GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[Studyman]

Not true. The devil is the impersonator. If you think Jesus (God) would command murder and rape you are sadly mistaken.

You keep refusing to accept some basic truths about His Word.

"The Law is Spiritual"

And

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

 

[PS]

You keep refusing to accept some basic truths about His Word.

"The Law is Spiritual"

And

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Saying the law is spiritual is just an excuse, and a poor one at that. The law is designed for our physical protection and well-being.

 

[gb9]

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

There are some, Who come in Christ's Name, who actually preach that this is speaking about Moses, or God (Jesus) who instructed Moses. But Jesus didn't say "You have heard it from Moses" He said "You have heard it from THEM of old time"

But as you can see, Jesus is speaking about the preaching the Pharisees had promoted which had been taught for centuries. When Jesus sent them Prophets to straighten them out, they killed them.

The "Them of old time" are the Levite Scribes, Pharisees who had corrupted God's Word. Jesus exposed what He, as God of the OT, really taught.

so, according to this line of thinking, you are saying that Moses lied about what God said on Sinai. because that is one of Ten. clear as day.

you see, you and others are trying to use the Old Testament as a binding spell on God, saying that He is not allowed to change anything. all the times that Moses recorded God saying " it shall be a statute forever ", all the things that Jesus said and did, all the times God to Israel not to interact with the nations around them, that fact that Jesus sent his Disciples into the nations you try to explain away as the Pharisees changed the Law, when in fact , as you were meticulously shown by posthuman how the 613 were put in to enforce the Law of Moses , you close you eyes because you cannot accept that the New testament , is different than the old.

 

[Studyman]

I see what you are saying and to a certain extent the last 2 certain sentences of your last paragraph I do agree with.

I don't understand the first sentence though. The adulteress should have been stoned under the law, that is killed.

If we look at

Leviticus 20:1
Chapter 20
Penalties for Breaking the Law
1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,

Then we find

Leviticus 20:10


10 “The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

So it seems to me that under the law God is saying that this lady should have been stoned along with the man.

But under that law Jesus could not condemn her.

As I said yesterday to me this was a trap.
If Jesus did condemn her then the Roman authorities would have been on him like a shot.
Because only they could condemn someone to death. That being the case if Jesus did condemn her so that her death followed then he himself would have probably been put to death as well.

So to me putting that aside Jesus could not condemn because,

The man was not there.
There were no witnesses.

That is what the law of God required.

Was not Jesus under this law?

So would you mind explaining what you mean when you say

""Then you will be able to accept the truth that Gods laws killed this woman"

Not trying to trap you, just do not get what your saying.

Rom. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.


How is the woman any different than Paul?

Matt. 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

How were these killed?

"for we know that the Law is Spiritual"

So Paul was killed by a Spiritual Law. YES??? Spiritually killed by a spiritual Law. Now without Christ, would Paul be gifted immortality? Would he escape this death if Jesus didn't save Him?

How is the Woman any different?

And who was it that Spiritually killed (Stoned) Paul? Who showed Him the Law that killed him? Was it not Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah?

So Spiritually speaking, wasn't Paul killed by the whole Congregation of the Lord?

How is the adulterous woman any different?

 

[Studyman]

so, according to this line of thinking, you are saying that Moses lied about what God said on Sinai. because that is one of Ten. clear as day.

you see, you and others are trying to use the Old Testament as a binding spell on God, saying that He is not allowed to change anything. all the times that Moses recorded God saying " it shall be a statute forever ", all the things that Jesus said and did, all the times God to Israel not to interact with the nations around them, that fact that Jesus sent his Disciples into the nations you try to explain away as the Pharisees changed the Law, when in fact , as you were meticulously shown by posthuman how the 613 were put in to enforce the Law of Moses , you close you eyes because you cannot accept that the New testament , is different than the old.

Now come on g9, I simple exposed a false teaching about Matt. 5. Jesus didn't change God's Commandments in this chapter. Maybe He did somewhere else, but not here.

You are free to show scriptural support that He did in Matt. 5. I am willing to look at your support.

 

[Studyman]

Saying the law is spiritual is just an excuse, and a poor one at that. The law is designed for our physical protection and well-being.

I am just repeating what the Word says. I think it would be foolish to try and convince people that there isn't a Spiritual component to God's Words.

So people believe in it, some don't. God gives understanding to some, He withholds it from others.

I'm OK with His Words and instructions. But I understand most people aren't.

