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I can absolutely, 100% guarantee that Lazarus did not have enough faith or hope, (since those are two different words for a reason), to be risen from the dead. Dead men have no faith nor hope!
You can't spin this whichever way you want to affirm you're personal Benology.
You can't spin this whichever way you want to affirm you're personal Benology.
I take no issue with anyone in the debate on healing emphasizing the importance of our own faith in praying for others. In fact, I'd bring this question back to those who raise it (such as PennEd) and ask them how they pray for healing as prescribed in God's word, such as the prayer of faith that shall save the sick (i.e;heal them)? If healing is no guarantee, nor do we have any confidence in its reception, on what basis do we seek it?
If you say God's mercy, I'd like to point out that answer only confirms faith as a prerequisite to healing since believing God is merciful to our weaknesses is a promise in and of itself. Though I don't believe you guys are opposed to the idea that faith is closely tied to healing. Either way, guarantee for healing or not, one way or another, faith is involved and faith is an expectation of something occurring (even going so far in scripture as to say, "believe that ye have received them") meaning it is done.
God does heal out of His mercy even when we lack faith, just as He has the power to raise the faithless (the dead). Surely though, God would have us believe and have faith, as this brings Him pleasure.
I agree with this definition. It says all things happen with either His direction (He causes it to happen) OR His permission ( like with Job).
To say, as in that definition, "with His permission", does not mean God caused. It means He permitted. And if He permits Satan to buffet Job with a whirlwind, boils, etc., or says okay when Satan asks to sift peter like wheat, He works it to the mans eternal good because darkness can never overcome light.
I guess some might think its a picayune distinction, but to me, its not. I think its important to know, as with that definition, that there is a distinction between causes and permits.
To say, as in that definition, "with His permission", does not mean God caused. It means He permitted. And if He permits Satan to buffet Job with a whirlwind, boils, etc., or says okay when Satan asks to sift peter like wheat, He works it to the mans eternal good because darkness can never overcome light.
I guess some might think its a picayune distinction, but to me, its not. I think its important to know, as with that definition, that there is a distinction between causes and permits.
Hello Lynn, If the Lord has healed you and your husband of illnesses, that is great. While I do not know whether the Lord has healed me of any physical illness, I do know the Lord has saved my life in other instances where I would have died.
Regardless, however, of this fact, I still recognize that I am double minded today (putting faith in the Lord, as well as in Mammon), and as a result I do not meet the criteria for performing healings and other miracles as those who totally place their faith in the Lord will acomplish, as John 14:12 indicates.
Many people today deny their being double minded, and claim themselves being single minded, while trying to explain these scriptures away by claiming them only applying to first century Christians, or just the apostles, and other such theories, all of which claims deny the Word. So, unless you have another explanation for these scriptures which does not deny the Word, I will then maintain my perspective, rather than deny the Word.
John 14:12 [FONT="]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father[/FONT][FONT="].
[/FONT]13 [FONT="]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[/FONT]
Regardless, however, of this fact, I still recognize that I am double minded today (putting faith in the Lord, as well as in Mammon), and as a result I do not meet the criteria for performing healings and other miracles as those who totally place their faith in the Lord will acomplish, as John 14:12 indicates.
Many people today deny their being double minded, and claim themselves being single minded, while trying to explain these scriptures away by claiming them only applying to first century Christians, or just the apostles, and other such theories, all of which claims deny the Word. So, unless you have another explanation for these scriptures which does not deny the Word, I will then maintain my perspective, rather than deny the Word.
John 14:12 [FONT="]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father[/FONT][FONT="].
[/FONT]13 [FONT="]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[/FONT]
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beating around the bush here...Jesus called lazarus out of the tomb
Jesus = God...seriously? you want to compare Him with one of us?
as it is, I can't take you seriously since you do not answer question.....you just ignore the ones you cannot answer...like the example of Isaiah 53...and try to seem like you have the answers
you don't though
I do believe this however ^^^^^
thing is, it is actually what the rest of us have been saying out of the gate
that is actually the only conclusion one can come to
E
It is quite easy realy
1. Pray with knowledge God never promised to heal everyone Pray as jesus did, Nevertheless not my will but your will be carried out.
2. Pray with faith and knowledge that God has the power to heal any sickness or disease. Even raise people from the dead,. As he rose Lazarus from the dead, ie, pray with out doubting that if God wills the person to be healed. He has the power to do it. Period.
3. Pray with an understanding if God chooses to say no, He knows best, He knows things you do not know. And try not to second guess God as to why, And also know. There is nothing wrong with continuing to pray for healing and for Gods Will to continue to be carried out, no matter what that will is,
Amazingly, when I started to pray this way, i started to get more prayers answered, there has to be a corrolation between praying in humility, rather than praying with pride.
1. Pray with knowledge God never promised to heal everyone Pray as jesus did, Nevertheless not my will but your will be carried out.
2. Pray with faith and knowledge that God has the power to heal any sickness or disease. Even raise people from the dead,. As he rose Lazarus from the dead, ie, pray with out doubting that if God wills the person to be healed. He has the power to do it. Period.
3. Pray with an understanding if God chooses to say no, He knows best, He knows things you do not know. And try not to second guess God as to why, And also know. There is nothing wrong with continuing to pray for healing and for Gods Will to continue to be carried out, no matter what that will is,
Amazingly, when I started to pray this way, i started to get more prayers answered, there has to be a corrolation between praying in humility, rather than praying with pride.
