime said:

What I see above is just misapplied scripture. This has to do with the fulfillment of the day of the Lord, the events of wrath that will take place after the church has been removed. Those events of wrath could not have taken place at any other time in history and that because of their severity and uniqueness. They are meant to decimate the majority of the earth's population and dismantle all human government, which is what the Rock falling on the feet of the statute and smashing it to pieces represents in Dan.2:31-46. This fact is also supported by when Jesus said, "except those days were shortened, no one would survive."

The fact remains, that the 1st seal rider on the white horse is symbolically representing the antichrist. He is a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11-21, which is the Lord.

I find that the disagreement mainly comes from those who are have formed their conclusions while lacking full exegesis of end-time events and/or who just ignore the scriptural reasoning that is given.

I'm not guessing nor giving my personal point of view. But what I am proclaiming is that the scriptures demonstrate that 1). the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments could not have possibly taken place yet and 2). The church cannot and will not be subjected to God's wrath.

As a high priest, Jesus ministers to those who belong to him, not the wicked in the world. Also, the Lord will not be acting has high priest, but as the One who tramples the wine-press of the wrath of God Almighty, which He will accomplish via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

gotime · Feb 24, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

What I see above is just misapplied scripture. This has to do with the fulfillment of the day of the Lord, the events of wrath that will take place after the church has been removed. Those events of wrath could not have taken place at any other time in history and that because of their severity and uniqueness. They are meant to decimate the majority of the earth's population and dismantle all human government, which is what the Rock falling on the feet of the statute and smashing it to pieces represents in Dan.2:31-46. This fact is also supported by when Jesus said, "except those days were shortened, no one would survive."

The fact remains, that the 1st seal rider on the white horse is symbolically representing the antichrist. He is a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11-21, which is the Lord.

I find that the disagreement mainly comes from those who are have formed their conclusions while lacking full exegesis of end-time events and/or who just ignore the scriptural reasoning that is given.

I'm not guessing nor giving my personal point of view. But what I am proclaiming is that the scriptures demonstrate that 1). the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments could not have possibly taken place yet and 2). The church cannot and will not be subjected to God's wrath.

As a high priest, Jesus ministers to those who belong to him, not the wicked in the world. Also, the Lord will not be acting has high priest, but as the One who tramples the wine-press of the wrath of God Almighty, which He will accomplish via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

Like I said I disagree, I seems to me you have the whole foundation wrong and thus the rest is out also. I know you don't see it that way. And that is fine.

Not much point discussing it here. way to much to talk about and its much better done in person. You don't have to agree with me.

Cheers mate.

Pipiripi · Feb 24, 2018

When I finished about the rapture I will write the true meaning biblical of the Mark of the beast.

mark of the beast

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