 

[gb9]

Now come on g9, I simple exposed a false teaching about Matt. 5. Jesus didn't change God's Commandments in this chapter. Maybe He did somewhere else, but not here.

You are free to show scriptural support that He did in Matt. 5. I am willing to look at your support.

God said eye for and eye, tooth for tooth, you shall not spare them you shall not pity them.

Jesus said love your enemies , bless those who curse you, pray for those who spitefully use you, turn the other cheek.

if you cannot see the difference in these , you are not blind. you are willfully blind.

 

[Studyman]

God said eye for and eye, tooth for tooth, you shall not spare them you shall not pity them.

Jesus said love your enemies , bless those who curse you, pray for those who spitefully use you, turn the other cheek.

if you cannot see the difference in these , you are not blind. you are willfully blind.

How did Jesus "Love" His enemies?

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!"

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves,
Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


Matt. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

You neither know the Jesus of the Bible, nor His Love nor are you allowed to understand His Word.

Is; 50:5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

Lam. 3:29 He putteth his mouth in the dust; if so be there may be hope.
30 He giveth his cheek to him that smiteth him: he is filled full with reproach.
31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever:


Lev. 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Jesus prepared me for you guys.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The sad truth is G9, you don't have a clue what your talking about.

 

[BillG]

Rom. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.


How is the woman any different than Paul?

Matt. 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

How were these killed?

"for we know that the Law is Spiritual"

So Paul was killed by a Spiritual Law. YES??? Spiritually killed by a spiritual Law. Now without Christ, would Paul be gifted immortality? Would he escape this death if Jesus didn't save Him?

How is the Woman any different?

And who was it that Spiritually killed (Stoned) Paul? Who showed Him the Law that killed him? Was it not Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah?

So Spiritually speaking, wasn't Paul killed by the whole Congregation of the Lord?

How is the adulterous woman any different?

Was she under the spiritual law or the physical law?

Please explain to me why God said

Leviticus 20:1
Chapter 20
Penalties for Breaking the Law
1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,

Leviticus 20:10


10 “The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

That's the physical law to me.

It seems God decreed this as per the above verses.

It was Paul before his conversation who killed Christians, blasphemers?

Was he doing that as a result of the physical law?
Yet we know when he placed his faith in Jesus he was now under the spiritual law.

It seems to me that Jesus did in fact judge the woman.
He told her "Go sin no more"
But was she aware of the spiritual law?

I can't see that she was.
The reason being the verses quoted above.

So are the verses quoted above not from God?
If not to me we might as well expunge Leviticus?

If they are from God then why did Jesus not condemn her?
To me under that law by he could not because Jesus himself was under the Levitical law.
If you convince me he was not then please please do so.

Given that Jesus is the word, who was there at the beginning and became flesh.

God said in Leviticus adulterers should be put to death if proven they did commit adultery.

Jesus said "If you lust after another then you have committed adultery" in effect even if you have not done it your as guilty as having done it.

To me that's the spiritual intent.
The law laid on our hearts

 

[Dan_473]

These views come from you not being learned in the word.

Adultery is not ok now. The pharisees were trying to imporperly enfore punishment, Yahshua was following the Law. Most know nothing of what was going on here because they do not read the word.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:3-11, "8:3, "And the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And having set her in the midst,"8:4, "they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery."8:5, "“And in the Torah Mosheh commanded us that such should be stoned. What then do You say?”"8:6, "And this they said, trying Him, so that they might accuse Him. But [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], bending down, wrote on the ground with the finger, as though He did not hear."8:7, "But as they kept on questioning Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”"8:8, "And bending down again, He wrote on the ground."8:9, "And when they heard it, being reproved by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the older ones until the last. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]was left alone, and the woman standing in the middle."8:10, "And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], straightening up and seeing no one but the woman, said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Did no one condemn you?”"8:11, "And she said, “No one, Master.” And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 20:10-11, ‘And a man who commits adultery with the wife of another man, who commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor: the adulterer and the adulteress shall certainly be put to death.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Where was the man that was committing adultery with this woman? The scribes and Pharisees did not include him but only the woman. The Law says “the adulterer and the adulteress shall certainly be put to death.” Therefore without bringing the man also a legal case could not even be started. So no Yahshua/Jesus did not change the Law at any time, the Law was not being followed by the scribes and Pharisees.[/FONT]

this is the passage i was thinking of

Matthew 5: 27. "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery;' 28. but I tell you that everyone who gazes at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. - Bible Offline

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posted from my phone, blessings!

