WHY DOESN'T GOD HEAL EVERYONE?

[Depleted]

I disagree that God CAUSES illness, accidents etc in the normal affairs of people. are there examples of people suffering because of disobedience to God that we read about in scripture?...yes there are but those are specific and I don't think we can say that little 3 old Jonny who ran across the street and was hit by a car, was hit because God made it happen. as long as this world has the conflict between good and evil that it does, we will deal with that conflict. and that is a huge discussion that cannot be covered by opinopm

the Bible does not say that God CAUSED satan to act in the way that he did towards Jon

I would not mind if this particular discussion went somewhere else because that is not what the thread is about...this particular debate sounds more like a vs debate and not a discussion and I know for a fact that has been rehashed many times times in other threads

the simple question here was and still is, WHY doesn't God heal everyone?

this particular question is in reference to people teaching that God promises to heal everyone

yet He does not

we are not going to figure it all out while on this planet, so if someone has that as their objective they will be disappointed

God is God and we are not. I am positive there are many many reasons why one person may be healed and another not be healed or for that matter, one person receiving healing for one thing and for another, the same person may not receive healing

do we believe that God can guide the hands of doctor? surgeons? that might be a little more advantageous to discuss then to rehash God causes accidents vs God allows accidents

I for one, would certainly appreciate that discussion be left and the actual question being discussed should this thread continute

Yeah, but in the answer to the question of why God doesn't heal everyone is the fact that "[FONT=&quot]And we know that for those who love God all things work together [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]for good,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] for [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]those who are called according to his purpose.[/FONT]" He causes that too!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Does God cause sin? No way! But he sure did punish Adam and Eve for sinning, and in that curse was our fallen nature. And that fallen nature is the sin nature.

I would like to address this though

did God actually punish them, or did they suffer the consequences for their sin

God told them that on the day they would eat of the forbidden tree...they would die

just wanted to point that out

personally, I believe we suffer for our sinful choices ...disobedience...even a child will suffer for disobedience if they touch a hot ring on a stove after they have been warned not to do so

we are rebellious at heart

but I also agree that God does punish sin, at times, directly...or again, perhaps some sin has effects we don't know about

but now I am getting philosophical

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yeah, but in the answer to the question of why God doesn't heal everyone is the fact that "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." He causes that too!

of course I agree that God works out things for those who love Him...those who do not, are in big trouble, eh?

anyway, my take on being called to His purpose... is God working out the nature of Christ in us (please no one confuse this with 'we are gods')

again, I see consequences of sin as the 'bad' things that happen...but again, we can point to Job and say 'well, what did this poor guy do?'

but then we see where the devil asked for permission to sift Job and God ALLOWED it

that is how I read and understand it

 

[7seasrekeyed]

of course I agree that God works out things for those who love Him...those who do not, are in big trouble, eh?

anyway, my take on being called to His purpose... is God working out the nature of Christ in us (please no one confuse this with 'we are gods')

again, I see consequences of sin as the 'bad' things that happen...but again, we can point to Job and say 'well, what did this poor guy do?'

but then we see where the devil asked for permission to sift Job and God ALLOWED it

that is how I read and understand it

I think that we have to be content with the same answer God gave Job

basically, He is God and we are not...that is about the simplest answer to the big question I can think of

 

[BenFTW]

Question still remains, WHY doesn't He heal ALL? Whether it's all people, or all their illness, instead of choosing one illness to cure while leaving them with the rest...

We all know dang well He could have healed Joni entirely if he so chose. But instead, He ONLY healed her cancer. Why ONLY heal ONE of her maladies? Why not ALL?

I looked her up after EG and you spoke of her and what a miracle she is. Have you seen her art (that she paints with her mouth!)?

I think Joni answers your question in these exerts of hers.

Some time ago, Ken and I had a chance to visit the holy land and he didn’t not tell me our tour itinerary but I knew that we were going to go the city of Old Jerusalem. And that we did, I was in my push wheel chair, not this power one, and he bumpy-bump, bump, bump me down the Via Delarosa, you don’t go up the Via Delarosa, you go down it when you’re in a wheel chair. And we got to the bottom and we wheeled over the cobble stoned streets and to the right was the Temple Mount, we made a left-hand turn, went pass St. Anne’s Church, and then all of a sudden the path opens up and oh my goodness, would you look at this. “Ken, come here, look at this. It’s the pool of Bethesda. O, Ken, you would not believe how many times, how many times I used to picture myself here as one of those people with disabilities.”

