Is there more than one God

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GraceBeUntoYou

Guest
#41
Would you like to debate Calvinism/Doctrines of Grace? Calvinism is Christianity.I You put forth a cowardly excuse, and just an easy way to not converse with people that challenge your false and heretical doctrines, and actually know what they're talking about.

There's a reason the United Pentecostal Church was excommunicated from the Assemblies of God (also Pentecostal).. the denial of the Trinity.
 
G

GraceBeUntoYou

Guest
#42
I have noticed two things by your statement in this post.
#1 Looks like you talked your self into a circle.
#2 You are trying to use you finite mind to understand an infinite God, rather than just believing His word.

Until you correct your error in reasoning, I do not know if i can help you.
I do believe His word. All I've done is cite Scripture, and you have yet to respond back with any Scriptural evidence. Explain Isaiah 48, John 17:5, John 17:22, Revelation 5. Hello? Obviously!

And I suppose Jesus also cried out to Himself while He was on the cross, and I guess He talked to Himself when He prayed to the Father.


 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#43
I do believe His word. All I've done is cite Scripture, and you have yet to respond back with any Scriptural evidence. Explain Isaiah 48, John 17:5, John 17:22, Revelation 5. Hello? Obviously!

And I suppose Jesus also cried out to Himself while He was on the cross, and I guess He talked to Himself when He prayed to the Father.
Arguing with Forerunner is like Balaam's donkey trying to correct the half mad energized Balaam from completing his heretical mission.



Good donkey... good donkey... trying to stop Forerunner.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#44
THE DEFINITION OF GOD'S UNITY:​

"Unity" literally means "oneness." God is one Being, in contrast to many beings. There is one and only one God (monotheism) as opposed to many gods (polytheism).​

There are three related words that should be distinguished:​

(1) Unity-There are not two or more gods.
(2) Simplicity-There are not two or more parts in God.​

HOWEVER:​

(3) Triunity-There are three persons in the one God.

The Scriptures affirm God's absolute unity from the beginning to the very end. The oneness of the Godhead is one of the most fundamental teachings of Scripture. Topical evidences include the theological basis for God's unity and the historical basis for God's unity.

With that in mind, we progress into;

THE BIBLICAL BASIS FOR THE TRINITY:

The doctrine of the Trinity is based on two basic biblical teachings:

(1) There is one and only one God.

The biblical, theological, and historical evidence for God's absolute
oneness has been established in scripture and history. We shall now address the second biblical teaching...

(2) There are three distinct persons who are God: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Three Different Persons Are God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

In addition to declaring God to be one in nature or essence, the scriptures affirm that there are three distinct persons who are God. All are called God, and all have the essential characteristics of a person. Personhood is traditionally understood as one who has intellect, feelings, and will.

All three of these characteristics are attributed to all three members of the Trinity in Scripture. Essentially, personhood refers to an "I," a "who," or a subject. Each "I" in the Trinity possesses (by virtue of its one common nature) the power to think, feel, and choose. Personhood itself is its I-ness or who-ness.

That Christ is God is affirmed in many passages and in many ways, both directly and indirectly. Yahweh is only used to refer to the one true God. No other person or thing was to be worshiped or served (Ex. 20:5), and His name and glory were not to be given to another.

Jesus prayed, "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began" (John 17:5)-this is an obvious claim for Christ's deity, for Jehovah of the Old Testament said, "My glory will I not give to another" (Isa. 42:8 NKJV). Jesus also declared, "I am the First and the Last" (Rev. l:l7)-precisely the words used by Jehovah in Isaiah 44:6. He said, "I am the good shepherd," (John 10:11), and the Old Testament said, "Jehovah is my shepherd" (Ps. 23:l ASV).