 

[Dan_473]

Jesus didn't change His own instructions regarding murder and adultery. He was correcting the Mainstream Preachers of His time. This is another deception that is further by religious traditions of the day.

Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is rebuking the Mainstream Preachers of His time. What was Jesus problem with them?

Matt. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt. 23:4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders;(Necks) but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

as i read it, Jesus is going beyond the exact words of the rule and talking about deeper things

in doin g so, he is adding to, expanding on

***********

posted from my phone, blessings!

 

[Studyman]

Was she under the spiritual law or the physical law?

Please explain to me why God said

Leviticus 20:1
Chapter 20
Penalties for Breaking the Law
1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,

Leviticus 20:10


10 “The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

That's the physical law to me.

It seems God decreed this as per the above verses.

It was Paul before his conversation who killed Christians, blasphemers?

Was he doing that as a result of the physical law?
Yet we know when he placed his faith in Jesus he was now under the spiritual law.

It seems to me that Jesus did in fact judge the woman.
He told her "Go sin no more"
But was she aware of the spiritual law?

I can't see that she was.
The reason being the verses quoted above.

So are the verses quoted above not from God?
If not to me we might as well expunge Leviticus?

If they are from God then why did Jesus not condemn her?
To me under that law by he could not because Jesus himself was under the Levitical law.
If you convince me he was not then please please do so.

Given that Jesus is the word, who was there at the beginning and became flesh.

God said in Leviticus adulterers should be put to death if proven they did commit adultery.

Jesus said "If you lust after another then you have committed adultery" in effect even if you have not done it your as guilty as having done it.

To me that's the spiritual intent.
The law laid on our hearts

Well you might ask yourself a couple of questions.

Where there people who were spiritually dead during Jesus life? And if your answer is yes, then what killed them? Can we reject Paul's explanation in Rom. 7?

And wouldn't the woman be killed by the same Spiritual force, for the same Spiritual reason?

And are we not to consider all scriptures when in study?

1 Cor. 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So wouldn't these things like "stoning to death" and mixing fabrics, and dealing with Oxen be Spiritual Examples for Jesus and Paul to learn from as well as us? Spiritual truths that come with Spiritual understanding that must be granted by God?

Didn't Jesus say He speaks in Parables, wouldn't this be true of Him also before He became a man? And isn't it true that Jesus says He gives understanding to some and withholds understanding from others. Could that be the reason the Pharisees didn't understand the commandment or the spiritual intent thereof?

I don't see how you can deny that the woman was Spiritually dead, killed by God's Law the exact same way the law killed Paul.

 

[Dan_473]

Peter also encounters this problem in Acts 15. He also rebukes them for the burdens they attempted to place on their necks.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

So Jesus just told us all: Matt. 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Then rebukes the preachers again, for their doctrines, Yes. Then He continues to straighten out their preaching.

to me it's not clear what the yoke refers to

since Peter's fathers couldn't bear any of the rules,basically


Acts 15: 10. Now therefore why do you tempt God, that you should put a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? - Bible Offline

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posted from my phone, blessings!

 

[Dan_473]

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

There are some, Who come in Christ's Name, who actually preach that this is speaking about Moses, or God (Jesus) who instructed Moses. But Jesus didn't say "You have heard it from Moses" He said "You have heard it from THEM of old time"

But as you can see, Jesus is speaking about the preaching the Pharisees had promoted which had been taught for centuries. When Jesus sent them Prophets to straighten them out, they killed them.

The "Them of old time" are the Levite Scribes, Pharisees who had corrupted God's Word. Jesus exposed what He, as God of the OT, really taught.

don't kill

looks to me like what Moses delivered

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posted from my phone, blessings!

 

[BillG]

Well you might ask yourself a couple of questions.

Where there people who were spiritually dead during Jesus life? And if your answer is yes, then what killed them? Can we reject Paul's explanation in Rom. 7?

And wouldn't the woman be killed by the same Spiritual force, for the same Spiritual reason?

And are we not to consider all scriptures when in study?

1 Cor. 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So wouldn't these things like "stoning to death" and mixing fabrics, and dealing with Oxen be Spiritual Examples for Jesus and Paul to learn from as well as us? Spiritual truths that come with Spiritual understanding that must be granted by God?