The place was dead quiet. All the tour buses must have been down at the Dead Sea, and it was beautiful. It was quiet. And I leaned there on the guard rail of the old ruin and while Ken, he ran down and went into the cisterns to see if there really was any water left in the pool of Bethesda. But while I was there alone, I was alone just with myself and with my Savior and tears streaming down my face,

“O Jesus, thank You, thank You for a no answer to a request for physical healing. You really knew what You were doing so many years ago because a no answer to a request for physical healing has purged so much sin out of my life, so much selfishness and bitterness, and I know I’ve got a long way to go, but every day I want to wake up and I want to be a different Joni than I was yesterday, I want to be a Joni that You created, that You’ve destined me to be. O God, help me to step into that a no answer, Lord Jesus, to a request for physical healing has meant that I’m depending more on Your grace, but it’s increasing my compassion for others who are hurt and disabled, it’s help me put complaining behind me, it stretched my grope(?), it has pushed me to give thanks in times of sorrow. It has increased my faith. It has strengthened my hope of heaven and it’s made me love You so much more…so much more. It is such a safe wonderful thing to be back in the inner sanctum of the fellowship of sharing in Your sufferings. And I would not trade it for any amount of walking.”

 

[7seasrekeyed]

does anyone think Joni believes God heals everyone?

I mean let's not try to turn her witness into a prop here for something that is not biblical

right

 

[Depleted]

This actually comes in agreement with something in the past that has been highlighted in the discussion of healing. The onus is on the minister and not necessarily the sick. Lazarus indeed required no faith to be risen, because dead men have no faith. It was Jesus who raised him, likewise when it comes to healing in the name of Jesus often times the faith of the minister needs to be up to par. Hence why Jesus told His disciples to pray and fast, to get rid of their disbelief ("O ye of little faith").

I take no issue with anyone in the debate on healing emphasizing the importance of our own faith in praying for others. In fact, I'd bring this question back to those who raise it (such as PennEd) and ask them how they pray for healing as prescribed in God's word, such as the prayer of faith that shall save the sick (i.e;heal them)? If healing is no guarantee, nor do we have any confidence in its reception, on what basis do we seek it?

If you say God's mercy, I'd like to point out that answer only confirms faith as a prerequisite to healing since believing God is merciful to our weaknesses is a promise in and of itself. Though I don't believe you guys are opposed to the idea that faith is closely tied to healing. Either way, guarantee for healing or not, one way or another, faith is involved and faith is an expectation of something occurring (even going so far in scripture as to say, "believe that ye have received them") meaning it is done.

God does heal out of His mercy even when we lack faith, just as He has the power to raise the faithless (the dead). Surely though, God would have us believe and have faith, as this brings Him pleasure.

Your first sentence almost gave me heart palpitations.

Whew, glad I kept reading, because we finally have something we can possibly mesh together.

On whose strength do I pray when I lay hands on someone? God's strength.

On whose faith? His faith. (Myopic. Haven't been able to see a mustard seed in decades.)

Why do I do that? Why do I have the guts to lay hands on someone and pray? Because he told me to.

Do I have confidence he will heal the person just because I took it this far? Nah! I'm not crazy. I've seen how this works often enough that I gave up that silly, arrogant confidence in my mid-20s, specifically because I feel the shame and horror of saying "God will heal her" hours before she died. And she was a very good friend. And her husband was just as good a friend and he had to live with that aftermath. (Fortunately, my prayer was away from both of them, so he didn't have to grapple with my youthful idiocy and arrogance.) I pray what Jesus taught me to pray, "thy will be done."

There is my confidence -- God's will is done. Always and forever.

The best I can handle for single-minded. The only thing I know for sure.

And, if his will is the person becomes healed? Well, holy schmoley! I sure like seeing instant-gratification in the Lord's work. Too often it's not instant. Gratifying, but not instant.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Well then, God is sadistic. For someone who never meant for His children to get murdered, suffer illness or whatever, He sure does a good job of allowing it to happen. :/

Ah...you have some anger at Him?
He allowed Satan to take all of Jobs children.
Then He allowed Satan to attack Jobs health.
He allowed this.
Its scripture.
He allowed it.
Now comes the struggle with WHY. And it IS a struggle. We each struggle through it with Him. We come out of that struggle with a peace so great we can't even believe it. It begins for a lot of us with just...anger at Him. So go get angry and struggle through it. He will show you by your own circumstances, why.