Further, Jesus claimed to be the judge of all men (John 5:27; Matt. 25:31), and Joel quotes Jehovah as saying, "There I will sit to judge all the nations on every side" (Joel 3:12). Likewise, Jesus spoke of Himself as the "bridegroom" (Matt. 25:lf.) while the Old Testament identifies Jehovah in this way (Isa. 62:5; Hosea 2:16). While the psalmist declares, "Jehovah is my light" (Ps. 27:l ASVJ) Jesus said, "I am the light of the world" (John 8:12).

Perhaps the strongest claim Jesus made to be Jehovah is in John 8:12 where He says, "Before Abraham was born, I am!" This statement claims not only existence before Abraham, but equality with the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14. The Jews around Jesus clearly understood His meaning and picked up stones to kill Him for blaspheming (cf. John 10:31-33). The same claim is also made in Mark 14:62 and John 18:5-6.

Jesus professed deity in other ways, one of which was by claiming for himself the perogatives of God such as forgiving sin (Mark 2:5). The scribes correctly responded with "Who can forgive but God alone?" afterwards. So to prove that His claim was not an empty boast, He healed the man, offering direct proof that what He had said about forgiving sins was true also. Jesus claimed, due only to God, the power to raise and judge the dead; boldly assumed for Himself powers that only God has; and claimed that he should be be honored as God.

Jesus Claimed to Be Messiah-God. The Old Testament teaches that the coming Messiah would be God Himself, so when Jesus claimed to be that Messiah, He was also claiming to be God. Jesus Claimed to Be God by Accepting Worship. The Old Testament forbids worshiping anyone other than God (Ex. 20:l-5; Deut. 5:6-9). The New Testament agrees, showing that men refused worship (Acts 14:13-15), as did angels (Rev. 22:8-9). But Jesus accepted worship on numerous occasions, revealing that He claimed to be God.

Jesus Claimed to Have Equal Authority With God. "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:18-19).

Jesus Claimed to Be God by Requesting Prayer in His Name. Jesus not only asked people to believe in Him and obey His commandments, but He also asked them to pray in His name: "And I will do whatever you ask in my name...You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it" (John 14:13-14).

Jesus Claimed to Be God by His Use of Parables. Jesus' Disciples Acknowledged His Claim to Be God. Etc... etc... etc...
All members of the Trinity are equal in essence, but they do not have the same roles. In brief, the Father is the Planner, the Son is the Accomplisher, and the Holy Spirit is the Applier of salvation to believers.

What scripture plainly teaches is that God has one and only one essence (nature) and that it is not contradictory to have three persons in one essence.

All members of the Trinity are equal in essence, but they do not have the same roles. It is a heresy (called subordinationism) to affirm that there is an ontological subordination of one member of the Trinity to another, since they are identical in essence.

Nonetheless, it is clear that there is a finctional subordination; that is, not only does each member have a different function or role, but some functions are also subordinate to others.

By His very title of "Father" and His label of "the first person of the Trinity," it is manifest thit His function is superior to that of the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Father, for example, is presented as the Source, Sender, and Planner of salvation.​

The Son, on the other hand, is the Means, Sent One, and Achiever of salvation. The Father sent, and the Son came to save us; the Father planned it, but the Son accomplished it on the cross. This is why it is a heresy (called patripassianism) to claim that the Father suffered on the cross only the son suffered and died. Further, the Son is eternally "begotten" or "generated" from the Father, but the Father is never said to be "begotten" or "generated from anyone.​

According to orthodox Western theology, the Holy Spirit proceeds both from the Father and the Son (see John 15:26). Jesus said, "When the Counselor comes, whom I will sent to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, He will testify about me" (John 15:26).​

Their functional roles are as follows: the Father is the Planner, the Son is the Accomplisher, and the Holy Spirit is the Applier of salvation to believers. However, they are all equal in essence as God.​

Jesus, as God, in his role as God the son the accomplisher of our salvation makes intercession for us just as the Bible says that He does in Hebrews 5 as our perfect high priest (e.g. a functional role).​

One final word about the nature and duration of this functional subordination in the Godhead. It is not just temporal and economical; it is essential and eternal. For example, the Son is an eternal Son (see Prov. 30:4; Heb. 1:3). He did not become God's Son; He always was related to God the Father as a Son and always will be. His submission to the Father was not just for time but will be for all eternity.​

Paul wrote: "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom of God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor. 15:24, 28).​

What a joy it is to know God in all His fullness: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord for another opportunity to share it. I love sharing the truth of God's Word!
 