Didn't Jesus say He speaks in Parables, wouldn't this be true of Him also before He became a man? And isn't it true that Jesus says He gives understanding to some and withholds understanding from others. Could that be the reason the Pharisees didn't understand the commandment or the spiritual intent thereof?

I don't see how you can deny that the woman was Spiritually dead, killed by God's Law the exact same way the law killed Paul.

You seem unwilling to answer my questions.

Under the Levitical law should the adulteress woman and the man be put to death?
The Levitical law given by God to Moses conveyed to the Israelites.
Yes or no will suffice?

Yes we are to consider all scriptures.

So consider Leviticus with me.

 

[BillG]

Well you might ask yourself a couple of questions.

Where there people who were spiritually dead during Jesus life? And if your answer is yes, then what killed them? Can we reject Paul's explanation in Rom. 7?

And wouldn't the woman be killed by the same Spiritual force, for the same Spiritual reason?

And are we not to consider all scriptures when in study?

1 Cor. 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So wouldn't these things like "stoning to death" and mixing fabrics, and dealing with Oxen be Spiritual Examples for Jesus and Paul to learn from as well as us? Spiritual truths that come with Spiritual understanding that must be granted by God?

Didn't Jesus say He speaks in Parables, wouldn't this be true of Him also before He became a man? And isn't it true that Jesus says He gives understanding to some and withholds understanding from others. Could that be the reason the Pharisees didn't understand the commandment or the spiritual intent thereof?

I don't see how you can deny that the woman was Spiritually dead, killed by God's Law the exact same way the law killed Paul.

Ps, I've asked myself a lot of questions.

 

[Dan_473]

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

You are furthering the preaching that Jesus just amended God's Commandment here, in Matt. 5. But Jesus taught this truth from the beginning and those who aren't interested in "Creating their own religion" as did the Pharisees, can easily find this truth.

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

this looks to me like an addition, expansion... without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council; and whoever shall say, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. - Bible Offline

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posted from my phone, blessings!

 

[Studyman]

as i read it, Jesus is going beyond the exact words of the rule and talking about deeper things

in doin g so, he is adding to, expanding on

***********

posted from my phone, blessings!

But Jesus is talking about His Law and the preachers who have corrupted it. Shouldn't you consider these scriptures as well?

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


And you base your claim on what? "You have heard it said by them of old time"? And you claim the "THEM" is Moses, and not the Pharisees who He just rebuked? The Chapter sure isn't about changing God's Laws, just the opposite actually.

The only reason you would even think this is if you have been convinced that God's Laws are somehow incomplete. That it isn't the Pharisees He rebuked that needs to change their ways, their teaching, but God that needs to change His Ways, His teaching.

I think this is just another way modern day preachers justify their traditions which cause those who follow them to transgress the commandments of God. I just can't buy into the preaching that Jesus was straightening out Moses, and His God who commanded him, and not the Pharisees who He just rebuked for rejecting His Fathers commands that He just said would not change one iota.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[Studyman]

this looks to me like an addition, expansion... without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council; and whoever shall say, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. - Bible Offline

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posted from my phone, blessings!

Well you said you can't deal with long posts, no I didn't post all the scriptures in the Law and Prophets that teach the exact same thing Jesus was correcting. I only posted one.

You are kind of ignoring what Jesus said so as to prove your point that Jesus is preaching against or different than the God of the Old Testament.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

The Law and Prophets speaks to so much more than this teaching. It is an absolute lie to say Moses only taught this. I posted just one scripture, there are many more.

But the Pharisees that Jesus rebuked before making this statement, they taught differently than Moses.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So once again, the Pharisees taught about eye for an eye, don't kill, don't commit adultery. But Jesus instructed Moses to teach not to hate your brother as well, and to "not vex the stranger, and to love the stranger as thyself. Not to mention Jeremiah, Isaiah, Psalms, Proverbs, all of which furthered the teaching Jesus espoused in Matt. 5.

The "THEM" Jesus is speaking to are the Jews and Scribes which corrupted God's Word. Not Moses, or His God as you imply.

 

[Studyman]

You seem unwilling to answer my questions.

Under the Levitical law should the adulteress woman and the man be put to death?
The Levitical law given by God to Moses conveyed to the Israelites.
Yes or no will suffice?

Yes we are to consider all scriptures.

So consider Leviticus with me.

I have answered your questions, you refuse to answer mine. Did God's Old Testament Commandments kill Paul or not? This is central to the issue. It doesn't seem that difficult.