 

[BenFTW]

Your first sentence almost gave me heart palpitations.

Whew, glad I kept reading, because we finally have something we can possibly mesh together.

On whose strength do I pray when I lay hands on someone? God's strength.

On whose faith? His faith. (Myopic. Haven't been able to see a mustard seed in decades.)

Why do I do that? Why do I have the guts to lay hands on someone and pray? Because he told me to.

Do I have confidence he will heal the person just because I took it this far? Nah! I'm not crazy. I've seen how this works often enough that I gave up that silly, arrogant confidence in my mid-20s, specifically because I feel the shame and horror of saying "God will heal her" hours before she died. And she was a very good friend. And her husband was just as good a friend and he had to live with that aftermath. (Fortunately, my prayer was away from both of them, so he didn't have to grapple with my youthful idiocy and arrogance.) I pray what Jesus taught me to pray, "thy will be done."

There is my confidence -- God's will is done. Always and forever.

The best I can handle for single-minded. The only thing I know for sure.

And, if his will is the person becomes healed? Well, holy schmoley! I sure like seeing instant-gratification in the Lord's work. Too often it's not instant. Gratifying, but not instant.

What great confidence we can have when He sends us (to pray). If you know His voice, and He tells you to do something, you better believe He will equip you for the task at hand.

 

[Deade]

I would like to address this though

did God actually punish them, or did they suffer the consequences for their sin

God told them that on the day they would eat of the forbidden tree...they would die

just wanted to point that out

personally, I believe we suffer for our sinful choices ...disobedience...even a child will suffer for disobedience if they touch a hot ring on a stove after they have been warned not to do so

we are rebellious at heart

but I also agree that God does punish sin, at times, directly...or again, perhaps some sin has effects we don't know about

but now I am getting philosophical

On the contrary 7seas, it is not being philosophical to observe the cause and effect of sin. Spiritually speaking, we will all pay for only our sin. But physically, God says the effects can last for generations:

Num. 14:18: "The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

So sometimes sickness can be caused by sinful behavior we can't see.

 

[BillG]

Your first sentence almost gave me heart palpitations.

Whew, glad I kept reading, because we finally have something we can possibly mesh together.

On whose strength do I pray when I lay hands on someone? God's strength.

On whose faith? His faith. (Myopic. Haven't been able to see a mustard seed in decades.)

Why do I do that? Why do I have the guts to lay hands on someone and pray? Because he told me to.

Do I have confidence he will heal the person just because I took it this far? Nah! I'm not crazy. I've seen how this works often enough that I gave up that silly, arrogant confidence in my mid-20s, specifically because I feel the shame and horror of saying "God will heal her" hours before she died. And she was a very good friend. And her husband was just as good a friend and he had to live with that aftermath. (Fortunately, my prayer was away from both of them, so he didn't have to grapple with my youthful idiocy and arrogance.) I pray what Jesus taught me to pray, "thy will be done."

There is my confidence -- God's will is done. Always and forever.

The best I can handle for single-minded. The only thing I know for sure.

And, if his will is the person becomes healed? Well, holy schmoley! I sure like seeing instant-gratification in the Lord's work. Too often it's not instant. Gratifying, but not instant.

I have prayed for healing many times and offered to do so as well.

I will always pray if I feel led.

 

[Depleted]

I agree with this definition. It says all things happen with either His direction (He causes it to happen) OR His permission ( like with Job).

To say, as in that definition, "with His permission", does not mean God caused. It means He permitted. And if He permits Satan to buffet Job with a whirlwind, boils, etc., or says okay when Satan asks to sift peter like wheat, He works it to the mans eternal good because darkness can never overcome light.

I guess some might think its a picayune distinction, but to me, its not. I think its important to know, as with that definition, that there is a distinction between causes and permits.

Ever look at the beginning of Job objectively? Satan is visiting God's court one day with a bunch of other "sons of God," when God pulls him over and asks him to consider Job. No hint Satan was even thinking of Job at that moment. But God was and brought him to the attention of Satan.