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Saint

Guest
#45
how many threads are there that lead to the arguments about the trinity? so far, i count 5.

anyways, as an answer to the first thread, God uses the plural because God is more than one thing. God is complex. Even if you don't believe that Jesus is God, it says that God has 7 Spirits in Revalations.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#46
how many threads are there that lead to the arguments about the trinity? so far, i count 5.

anyways, as an answer to the first thread, God uses the plural because God is more than one thing. God is complex. Even if you don't believe that Jesus is God, it says that God has 7 Spirits in Revalations.
Yes there are four people on I've counted that are bound and determined they are going to turn Christian Chat into an anti-Trinity forum despite the Trinity being clearly taught in scripture.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#47
how many threads are there that lead to the arguments about the trinity? so far, i count 5.

anyways, as an answer to the first thread, God uses the plural because God is more than one thing. God is complex. Even if you don't believe that Jesus is God, it says that God has 7 Spirits in Revalations.
Is five enough? Perhaps we should go for seven? It is the number of completion. lol.
 
S

Saint

Guest
#48
Yes there are four people on I've counted that are bound and determined they are going to turn Christian Chat into an anti-Trinity forum despite the Trinity being clearly taught in scripture.
I know, i had thought that they simply had not read those places in Scripture, like where Jesus is called the TRUE GOD, but even after i have shown them, they still don't see. i guess it's one of those "whoever has an ear let him hear" deals.

Is five enough? Perhaps we should go for seven? It is the number of completion. lol.
haha! perhaps 777? maybe we can have a contest to see how many this site can hold?
 
P

Ponderer

Guest
#49
Hey guys, what’s all the “hubbub” about? Everybody knows that in heaven and in the earth there are many gods and many lords. Right?

But what most everybody doesn’t know and doesn’t want to believe is that there is really only ONE GOD (a.k.a. the Father) and only ONE LORD (a.k.a. Jesus Christ).

And what’s really amazing about all this is that ALL THINGS came OUT FROM that ONE GOD (a.k.a. the Father) Who then brought ALL OF THOSE THINGS into existence THROUGH that ONE LORD (a.k.a. Jesus Christ)!

Neat, huh?

It’s too bad only a few are aware of this.
 
Jun 29, 2010
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#50
I do believe His word. All I've done is cite Scripture, and you have yet to respond back with any Scriptural evidence. Explain Isaiah 48, John 17:5, John 17:22, Revelation 5. Hello? Obviously!

And I suppose Jesus also cried out to Himself while He was on the cross, and I guess He talked to Himself when He prayed to the Father.


This should explain it for ya, but I doubt you'll get it.

God is one and has always been one. Jesus is the man God became. Jesus did not exist before incarnation as God the Son. In His pre-incarnate state, He existed as the Father, God Himself. Now the two of them are in heaven together, God the Father and the man he became, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The problem is that when I say the Father became a man people think it means I believe he stopped being an eternal Spirit after incarnation and that heaven was empty. This is not what I believe. God the Father continued to exist as a transcendent, unlimited Spirit, while also becoming a man. The Father did not become confined to a human existence. It is not as though the omnipresent Spirit of God transformed Himself into a man, to the exclusion of His existence as the Holy Spirit.

When God assumed a human existence with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while he continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of His humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. While I confess that the deity of the Son did pre-exist incarnation, I do not see that deity as the second person of the Trinity, known as " God the Son ", and separate from the Father or Holy Spirit, but rather as the uni-personal God of the old testament. Yahweh, the Father, the Great I Am.

