KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES
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I never referenced James at all.These are the verses I was taking about.
Acts 13:33 King James Version (KJV)
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 1:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
You raised this question yesterday. I mentioned that the Hebrew word used means to cause a woman to conceive.
And the Greek word used here in these verses, [FONT="]γεγέννηκά[/FONT], literally means to give birth, to bring forth.
The lesson for you is NOT to assume that the ENGLISH word used in translation automatically means the same thing wherever it is used.
You are trying to imply all along that the KJV is always correct, and perfect, and especially your interpretation of it, and that is also just plain wrong...
The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus Christ is both eternal God AND that He proceeds from the Father (as I alluded to earlier). It is clear that neither of the verses that you are interested in are anything to do with procreation in the sense that human beings can understand it.
The verse in Acts (that quotes Psalms) is used to make a very different point to that in Hebrews. However what is central to both is that the Son (Jesus Christ) is indissolubly linked to the Father and the relationship is one of a father to a son (an anthropomorphism to be sure - i.e. explained in human terms as a minimal explanation of something much bigger).
As long as you hold to your unfortunate position that the KJV is the only source of truth, and that your understanding of the English in the KJV is inerrant your utter confusion will persist...
^ I think you might be preaching to the choir. MarcR likes the KJV but he isn't a KJV "Onlyer"
I don't follow you, The Word is God and the Father is God... always has been and always will be.
All I've talked about are these verses:
Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this dayhave I begotten thee.
Acts 13:33
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have Ibegotten thee.
Hebrews 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have Ibegotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
All of these verses are talking about the same thing. The Psalm is prophetic and Acts is the fulfillment.
They are not separate gods, but separate persons of one God.
In other words there is a relationship between them because they are part of the same Godhead.
A translation is simply that and open to errors. As someone stated we need to go back to the original text. I prefer the KJV and am aware it has many errors in it's translation. The reason I prefer it is because the errors are known and there are so many translations that come and go like fashion statements. There are many that stand the test of time like the NIV etc. All have pros and cons which can help or detract. So we do as the Lord says and study to show ourselves workmen approved and don't get caught up in foolish contentions. If we fight each other instead of building each other up we run the risk of helping Satan show the world we are the same as them and His Word is of no effect It's like the denomination issue. Do we follow the teachings of Luther, Calvin, Wesley etc or do we follow the teaching of Christ as part of the one body. Great men have been raised up just as have good interpretations of the Word into English. We need to remember we are all flawed and nothing here is perfect. The only perfect Word is seated at the right hand of the Father. God bless all of you.
Trof my friend it's pointless for me to continue on this subject. I don't have any more comments related to this... I will return when the topic changes.
IOW, he’s asked you a ? you can’t give an answer to, so I am bowing out.
Trof thinks Jesus came out God and I've explained that this is talking about the physical body of Christ... it's pointless to carry on.
The point graceandpeace and I have tried to make is that the Greek word used to translate begat and begotten in these verses is gegenika ans is correctly translated begotten or become your father in all major versions
Hebrews 10:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
This is the body BEGOTTEN by the Father. Christ the eternal God DOES NOT come out of God. This is the "begotten" in Psalms, Acts and Hebrews.
Geez man I can't believe you guys can't see this.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
This is the body BEGOTTEN by the Father. Christ the eternal God DOES NOT come out of God. This is the "begotten" in Psalms, Acts and Hebrews.
Geez man I can't believe you guys can't see this.
I agree, I'm not arguing that... That's what the KJV says. What I want to know is how does this go from the physical body of Christ being begotten by God to Christ the eternal God "coming out" ofthe Father?
Edit: I know how that happens now. It comes from that CATHOLIC doctrine called the Nicean Creed.
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The physical body of Jesus came out of Mary. The words begat or begotten in the verses in question very straightforwardly indicate that whatever essence put Jesus in Mary came out of God the Father.