Did God harm Job? Nope. But he sure did stir a bit.

Did Jesus cause Peter to deny him three times? Nope. But he sure did warn him it was coming, and sure did use it to Peter's advantage, and the entire church's advantage.

I'm still stuck on cause and effect. Ultimately, on sovereignty.

An amazing word -- sovereignty. The best I can see it is kings and queens are sovereign. But they're really not. They still have to cajole the people to go along with them. God is so sovereign he does not have to find some favor with people so they might go along with him. Good thing he's perfectly good.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

On the contrary 7seas, it is not being philosophical to observe the cause and effect of sin. Spiritually speaking, we will all pay for only our sin. But physically, God says the effects can last for generations:

Num. 14:18: "The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

So sometimes sickness can be caused by sinful behavior we can't see.

haha...I like your response and I agree

I just tend to dig deeper then a quick answer and have alot of life experience on this topic

I do believe curses can still be in effect but it seems most Christians do not believe that and point to Jesus becoming a curse for us on the cross

I believe Jesus work on the cross was perfect...He stated it was finished

but it is my experience...that people ignore the fact that just as we have to deal with sin in our lives, we may also have to deal with curses and stand on the fact that Jesus has destroyed these also

that may be conceptual and many disagree but I have found it to be true just the same

for many reasons, I have learned not to be flippant or quick in my response when dealing with 'stuff'

yeah sickness can be a physical component to a spiritual problem (please nobody take that to mean you are not healed because you have something wrong with you spiritually...like I said, you don't jump in and apply what you think you know to everything)

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Ah...you have some anger at Him?
He allowed Satan to take all of Jobs children.
Then He allowed Satan to attack Jobs health.
He allowed this.
Its scripture.
He allowed it.
Now comes the struggle with WHY. And it IS a struggle. We each struggle through it with Him. We come out of that struggle with a peace so great we can't even believe it. It begins for a lot of us with just...anger at Him. So go get angry and struggle through it. He will show you by your own circumstances, why.

if I may?

I think Blue is experiencing some frustration with how others see her posts

 

[Depleted]

Hello Lynn, If the Lord has healed you and your husband of illnesses, that is great. While I do not know whether the Lord has healed me of any physical illness, I do know the Lord has saved my life in other instances where I would have died.
Regardless, however, of this fact, I still recognize that I am double minded today (putting faith in the Lord, as well as in Mammon), and as a result I do not meet the criteria for performing healings and other miracles as those who totally place their faith in the Lord will acomplish, as John 14:12 indicates.
Many people today deny their being double minded, and claim themselves being single minded, while trying to explain these scriptures away by claiming them only applying to first century Christians, or just the apostles, and other such theories, all of which claims deny the Word. So, unless you have another explanation for these scriptures which does not deny the Word, I will then maintain my perspective, rather than deny the Word.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

But I was double-minded when it came to hubby being healed. I really, really wanted him back. At best, I knew God was going to have his way whether I agreed with him or not. And yet, I held my husband's hand and prayed.

You keep thinking you need to be singularly focused!

No.

You don't.

Try having faith in God's abilities rather than yours. After all, he's the healer, not you.

And, if you do not lay hands on people in prayer for healing then you're disobeying God, because he's the one who told us to do just that!

Truthfully, the outcome is always the same. God is glorified! It's a win-win situation.

 

[Depleted]

I understand what Louis is saying. There is a verse that says a double minded man should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. And I agree we can be double minded and think we aren't. I've seen it in myself. So we know what to pray for regarding this, don't we...?

Yeah, but even being double-minded doesn't stop God from doing what he wills. I know I'm double-minded. I suspect I'm triple or quadruple minded. I want what I want. I want what my hubby wants. I want what my friends want. And I want what God wants. If there is fixing needed there, God has to do the fixing, because I've got no clue how not to be that. I've even had to pray that he gets me to pray what he wants. (Still wanted hubby to come here-home, too. Always knew God was taking hubby home, just never sure which home -- here-home or God's home. lol)

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yeah, but even being double-minded doesn't stop God from doing what he wills. I know I'm double-minded. I suspect I'm triple or quadruple minded. I want what I want. I want what my hubby wants. I want what my friends want. And I want what God wants. If there is fixing needed there, God has to do the fixing, because I've got no clue how not to be that. I've even had to pray that he gets me to pray what he wants. (Still wanted hubby to come here-home, too. Always knew God was taking hubby home, just never sure which home -- here-home or God's home. lol)

I like this!