Concerning the Holy Spirit, I believe He is the Spirit of God the Father and not a separate person of the Trinity, the third person known as " God the Holy Spirit. " The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, He is the Spirit of the Father, He is the Spirit of Christ. God is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit. There is one God not three, nor are there three persons that create one God. He is one uni-personal God that He himself became flesh. There is no such person as God the son nor God the Holy Spirit but only God the Father, the son of God and the Spirit of God.
 
Jun 29, 2010
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#51
GraceBeUntoYou;346775[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode said:


And I suppose Jesus also cried out to Himself while He was on the cross, and I guess He talked to Himself when He prayed to the Father.


[/FONT]
An here is the answer to that absurd question.

Did Jesus pray to Himself ? No, not when we understand that Jesus was both God and man. In His deity Jesus did not pray, for God does not need to pray to anyone. As a man, Jesus prayed to God, not to his humanity. He did not pray to Himself as humanity, but to the one true God, to the same God who dwelled in His humanity and who also inhabits the universe. No further explanation is given, and none is needed.

Jesus' prayers open our understanding to the majesty of the Incarnation, for through them we grasp the divine-human relationship between God and His Son. Trinitarians often refer to statements Jesus made about His father, including those in His prayers, in an effort to prove that two persons were involved - who they identify as God the Son and God the Father. Since they reason that only persons and not natures communicate with each other, they regard the prayers as clear evidence that Jesus is a separate person from "the Father". Moreover, they cite Jesus' remarks about the Father as scriptural support for the Trinitarian theory. However, the prayers and remarks by Jesus destroy any concept of God as being a trinity of co-equal, and co-existent persons.

The Bible clearly distinguishes God the Father from His Son. The Son was born in Bethlehem, but the eternal God does not know a beginning. The Son grew into maturity - physically, mentally, socially, and spiritually. He became tired, hungry, weary, sleepy - just as other men. Although He did not commit sin, He was tempted in all points as other men are tempted. He suffered from the trials in Jerusalem and died on the cross-just as the two thieves also died. God does not grow, nor can He die. These facts alone clearly distinguish the Son from the Father.
 
Jun 29, 2010
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#52
Scriptures that say Jesus is God or that say Jesus is the Father.
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

1st John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


The Father Himself calls Jesus God in Hebrews
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.



Scriptures that tell us there is but one God and that that one God is the Father.
1st Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
And when Jesus was praying to His Father He said this.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

These scripture confirm that there is but one God the Father so if Jesus is God, and the only true God is the Father then the deity of Christ must be??????
 
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S

Saint

Guest
#53
I do believe His word. All I've done is cite Scripture, and you have yet to respond back with any Scriptural evidence. Explain Isaiah 48, John 17:5, John 17:22, Revelation 5. Hello? Obviously!

And I suppose Jesus also cried out to Himself while He was on the cross, and I guess He talked to Himself when He prayed to the Father.
I can help with the explaining, but i'm not sure which part in Isaiah 48 you are refering to, and i'd really like to answer all of these at once. so before i explain, i'll ask you to explain these verses that i and a few others have asked in the other 4 or 5 threads concerning this: Isaiah 9:6, where one of Jesus' names is "Everlasting Father" John 10:30 and 1 John 5:7, which both say that the Father and Jesus are one, John 1, which says that Jesus is the Word, and that the "Word was God" Colossians 2:8 which says that Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead, Romans 9:5 which says that Christ is God, and 1 John 5:20, which says that Jesus is the true God

forgive me if you have answered one or more of these, but there are just far too many of these threads for me to keep track

EDIT: wow, i started this post before forerunner posted all of that, so i didn't see it until now. anyways, my offer still stands.
 
S

Saint

Guest
#54
oh, and we all have argued in "Oneness vs Trinity" "Perfect" "Do you believe Jesus is God?" another "Oneness vs Trinity" in the teens forums and some more that i can't quite remember right now, so if you want to see why we believe what we believe, you can try looking at one of those places.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#55
THE DEFINITION OF GOD'S UNITY:​

"Unity" literally means "oneness." God is one Being, in contrast to many beings. There is one and only one God (monotheism) as opposed to many gods (polytheism).​

There are three related words that should be distinguished:​

(1) Unity-There are not two or more gods.
(2) Simplicity-There are not two or more parts in God.​

HOWEVER:​

(3) Triunity-There are three persons in the one God.

