-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Still error upon error. All who are saved are baptized in the Holy Spirit unto salvation the moment they believe and receive according to the word of God.
Paul even states that he did not come to baptize but to preach the gospel. Jesus did not baptize like Johns disciples. Jesus disciples baptized but Jesus baptized no one in water. Jesus baptizes in the Holy Spirit and was careful to keep the two separate.
The long ending of Mark 16 also allows for drinking poison and taking up deadly serpents.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Paul even states that he did not come to baptize but to preach the gospel. Jesus did not baptize like Johns disciples. Jesus disciples baptized but Jesus baptized no one in water. Jesus baptizes in the Holy Spirit and was careful to keep the two separate.
The long ending of Mark 16 also allows for drinking poison and taking up deadly serpents.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I am not responding to a particular post here, but to all those who keep pointing out that water cannot cleanse your sins. I cannot speak for everyone that believes water baptism is essential to salvation but I can speak for me: I KNOW THAT! I have never claimed that the water itself has the power to do anything. Just like the priest in the old testament that had to wash his hands in the water at the brazen laver before performing his ceremonial duties. Did the water make him pure enough to offer sacrifices? Absolutely not. But guess what would have happened to him if he had bypassed that water and tried to offer sacrifices? All that would have been left of him was smoking shoes!
The power to remit sin is not in the water. Only God can remit sins. But he doesn't remit your sins until you OBEY the actions he told you to take. God does the work of purification. But he only does it when you OBEY what he told you to do! This is so simple to understand. Did the blood of bulls and goats actually physically roll their sins ahead for a year? NO! Only God can remove or even roll forward sins. But he would not roll their sins ahead unless they offered the RIGHT sacrifice in the RIGHT manner. We call this OBEDIENCE.
This is why James, in chapter 2, says that Abraham was justified by works and righteousness was IMPUTED unto him. No matter what we do we cannot be righteous UNLESS God imputes righteousness to us. And God will not impute righteousness to us until we OBEY his commands.
The power to remit sin is not in the water. Only God can remit sins. But he doesn't remit your sins until you OBEY the actions he told you to take. God does the work of purification. But he only does it when you OBEY what he told you to do! This is so simple to understand. Did the blood of bulls and goats actually physically roll their sins ahead for a year? NO! Only God can remove or even roll forward sins. But he would not roll their sins ahead unless they offered the RIGHT sacrifice in the RIGHT manner. We call this OBEDIENCE.
This is why James, in chapter 2, says that Abraham was justified by works and righteousness was IMPUTED unto him. No matter what we do we cannot be righteous UNLESS God imputes righteousness to us. And God will not impute righteousness to us until we OBEY his commands.
^But we can't obey his commands perfectly no matter how diligent we are. Only Jesus can do that. He is the high priest in heaven now, performing all the duties necessary for our salvation. I've been baptised (I wanted to be) but I couldn't honestly tell another Christian who hasn't that he/she has no salvation for lack of the outward ceremony. Salvation comes first. Baptism afterwards, you needn't take step two in order to claim that you have taken step one properly. Step one is step one, when it's done it's done. To believe otherwise is to believe Jesus isn't good enough. Some people just feel a need for ceremony and ritual. Religion. Catholics have the same problem only more severely.
Lucy, Jesus is the one that said in John 3:5 "EXCEPT a man is born of water and of spirit, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of heaven." Maybe you and i have two different definitions of salvation but for me, salvation means entrance into the kingdom of heaven. Jesus said we are not going to get in unless we are born of the water (which is water baptism), and born of the spirit. If you don't believe that being born of the water is water baptism, then please tell me what water he was talking about?
Name one example in the new testament scripture of someone other than the apostles that were not water baptized?
There are one example of the baptism of HS to the Jew (the apostles) and one of the Gentile (house of Cornelius) fulfilling the prophecy of Joel.
Name one more example of HS baptism in the new testament?
If you think you received that same HS as those in the upper room (apostles) then you should be able to drink that poison and be okay?
There are one example of the baptism of HS to the Jew (the apostles) and one of the Gentile (house of Cornelius) fulfilling the prophecy of Joel.
Name one more example of HS baptism in the new testament?
If you think you received that same HS as those in the upper room (apostles) then you should be able to drink that poison and be okay?
It is not possible to speak of Spiritual things with naturally minded men.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
You are not open to the scripture. You are fully persuaded in your ways.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
You are not open to the scripture. You are fully persuaded in your ways.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
First, when a baby is born, they are not born in water. It's amniotic fluid. That is not what Jesus was talking about.
Secondly, Jesus was describing what it means to be born again. He was describing a spiritual birth. And that birth involved water and Spirit. It is obvious that you cannot be born again unless you had already been born once. Jesus further clarifies thi point in verse 6 by making a distinction between natural birth and spirit. He said that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God so you must be born again.
John 3:5 is a parallel verse to John 3:3. Jesus said the exact same thing but he expounded on what it means to be "born again" in verse 5. Born again in verse 3 = water and spirit in verse 5. In the same way as "see the kingdom" in verse 3 = "enter the kingdom" in verse 5. Surely you wont say that he meant something different by "see the kingdom" and "enter the kingdom." Neither did he mean something different by "born again" and "water and spirit."
Secondly, Jesus was describing what it means to be born again. He was describing a spiritual birth. And that birth involved water and Spirit. It is obvious that you cannot be born again unless you had already been born once. Jesus further clarifies thi point in verse 6 by making a distinction between natural birth and spirit. He said that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God so you must be born again.
John 3:5 is a parallel verse to John 3:3. Jesus said the exact same thing but he expounded on what it means to be "born again" in verse 5. Born again in verse 3 = water and spirit in verse 5. In the same way as "see the kingdom" in verse 3 = "enter the kingdom" in verse 5. Surely you wont say that he meant something different by "see the kingdom" and "enter the kingdom." Neither did he mean something different by "born again" and "water and spirit."
2...,
Good point here. But, lets carry if to another level;
We and opponents of water baptism know...that the water has no power. But, The Bible tells us that the act of baptism is completion of the sin cleansing process mandated when CHRIST WAS BAPTIZED. Thus an example of what we are to do ..."for completion" ...(Christ).
One could argue the same opponent position as related to repentance.....the act of getting on our knees and confessing sins while asking G-d for forgiveness...is not sin forgiveness. Hog wash. It is an act of obedience just as being baptized is an act of completion mandated by The Bible just as repentance is.
Opponents of baptism uses the claim that water does not forgive sins...is a self supporting act ...consistent with their argument ...they know better, so why argue a point that is ...oh...nebulous.
Good point here. But, lets carry if to another level;
We and opponents of water baptism know...that the water has no power. But, The Bible tells us that the act of baptism is completion of the sin cleansing process mandated when CHRIST WAS BAPTIZED. Thus an example of what we are to do ..."for completion" ...(Christ).
One could argue the same opponent position as related to repentance.....the act of getting on our knees and confessing sins while asking G-d for forgiveness...is not sin forgiveness. Hog wash. It is an act of obedience just as being baptized is an act of completion mandated by The Bible just as repentance is.
Opponents of baptism uses the claim that water does not forgive sins...is a self supporting act ...consistent with their argument ...they know better, so why argue a point that is ...oh...nebulous.