WHY DOESN'T GOD HEAL EVERYONE?

[stonesoffire]

Yes, it really is our call to judge. And considering Bill goes on sermons for 45 minutes explaining gold dust floating in his church, and considering he does have a school -- with tuition -- to teach kids how to heal and how to use tarot cards for "ministry," he is the poster child for heretic. His face should be next to the word in the dictionary.

And God doesn't strike down every heretic before the damage is done. He has called his people to chase away the wolves. (Already gave that explanation with the Matthew Henry commentary a day or so ago.)

And, yeah, you can't call cessasasionist churches false, because you have to find one whose point is that, and then see what it is teaching. (Good luck with that. I've never found such a church.)

AND, who comes up with those words? Too hard to spell that word. Why can't it be nomiracleist? At least I can spell that word!

They aren't tarot cards but cards this certain ministry made up to show promises of a future through presenting talents and dreams that these new agers share with them. They dress like new age dress I guess. And this ministry only attended Bethel, but is not of their established ministries.

I wouldn't attempt to minister to anyone this way. So am just explaining what I read from their website. Plus, why hopes and dreams through pictures? Makes no sense to me. Perhaps explaining is all Bethel was doing?

Many churches state and teach that the gifts are not available. Some just teach salvation and these I can't say are false. As long as sinners are being added to the Kingdom, they are truth. A country club setting type church, which I've never encountered by the way, would be false and leading their people astray.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Hello, Dali!

(I so love his paintings.)

makes you think

 

[Depleted]

Please stop trying to add to what I said. What I said was that if believe in Christ, and are thus singularly minded and not double minded, then we will do the miracles that Christ did. That is the Word of God which I posted, and now you seem intent on spinning.

Besides the apostles, I believe many first century Christians were singularly minded in faith towards the Lord.
There may even be some today, but they certainly are few and far between.
For the most part, we are all currently double minded, placing our faith in Jesus, as well as in Mammon/money.

Right. Exactly what I've been saying about what you said, once I understood what you said. It is not God that does miracles; it is the strength of single-mindedness of people. (Even said that before too, although probably not exactly the same words. Then you went off onto some verse, and I kept sticking to original statement. And then you told me I agreed with you, and I told you I didn't.)

Might want to reread the whole conversation. I didn't spin. I stayed still, and watched you circle 380 degrees. (You started what you said above right at the 360 degree mark, but then kept spinning a little more to add the mammon/money thing into the mix.) So, you've started your second circle, and I'm still standing here telling you it has nothing to do the single-mindedness of a person. It's all the Lord. Not our strength. His. His will too.

Helpful hints about me:
1. I'm obsessive about a point, so I'm not good with spinning and spinning for argument's sake. I have a point. I give the point. You understand the point, or not, based on how well I did with communicating it. But then I go about working on that point until it is understood, and wait to see if you agree or disagree. If you disagree, then I expect to learn why, which does mean I will keep pressing for more info, if I don't get why the first time. But if we're going for a second argument, that only after the first is clarified.

2. I'm off-the-beaten path. While most people tread common ground and argue/debate/talk about that, I'm the weirdo that goes off and sees some small not-traveled-often path. And I like letting others see it's there too. I'm not big on beaten paths, because, well. They're so beaten everyone knows the area. Why keep going over something until it's bare ground? So I think in different ways, just in hopes I can get others to join in with me, and maybe think of something new. No big deal, other than it gives you a clue on why you won't usually see me beating a common ground point insistently. And good to know simply because it's easier thinking everyone is making the same points over and over again.

Not that it is related to our conversation other than to give you some idea of who you're talking to and some inkling why usual methods don't work for me. More of a time saver on trying to figure out me, than another argument.

 

[blue_ladybug]

And there you go, assuming again that you know what I think... You need to stop. Seriously... I believe God is sovereign, I just do NOT believe that He causes EVERYTHING that happens to us. You're not all-knowing, Lynn. Stop acting like you are..

Your point is God isn't sovereign. I've been getting your point a lot longer than you think.

 

[BenFTW]

But Lynn, she hasn't said God doesn't heal. She's said the exact opposite. She DID say she doesn't put much stock in laying on of hands and that it didn't work for her. But she also said it may work for some people.

Cause and effect? I just don't get it. This is like stepping out onto a pool of water to walk on water and concluding that "it doesn't work" because you sank. No, it obviously works as recorded in the Bible (Peter...). Likewise, laying on of hands for healing obviously works because scripture states so ("the prayer of faith shall save the sick"). To not put much stock in the laying on of hands is nearly equivalent to dismissing something God said (ie; calling God a liar).