The Scriptures affirm God's absolute unity from the beginning to the very end. The oneness of the Godhead is one of the most fundamental teachings of Scripture. Topical evidences include the theological basis for God's unity and the historical basis for God's unity.

With that in mind, we progress into;

THE BIBLICAL BASIS FOR THE TRINITY:

The doctrine of the Trinity is based on two basic biblical teachings:

(1) There is one and only one God.

The biblical, theological, and historical evidence for God's absolute oneness has been established in scripture and history. We shall now address the second biblical teaching...

(2) There are three distinct persons who are God: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Three Different Persons Are God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

In addition to declaring God to be one in nature or essence, the scriptures affirm that there are three distinct persons who are God. All are called God, and all have the essential characteristics of a person. Personhood is traditionally understood as one who has intellect, feelings, and will.

All three of these characteristics are attributed to all three members of the Trinity in Scripture. Essentially, personhood refers to an "I," a "who," or a subject. Each "I" in the Trinity possesses (by virtue of its one common nature) the power to think, feel, and choose. Personhood itself is its I-ness or who-ness.

That Christ is God is affirmed in many passages and in many ways, both directly and indirectly. Yahweh is only used to refer to the one true God. No other person or thing was to be worshiped or served (Ex. 20:5), and His name and glory were not to be given to another.

Jesus prayed, "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began" (John 17:5)-this is an obvious claim for Christ's deity, for Jehovah of the Old Testament said, "My glory will I not give to another" (Isa. 42:8 NKJV). Jesus also declared, "I am the First and the Last" (Rev. l:l7)-precisely the words used by Jehovah in Isaiah 44:6. He said, "I am the good shepherd," (John 10:11), and the Old Testament said, "Jehovah is my shepherd" (Ps. 23:l ASV).

Further, Jesus claimed to be the judge of all men (John 5:27; Matt. 25:31), and Joel quotes Jehovah as saying, "There I will sit to judge all the nations on every side" (Joel 3:12). Likewise, Jesus spoke of Himself as the "bridegroom" (Matt. 25:lf.) while the Old Testament identifies Jehovah in this way (Isa. 62:5; Hosea 2:16). While the psalmist declares, "Jehovah is my light" (Ps. 27:l ASVJ) Jesus said, "I am the light of the world" (John 8:12).

Perhaps the strongest claim Jesus made to be Jehovah is in John 8:12 where He says, "Before Abraham was born, I am!" This statement claims not only existence before Abraham, but equality with the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14. The Jews around Jesus clearly understood His meaning and picked up stones to kill Him for blaspheming (cf. John 10:31-33). The same claim is also made in Mark 14:62 and John 18:5-6.

Jesus professed deity in other ways, one of which was by claiming for himself the perogatives of God such as forgiving sin (Mark 2:5). The scribes correctly responded with "Who can forgive but God alone?" afterwards. So to prove that His claim was not an empty boast, He healed the man, offering direct proof that what He had said about forgiving sins was true also. Jesus claimed, due only to God, the power to raise and judge the dead; boldly assumed for Himself powers that only God has; and claimed that he should be be honored as God.

Jesus Claimed to Be Messiah-God. The Old Testament teaches that the coming Messiah would be God Himself, so when Jesus claimed to be that Messiah, He was also claiming to be God. Jesus Claimed to Be God by Accepting Worship. The Old Testament forbids worshiping anyone other than God (Ex. 20:l-5; Deut. 5:6-9). The New Testament agrees, showing that men refused worship (Acts 14:13-15), as did angels (Rev. 22:8-9). But Jesus accepted worship on numerous occasions, revealing that He claimed to be God.