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Louis originally said everyone is double minded and I disagreed
I will agree that renewing our minds is a process...it is actually work...study...as we take in the word and cast off imaginations and tear down strongholds
this is really a big study all on its own
prayer is always good....but praying for understanding, according to what the word states...because in the Psalms it says in Your light do we see light...and not humanistic reasoning...is what changes us as we allow the word to sink in and the Holy Spirit makes it real to us
I'm not sure Louis is saying that...and I have not been reading his posts...only the first one with which I did not quite agree
it is mainly Lynn and he that have been having the conversation
E
Amen, Pray with thanksgiving, Thank god for whatever you ask whether God says yes or no. Because God knows best.
If we are getting mad or upset because God does not answer a prayer the way we think he should. Is our faith in him really there? Or are we trying to make God our genie where we ask for our wishes demanding he give them to us. Sadly I have witnessed that for to much out of people.
If we are getting mad or upset because God does not answer a prayer the way we think he should. Is our faith in him really there? Or are we trying to make God our genie where we ask for our wishes demanding he give them to us. Sadly I have witnessed that for to much out of people.
D
Note this verse, (while remember what happened to Joseph):
[h=1]Genesis 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.[/h]He didn't say, "God caught up after the evil, and fixed it." He didn't say, "God couldn't help it." He didn't say, "God was caught off guard." He didn't say, "God was helpless."
He said, "God meant it!"
God means it! All of it, or "it" wouldn't happen.
Sovereign!
And I'm sure Joseph spent ten years not having a clue why God did that to him.
[h=1]Genesis 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.[/h]He didn't say, "God caught up after the evil, and fixed it." He didn't say, "God couldn't help it." He didn't say, "God was caught off guard." He didn't say, "God was helpless."
He said, "God meant it!"
God means it! All of it, or "it" wouldn't happen.
Sovereign!
And I'm sure Joseph spent ten years not having a clue why God did that to him.
Question still remains, WHY doesn't He heal ALL? Whether it's all people, or all their illness, instead of choosing one illness to cure while leaving them with the rest...
We all know dang well He could have healed Joni entirely if he so chose. But instead, He ONLY healed her cancer. Why ONLY heal ONE of her maladies? Why not ALL?
We all know dang well He could have healed Joni entirely if he so chose. But instead, He ONLY healed her cancer. Why ONLY heal ONE of her maladies? Why not ALL?
Yeah right, . His people are disabled, paralyzed, dead and dying. HOW is THAT good? He's picking us off one by one, to disease, murder, suicide, you name it.
He heals some, then afflicts them again. Case in point: Joidevivre. She got cured for awhile, and now her cancer is back. :/ WHY? He healed her, so WHY did He afflict her again? Why not just heal her entirely and be done with it?
He heals some, then afflicts them again. Case in point: Joidevivre. She got cured for awhile, and now her cancer is back. :/ WHY? He healed her, so WHY did He afflict her again? Why not just heal her entirely and be done with it?
D
Does God cause sin? No way! But he sure did punish Adam and Eve for sinning, and in that curse was our fallen nature. And that fallen nature is the sin nature.
He could have saved Paul before he helped kill Stephen. He did not. He meant for that to happen. On the other hand, he also meant to make sure Paul didn't get to where he was going to kill the next guy.
The T in TULIP stands for Totally Depraved. This gobsmacks me to think we are not utterly depraved thanks to God's grace. Utterly Depraved would mean the next time someone gets mad at you for your driving skills on the highway, (or you get mad at him), it does not end in murder. God staves the evil just as he brings the good. If he did not hold back all evil, there would be no one left on earth.
He could have saved Paul before he helped kill Stephen. He did not. He meant for that to happen. On the other hand, he also meant to make sure Paul didn't get to where he was going to kill the next guy.
The T in TULIP stands for Totally Depraved. This gobsmacks me to think we are not utterly depraved thanks to God's grace. Utterly Depraved would mean the next time someone gets mad at you for your driving skills on the highway, (or you get mad at him), it does not end in murder. God staves the evil just as he brings the good. If he did not hold back all evil, there would be no one left on earth.
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and this is why I prefer not to discuss this in this thread
this topic creates a really big divide..it's just gonna go back and forth
makes me sad and also tired
I believe there are differing contributors as to why things happen but sin being one real big one...and not all necessairly meaning the sin of the person suffering...a person can suffer very badly because of what someone else has done and sin has ripple effects
as long as we are in this world, we will not ever have the bodies we desire...those are for eternity
but I absolutely DO NOT believe that God decides a child should get hit by a car...it happens, he does allow it...in the lives of both Christians and non-Christians...as the word says...He makes the sun to shine on the just and the unjust
hope you don't mind me butting in blue ... things can get frustrating when someone walks over what we are trying to say and sometimes just better to let it go...some days I am better at that than others myself
this topic creates a really big divide..it's just gonna go back and forth
makes me sad and also tired
I believe there are differing contributors as to why things happen but sin being one real big one...and not all necessairly meaning the sin of the person suffering...a person can suffer very badly because of what someone else has done and sin has ripple effects
as long as we are in this world, we will not ever have the bodies we desire...those are for eternity
but I absolutely DO NOT believe that God decides a child should get hit by a car...it happens, he does allow it...in the lives of both Christians and non-Christians...as the word says...He makes the sun to shine on the just and the unjust
hope you don't mind me butting in blue ... things can get frustrating when someone walks over what we are trying to say and sometimes just better to let it go...some days I am better at that than others myself