Now I know Blue isn't calling God a liar. I know she does believe that God still heals today. I just... wish she would see that it could work for her. That she was prayed for by a Mormon organization, so indeed it was no surprise that the prayer didn't work (they are a cult). If we put two and two together, we can clearly see the issue. I am not against Blue, far from it. I am, as gently as I can, trying to lift the curtains so she can see the cause and effect here of why that prayer didn't work.

If I shouldn't do this, fine. But I did. So its done. I, as she said, may "allude to someone not having faith" but she doesn't realize that "not putting much stock into the laying on of hands" speaks for itself. I have nothing against her or any of you guys present. In the same way you feel that our doctrines bring hurt and pain, so we believe your doctrines keep others in pain and hurt.

I don't know what the middle ground is here. Maybe it isn't even a debate on doctrine but actually walking out the doctrine for others to see. We all agree God heals, so I suppose that is a middle ground. God heals, praise the Lord.

 

[Depleted]

They aren't tarot cards but cards this certain ministry made up to show promises of a future through presenting talents and dreams that these new agers share with them. They dress like new age dress I guess. And this ministry only attended Bethel, but is not of their established ministries.

I wouldn't attempt to minister to anyone this way. So am just explaining what I read from their website. Plus, why hopes and dreams through pictures? Makes no sense to me. Perhaps explaining is all Bethel was doing?

Many churches state and teach that the gifts are not available. Some just teach salvation and these I can't say are false. As long as sinners are being added to the Kingdom, they are truth. A country club setting type church, which I've never encountered by the way, would be false and leading their people astray.

Did get first paragraph. Didn't get some of second paragraph. And third paragraph was a mix of got/didn't get.

Making cards like tarot cards to fit in? Do they go in drag to homosexual bars to fit in too? It is a con game, not evangelism. What works for evangelism is to give the gospel. What doesn't work is to fit in, lovely concerts to bring 'em in, and teaching people how to lie for miracles and fortune telling. They do all the what doesn't work and none of the what does work. Thus con game.

(Didn't get pictures, hopes and dreams, so can't comment.)

Why is country club setting for a church false and leading people astray, but 45 minutes of talking about dust not that? Or pretending they have new tarot cards? Or showing people how to fake healings? (If laying on of hands didn't heal you of your health problem, at least you had an experience about God, so you were healed.) Or teaching people how to give fake fortune readings? Or calling concerts "worshiping" and then charging $20 a head to "worship?" Or listening to a "prophet" telling you "God will bless you this week. God will bless you this week. God will bless you this week. God will bless you this week." for 20 whole minutes as "the prophecy from the prophet?"

Country club setting? I have family members who are the country club kind of people, but really not into God at all, so never checked out where they went to church, if they went to church. I would imagine the polo-pony-people wouldn't be going to a tiny urban, musty-dusty church, but really don't know what they would go to. I don't judge by setting. I judge by what is taught. Given Bethel doesn't teach Bible, (even if they plop in a verse here and there to prove-a-point), they are fake!

 

[blue_ladybug]

SIGH... I NEVER said anything about cause and effect being why laying on of hands didn't work for me. I don't know how to state it any clearer than this: it DOES NOT WORK FOR EVERY ONE. And prior to that, I'd never had it done before, so I didn't know what to expect, but I DID fully believe I'd be instantly healed. I wasn't even GRADUALLY healed. And it didn't happen for ME.

I agree, God DOES heal. But He does NOT heal EVERY SINGLE PERSON on earth. That is my point, and has been all along. Why you and others here can't accept that fact, is beyond me.. WHY He doesn't heal ALL, is something only God gets to know. I don't need "the curtains" lifted. I see just fine.

Cause and effect? I just don't get it. This is like stepping out onto a pool of water to walk on water and concluding that "it doesn't work" because you sank. No, it obviously works as recorded in the Bible (Peter...). Likewise, laying on of hands for healing obviously works because scripture states so ("the prayer of faith shall save the sick"). To not put much stock in the laying on of hands is nearly equivalent to dismissing something God said (ie; calling God a liar).

Now I know Blue isn't calling God a liar. I know she does believe that God still heals today. I just... wish she would see that it could work for her. That she was prayed for by a Mormon organization, so indeed it was no surprise that the prayer didn't work (they are a cult). If we put two and two together, we can clearly see the issue. I am not against Blue, far from it. I am, as gently as I can, trying to lift the curtains so she can see the cause and effect here of why that prayer didn't work.