Jesus Claimed to Have Equal Authority With God. "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:18-19).

Jesus Claimed to Be God by Requesting Prayer in His Name. Jesus not only asked people to believe in Him and obey His commandments, but He also asked them to pray in His name: "And I will do whatever you ask in my name...You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it" (John 14:13-14).

Jesus Claimed to Be God by His Use of Parables. Jesus' Disciples Acknowledged His Claim to Be God. Etc... etc... etc...

All members of the Trinity are equal in essence, but they do not have the same roles. In brief, the Father is the Planner, the Son is the Accomplisher, and the Holy Spirit is the Applier of salvation to believers.

What scripture plainly teaches is that God has one and only one essence (nature) and that it is not contradictory to have three persons in one essence.

All members of the Trinity are equal in essence, but they do not have the same roles. It is a heresy (called subordinationism) to affirm that there is an ontological subordination of one member of the Trinity to another, since they are identical in essence.

Nonetheless, it is clear that there is a finctional subordination; that is, not only does each member have a different function or role, but some functions are also subordinate to others.

By His very title of "Father" and His label of "the first person of the Trinity," it is manifest thit His function is superior to that of the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Father, for example, is presented as the Source, Sender, and Planner of salvation.

The Son, on the other hand, is the Means, Sent One, and Achiever of salvation. The Father sent, and the Son came to save us; the Father planned it, but the Son accomplished it on the cross. This is why it is a heresy (called patripassianism) to claim that the Father suffered on the cross only the son suffered and died. Further, the Son is eternally "begotten" or "generated" from the Father, but the Father is never said to be "begotten" or "generated from anyone.​

According to orthodox Western theology, the Holy Spirit proceeds both from the Father and the Son (see John 15:26). Jesus said, "When the Counselor comes, whom I will sent to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, He will testify about me" (John 15:26).​

Their functional roles are as follows: the Father is the Planner, the Son is the Accomplisher, and the Holy Spirit is the Applier of salvation to believers. However, they are all equal in essence as God.​

Jesus, as God, in his role as God the son the accomplisher of our salvation makes intercession for us just as the Bible says that He does in Hebrews 5 as our perfect high priest (e.g. a functional role).​

One final word about the nature and duration of this functional subordination in the Godhead. It is not just temporal and economical; it is essential and eternal. For example, the Son is an eternal Son (see Prov. 30:4; Heb. 1:3). He did not become God's Son; He always was related to God the Father as a Son and always will be. His submission to the Father was not just for time but will be for all eternity.​

Paul wrote: "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom of God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor. 15:24, 28).​

What a joy it is to know God in all His fullness: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord for another opportunity to share it. I love sharing the truth of God's Word!
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#56
However, the prayers and remarks by Jesus destroy any concept of God as being a trinity of co-equal, and co-existent persons.
Absolutely not! :)

The Bible teaches that Jesus is God (John 1:1) and that He knows all things (John 224; Col. 2:2-3). On the other hand, He "grew in wisdom" (Luke 2:52) and sometimes did not seem to know certain things (cf. John 11:34). Indeed, He denied knowing the time of His own second coming here and in Mark 13:32, saying, "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."​

We must distinguish between what Jesus knew as God (everything) and what He knew as man (not everything). As God, Jesus was omniscient (all-knowing), but as man He was limited in His knowledge. This passage is not a denial of the deity of Christ; rather, it is in harmony with the distinction between the two natures of Christ, one divine and one human. A reciprocity of personal knowledge between God the Father and God the Son is affirmed in scripture.​

This teaching is taught by every mainstream conservative Christian seminary I've ever interacted with. CARM, a mainstream Christian apologetic ministry, elaborates on it as follows:​

"As a man, Jesus walked and talked. As God He was worshipped (Matt. 14:33; 28:9; Heb. 1:6), prayed to (Zech. 13:9; 1 Cor. 1:2), etc. This is called the Hypostatic Union.​

During His earthly ministry He moved in the power of the Holy Spirit and did His miracles by the Holy Spirit and not by His own divine power. This is because He was made for a little while lower than the angels (Heb. 2:9) and had emptied Himself and taken on the form of a man (Phil. 2:7).​

This would explain why in Matt. 12:22-32, when the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the devil, Jesus said that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would never be forgiven? Why? Because Jesus, as a man who was ministering completely as a man under the Law (Gal. 4:4-5), did His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit.