I think it shows the sovereignty of God in giving us what we need and actually want even when we are not certain

sometimes, I know for me, it's a great mercy that He does so and does not give in to my ranting (which I have been known to do...God and I do thrash it out at times. I believe He is good with that)

 

[blue_ladybug]

I'm not angry at all. I'm frustrated!! I'm not going to keep derailing Seven's thread, but I want to know WHY He won't, heal ALL of people's illnesses, especially if they have more than one. To me, being PARTLY healed, is NOT being FULLY healed. He could fully heal John (Lynn's husband), or Joidevivre or Bella or Jenniferand2. Heck, He could heal every single cotton pickin' one of us! LOL

But He hasn't, and some here have died recently because He didn't. Frank (achildofGod) is gone now, and HE probably had the best faith of any of us. So WHY, despite our prayers, pleas, and begging, doesn't God heal ALL of us?

Ah...you have some anger at Him?
He allowed Satan to take all of Jobs children.
Then He allowed Satan to attack Jobs health.
He allowed this.
Its scripture.
He allowed it.
Now comes the struggle with WHY. And it IS a struggle. We each struggle through it with Him. We come out of that struggle with a peace so great we can't even believe it. It begins for a lot of us with just...anger at Him. So go get angry and struggle through it. He will show you by your own circumstances, why.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I'm just in a foul mood right now. Not because of this thread but because me and a few others basically were told that posting "I win" on that thread, is not of God. So basically we got called satanists. :/ So yes, I'm more than a little passed off right now... lol

if I may?

I think Blue is experiencing some frustration with how others see her posts

 

[slave]

I'm not angry at all. I'm frustrated!! I'm not going to keep derailing Seven's thread, but I want to know WHY He won't, heal ALL of people's illnesses, especially if they have more than one. To me, being PARTLY healed, is NOT being FULLY healed. He could fully heal John (Lynn's husband), or Joidevivre or Bella or Jenniferand2. Heck, He could heal every single cotton pickin' one of us! LOL

But He hasn't, and some here have died recently because He didn't. Frank (achildofGod) is gone now, and HE probably had the best faith of any of us. So WHY, despite our prayers, pleas, and begging, doesn't God heal ALL of us?

I'm just in a foul mood right now. Not because of this thread but because me and a few others basically were told that posting "I win" on that thread, is not of God. So basically we got called satanists. :/ So yes, I'm more than a little passed off right now... lol

Wow, talk about a mission to slander someone's name. Who called you satanists? Show the term satanist, and show how they were out to cause you anything but insight into His Word?...

It is the will of God that human beings should get into a right-standing relationship with Him, and His covenants are designed for this purpose. Why doesn’t God save me? Why won't He heal us all? He has accomplished and provided for my salvation, but I have not yet entered into a relationship with Him. Why doesn’t God do everything we ask? He has done it. The point is - will I step into that covenant relationship? All the great blessings of God are finished and complete, but they are not mine until I enter into a relationship with Him on the basis of His covenant.

Waiting for God to act is fleshly unbelief. It means that I have no faith in Him. I wait for Him to do something in me so I may trust in that. But God won’t do it, because that is not the basis of the God-and-man relationship. Man must go beyond the physical body and feelings in his covenant with God, just as God goes beyond Himself in reaching out with His covenant to man. It is a question of faith in God - a very rare thing. We only have faith in our feelings. I don’t believe God until He puts something tangible in my hand, so that I know I have it. Then I say, “Now I believe.” There is no faith exhibited in that. God says, “Look to Me, and be saved…” (Isaiah 45:22).

When I have really transacted business with God on the basis of His covenant, letting everything else go, there is no sense of personal achievement— no human ingredient in it at all. Instead, there is a complete overwhelming sense of being brought into union with God, and my life is transformed and radiates peace and joy. Therefore, when you are joyful, be joyful; when you are sad, be sad. If God has given you a sweet cup, don’t make it bitter; and if He has given you a bitter cup, don’t try and make it sweet; take things as they come. In this where is death's victory, where is its sting? God uses many things to proceed His will in us, but His character is to give us eternal life in abundance.