If I shouldn't do this, fine. But I did. So its done. I, as she said, may "allude to someone not having faith" but she doesn't realize that "not putting much stock into the laying on of hands" speaks for itself. I have nothing against her or any of you guys present. In the same way you feel that our doctrines bring hurt and pain, so we believe your doctrines keep others in pain and hurt.

I don't know what the middle ground is here. Maybe it isn't even a debate on doctrine but actually walking out the doctrine for others to see. We all agree God heals, so I suppose that is a middle ground. God heals, praise the Lord.

 

[BenFTW]

SIGH... I NEVER said anything about cause and effect being why laying on of hands didn't work for me. I don't know how to state it any clearer than this: it DOES NOT WORK FOR EVERY ONE. And prior to that, I'd never had it done before, so I didn't know what to expect, but I DID fully believe I'd be instantly healed. I wasn't even GRADUALLY healed. And it didn't happen for ME.

I agree, God DOES heal. But He does NOT heal EVERY SINGLE PERSON on earth. That is my point, and has been all along. Why you and others here can't accept that fact, is beyond me.. WHY He doesn't heal ALL, is something only God gets to know. I don't need "the curtains" lifted. I see just fine.

I was saying cause and effect, you weren't. Not putting much stock into the laying on of hands (doubt/disbelief) could be a reason why it wouldn't work (not why it didn't work, in the past). Why it didn't work in the past is that a cult prayed over you. These are not Christians. Their doctrines and beliefs are contrary to a lot of scripture, even going so far as to say one must believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet of god or you aren't saved.

All I am saying Blue is that for you to dismiss the laying on of hands for healing is contradictory to scripture, and you shouldn't allow your experience with a cult to warp your thinking about it (as you said, no big surprise, they are a cult!). You said that was the only time you were prayed for with the laying on of hands for healing, right? You said it was the last time you'd ever do it too, right? Why? Why not try it, have hope, and go again with an actual Christian organization with a reputation of people actually getting healed in their services?

I mean absolutely no disrespect Blue, and if for any reason you conclude I am being disrespectful, I apologize.

 

[blue_ladybug]

At the time, I did not know they were a cult. That they believe they will be gods and have their own planets and whatever... Scripture may say that we will be healed. It does NOT say God will heal ALL of us. Temporarily, maybe, yes. But not indefinitely or for good.

And once again, you intimate that I have doubt or disbelief. :/ I DON'T. But I'm not gonna go hither and yon, searching out person after person to lay hands on me, in hopes I can finally find the right one to get the job done.

And all the churches here in town, display the gay pride colors in their windows and doors. I flat out refuse to go to any services or even seek out a healer in one of those.

If God chooses to heal me someday, then good. If not, then that's good too.

I was saying cause and effect, you weren't. Not putting much stock into the laying on of hands (doubt/disbelief) could be a reason why it wouldn't work (not why it didn't work, in the past). Why it didn't work in the past is that a cult prayed over you. These are not Christians. Their doctrines and beliefs are contrary to a lot of scripture, even going so far as to say one must believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet of god or you aren't saved.

All I am saying Blue is that for you to dismiss the laying on of hands for healing is contradictory to scripture, and you shouldn't allow your experience with a cult to warp your thinking about it (as you said, no big surprise, they are a cult!). You said that was the only time you were prayed for with the laying on of hands for healing, right? You said it was the last time you'd ever do it too, right? Why? Why not try it, have hope, and go again with an actual Christian organization with a reputation of people actually getting healed in their services?

I mean absolutely no disrespect Blue, and if for any reason you conclude I am being disrespectful, I apologize.

 

[Katy-follower]

Matthew 5:45: "He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust"

This scripture popped up today as I was reading. It just reminded me that although we're not of this fallen world, we do still live in it, and are not immune to suffering and illness as a result. The rain falls on both the lost and us believers (we both get soaked, lol. I actually love the rain though ). So then on top of this, we're not of the world, so the world hates us too.

God still heals, but according to His will and His timing, and even then there's no guarantee for everyone either.

As 1 Peter 2:24 confirms, the cross guarantees us spiritual healing, but I don't see where there's a guarantee for physical healing also.

Anyway, just wanted to share that scripture

 

[Depleted]

Would someone kindly reply with quotes this, so Ben will quit using his excuse of having me ignored as a reason it's okay to babble away and answer about what I said without ever actually talking to me? This too is passive-aggressive veiled zingers WoF game.

Cause and effect? I just don't get it. This is like stepping out onto a pool of water to walk on water and concluding that "it doesn't work" because you sank. No, it obviously works as recorded in the Bible (Peter...). Likewise, laying on of hands for healing obviously works because scripture states so ("the prayer of faith shall save the sick"). To not put much stock in the laying on of hands is nearly equivalent to dismissing something God said (ie; calling God a liar).