This demonstrates that Christ was completely human and dependent upon God and that He was cooperating with the limitations of being human. That is why He said He didn't know the day or hour of His return.

However, we see that after the resurrection of Christ it is said of Him that He knows all things (John 21:17) and that He is omnipresent (Matt. 28:20). Therefore, after His resurrection and glorification, the Lord Jesus did know all things."

It's clear, systematic, and logical just like mainstream conservative Christian theology should be.

Isn't sound doctrine good. It's good to read it and reread it and then read it again. Praise the Lord for this proper understanding. :) God bless.
 
Jun 29, 2010
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#57
Why would post the exact same post on the same page of the same thread>????
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#58
Why would post the exact same post on the same page of the same thread>????
To repeatedly correct the same heresy being repeatedly posted. But since we're on the subject, here's a great article scripturally showing Jesus' divinity. You should read it and not just ignore it. Dr. Miller Ph.D. does a fantastic job of showing yet again that Jesus is the third person of the Trinity (Praise God in all his fullness: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit):

Jesus’ Claims to Deity by Dave Miller, Ph.D.

Apologetics Press - Jesus’ Claims to Deity

It is one thing for a human being to claim to be divine. Many in history have done so. But it is quite another for such an individual to prove it. Jesus Christ stands out from all other persons who have inhabited the planet in that His claim to divinity actually was proven to be true. The book of John is certainly one prominent witness among the books of the New Testament that report this fact. Since Johns book was written for the explicit purpose of demonstrating “that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” (John 20:31), it is not surprising that the deity of Christ is asserted over and over, in many forms, on virtually every page...

[Read article for rest of content]

One day all human beings will stand before Jesus Christ and give account of their earthly behavior: “For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: ‘As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God” (Romans 14:10-11, emp. added). “Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11, emp. added). May we emulate the example of Thomas, blending our voices with his, in our mutual affirmation of Jesus: “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28).
 
Jun 29, 2010
398
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#59
To repeatedly correct the same heresy being repeatedly posted. But since we're on the subject, here's a great article scripturally showing Jesus' divinity. You should read it and not just ignore it. Dr. Miller Ph.D. does a fantastic job of showing yet again that Jesus is the third person of the Trinity (Praise God in all his fullness: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit):

Jesus’ Claims to Deity by Dave Miller, Ph.D.

Apologetics Press - Jesus’ Claims to Deity

It is one thing for a human being to claim to be divine. Many in history have done so. But it is quite another for such an individual to prove it. Jesus Christ stands out from all other persons who have inhabited the planet in that His claim to divinity actually was proven to be true. The book of John is certainly one prominent witness among the books of the New Testament that report this fact. Since Johns book was written for the explicit purpose of demonstrating “that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” (John 20:31), it is not surprising that the deity of Christ is asserted over and over, in many forms, on virtually every page...

[Read article for rest of content]

One day all human beings will stand before Jesus Christ and give account of their earthly behavior: “For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: ‘As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God” (Romans 14:10-11, emp. added). “Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11, emp. added). May we emulate the example of Thomas, blending our voices with his, in our mutual affirmation of Jesus: “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28).
You are the very last person on this forum I would pay any attention to.

By the way i have never denied the deity of Christ.

You dont even read my post you just on the attack huh?
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#60
Try to focus on the scripturally accurate information being presented. It's a blessing and the information goes far beyond just showing Jesus as God. It shows Jesus as the third person in the Trinity exactly what scripture teaches. God loves you and wants you to come into the fullness of His truth. I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time with it. Peace. :)