Now I know Blue isn't calling God a liar. I know she does believe that God still heals today. I just... wish she would see that it could work for her. That she was prayed for by a Mormon organization, so indeed it was no surprise that the prayer didn't work (they are a cult). If we put two and two together, we can clearly see the issue. I am not against Blue, far from it. I am, as gently as I can, trying to lift the curtains so she can see the cause and effect here of why that prayer didn't work.

If I shouldn't do this, fine. But I did. So its done. I, as she said, may "allude to someone not having faith" but she doesn't realize that "not putting much stock into the laying on of hands" speaks for itself. I have nothing against her or any of you guys present. In the same way you feel that our doctrines bring hurt and pain, so we believe your doctrines keep others in pain and hurt.

I don't know what the middle ground is here. Maybe it isn't even a debate on doctrine but actually walking out the doctrine for others to see. We all agree God heals, so I suppose that is a middle ground. God heals, praise the Lord.

Stop with this game. Either keep ignoring me, (which is fine, but since I'm not ignoring you, you're losing ground), or talk to me. But don't play "I don't get this" game when it is so incredibly obvious you don't get it because you intentionally ignore what I said.

Like saying you don't get algebra for whatever excuse you want, when the truth is you ignore algebra, so of course you won't get it.

How easy it is to keep your Benology simply by listening to no one else.

 

[notmyown]

Cause and effect? I just don't get it. This is like stepping out onto a pool of water to walk on water and concluding that "it doesn't work" because you sank. No, it obviously works as recorded in the Bible (Peter...). Likewise, laying on of hands for healing obviously works because scripture states so ("the prayer of faith shall save the sick"). To not put much stock in the laying on of hands is nearly equivalent to dismissing something God said (ie; calling God a liar).

Now I know Blue isn't calling God a liar. I know she does believe that God still heals today. I just... wish she would see that it could work for her. That she was prayed for by a Mormon organization, so indeed it was no surprise that the prayer didn't work (they are a cult). If we put two and two together, we can clearly see the issue. I am not against Blue, far from it. I am, as gently as I can, trying to lift the curtains so she can see the cause and effect here of why that prayer didn't work.

If I shouldn't do this, fine. But I did. So its done. I, as she said, may "allude to someone not having faith" but she doesn't realize that "not putting much stock into the laying on of hands" speaks for itself. I have nothing against her or any of you guys present. In the same way you feel that our doctrines bring hurt and pain, so we believe your doctrines keep others in pain and hurt.

I don't know what the middle ground is here. Maybe it isn't even a debate on doctrine but actually walking out the doctrine for others to see. We all agree God heals, so I suppose that is a middle ground. God heals, praise the Lord.

Would someone kindly reply with quotes this, so Ben will quit using his excuse of having me ignored as a reason it's okay to babble away and answer about what I said without ever actually talking to me? This too is passive-aggressive veiled zingers WoF game.

Stop with this game. Either keep ignoring me, (which is fine, but since I'm not ignoring you, you're losing ground), or talk to me. But don't play "I don't get this" game when it is so incredibly obvious you don't get it because you intentionally ignore what I said.

Like saying you don't get algebra for whatever excuse you want, when the truth is you ignore algebra, so of course you won't get it.

How easy it is to keep your Benology simply by listening to no one else.

like so? ......

 

[BenFTW]

Would someone kindly reply with quotes this, so Ben will quit using his excuse of having me ignored as a reason it's okay to babble away and answer about what I said without ever actually talking to me? This too is passive-aggressive veiled zingers WoF game.

Stop with this game. Either keep ignoring me, (which is fine, but since I'm not ignoring you, you're losing ground), or talk to me. But don't play "I don't get this" game when it is so incredibly obvious you don't get it because you intentionally ignore what I said.

Like saying you don't get algebra for whatever excuse you want, when the truth is you ignore algebra, so of course you won't get it.

How easy it is to keep your Benology simply by listening to no one else.

It is quite humorous that you said this today. Why, you might ask? I removed you off of my ignore list today (way earlier before this post of yours).

My response wasn't directed at you in any way, shape, or form. I am talking to Blue, not you (had to say it like that cause it rhymed lol).

Anyways, hopefully when we do chat we can be civilized and learn from one another. I feel we are way passed the reason I put you on ignore (if I can remember what it was).

 

[BenFTW]

Does Angela have a vendetta against me? Any post that is critical of me she likes, lol.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Does Angela have a vendetta against me? Any post that is critical of me she likes, lol.

Never a vendetta against you Ben. Never.
A heart for those who have received an answer of My grace is sufficient for you in regards to an illness.
There is a time to stop asking Ben. Paul sought the Lord 3 times. He didn't continue to pray for the thorn to be removed for 30 years even though I'm sure he would have preferred a different answer.

And David prayed for his baby but when God took him, he got up and washed his face and ate.

Faith doesnt always receive the answer it would prefer.

Not a vendetta against you. Anger at the men who don't understand: nevertheless, Your will Lord, not mine. They teach wrongly. And not even a vendetta against THEM, but anger at what they do and the heartache they cause to some.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did anyone answer why Joni Erickson Tada was not healed. Even though she had great faith?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Probably so she could be a great example as to why some are not healed, irregardless of their faith. I've read her, she's quite an inspiration...

Did anyone answer why Joni Erickson Tada was not healed. Even though she had great faith?

 

[louis]

Right. Exactly what I've been saying about what you said, once I understood what you said. It is not God that does miracles; it is the strength of single-mindedness of people. (Even said that before too, although probably not exactly the same words. Then you went off onto some verse, and I kept sticking to original statement. And then you told me I agreed with you, and I told you I didn't.)

Might want to reread the whole conversation. I didn't spin. I stayed still, and watched you circle 380 degrees. (You started what you said above right at the 360 degree mark, but then kept spinning a little more to add the mammon/money thing into the mix.) So, you've started your second circle, and I'm still standing here telling you it has nothing to do the single-mindedness of a person. It's all the Lord. Not our strength. His. His will too.

Helpful hints about me:
1. I'm obsessive about a point, so I'm not good with spinning and spinning for argument's sake. I have a point. I give the point. You understand the point, or not, based on how well I did with communicating it. But then I go about working on that point until it is understood, and wait to see if you agree or disagree. If you disagree, then I expect to learn why, which does mean I will keep pressing for more info, if I don't get why the first time. But if we're going for a second argument, that only after the first is clarified.

2. I'm off-the-beaten path. While most people tread common ground and argue/debate/talk about that, I'm the weirdo that goes off and sees some small not-traveled-often path. And I like letting others see it's there too. I'm not big on beaten paths, because, well. They're so beaten everyone knows the area. Why keep going over something until it's bare ground? So I think in different ways, just in hopes I can get others to join in with me, and maybe think of something new. No big deal, other than it gives you a clue on why you won't usually see me beating a common ground point insistently. And good to know simply because it's easier thinking everyone is making the same points over and over again.

Not that it is related to our conversation other than to give you some idea of who you're talking to and some inkling why usual methods don't work for me. More of a time saver on trying to figure out me, than another argument.

"Strength of mind" is the phrase you interjected for my perspective.

I will try once again with what I believe is the reason why there aren't people today with the capacity to perform the healings and miracles that were more common in the first century AD.
Christians today are all for the most part double minded, having faith towards Christ as well as faith towards Mammon/money. This double mindedness faith is the reason why there are no healings or miracles today.
In contrast, I previously elaborated scriptures in Acts where Peter, the head of the church in Jerusalem carried no money and thus was singularly minded towards the Lord. It was due to his faith being singularly minded that allowed him to do healings and other miracles.
If this singular mindedness is what you wish to refer to as strength of mind, go ahead, but I will say that it produces another connotation in me where the indivdiual is capable of performing the healings and other miracles from something other than a singular faith in Christ.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Funny how people always use her especially, to show a person who has great faith in being healed. Yet they cannot offer ANY explanation as to why, in several decades, she has NOT been healed, and most likely never will be in her earthly lifetime...


They just don't want to admit that they may be wrong, that God in fact does NOT heal every single person who needs or asks for healing...

Did anyone answer why Joni Erickson Tada was not healed. Even though she had great faith?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

"Strength of mind" is the phrase you interjected for my perspective.

I will try once again with what I believe is the reason why there aren't people today with the capacity to perform the healings and miracles that were more common in the first century AD.
Christians today are all for the most part double minded, having faith towards Christ as well as faith towards Mammon/money. This double mindedness faith is the reason why there are no healings or miracles today.
In contrast, I previously elaborated scriptures in Acts where Peter, the head of the church in Jerusalem carried no money and thus was singularly minded towards the Lord. It was due to his faith being singularly minded that allowed him to do healings and other miracles.
If this singular mindedness is what you wish to refer to as strength of mind, go ahead, but I will say that it produces another connotation in me where the indivdiual is capable of performing the healings and other miracles from something other than a singular faith in Christ.

I understand what you're saying.