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R
As I stated, I am not a member a UPC church. We do follow the same general teachings they do, and agree with The Baptism in Jesus name, Oneness The Godhead. As far as speaking in tongues, we do teach that speaking in Tongues in the initial evidence that a person has received the Holy Ghost after conversion. We don't force anyone however to prove they received God's Spirit by speaking in Tongues. That comes down from God not by any power of man. It is a " sign" not an ultimatum.
1 Corinthians 12: 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues ? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way. [NIV]
Many are led astray by poor translations of these verses. In the Greek, it is clear that Paul is phrasing his questions expecting a negative answer. The NASB has a much better translation.
1 Corinthians 12: 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts. A nd I show you a still more excellent way. [NASB]
Paul is clear in that these gifts of the Holy Spirit are not intended for everyone, including true believers who are members of the body of Christ.
Mark 8: Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, "Why does this generation seek for a sign ? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation."
Many are led astray by poor translations of these verses. In the Greek, it is clear that Paul is phrasing his questions expecting a negative answer. The NASB has a much better translation.
1 Corinthians 12: 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts. A nd I show you a still more excellent way. [NASB]
Paul is clear in that these gifts of the Holy Spirit are not intended for everyone, including true believers who are members of the body of Christ.
Mark 8: Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, "Why does this generation seek for a sign ? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation."
R
Superdave5221
I know the scriptures you quoted. However you're taking them out of context regarding what Paul said.
There are 9 gifts of The Holy Ghost. Speaking in tongues is one.
God gives those Gifts according to his purposes. Man has no control over whatever gift or gifts God gives them. Paul was speaking about speaking in tongues regarding as someone receiving the Gift, or any other gift. Someone going through Conversion, will usually utter a few times in tongues as a sign the person has received The Holy Ghost, and never speak in tongues again. God does this as a sign to the church family the Brother/ Sister is fully Repented and so forth.
I've been in hundreds of services and witnessed this. It is a sign. And if a person does not speak in tongues at conversion we still beleive in the normal signs the person has received it. Noone but God, knows the person's heart. It is not a cut and dried policy.
I know the scriptures you quoted. However you're taking them out of context regarding what Paul said.
There are 9 gifts of The Holy Ghost. Speaking in tongues is one.
God gives those Gifts according to his purposes. Man has no control over whatever gift or gifts God gives them. Paul was speaking about speaking in tongues regarding as someone receiving the Gift, or any other gift. Someone going through Conversion, will usually utter a few times in tongues as a sign the person has received The Holy Ghost, and never speak in tongues again. God does this as a sign to the church family the Brother/ Sister is fully Repented and so forth.
I've been in hundreds of services and witnessed this. It is a sign. And if a person does not speak in tongues at conversion we still beleive in the normal signs the person has received it. Noone but God, knows the person's heart. It is not a cut and dried policy.
R
AOK
"It's a duck alright'......but at least this Duck does not quack out excuses and dodge and weave from a simple question about How were people in the NT actually water baptized. Instead your Duck cites Internet preachers, Trinity Doctrine, and how this is correct or that is correct, with totally asinine excuses etc, etc.......It's a Duck alright.....DAFFY DUCk!! Can I get a quick "Quack"??
"It's a duck alright'......but at least this Duck does not quack out excuses and dodge and weave from a simple question about How were people in the NT actually water baptized. Instead your Duck cites Internet preachers, Trinity Doctrine, and how this is correct or that is correct, with totally asinine excuses etc, etc.......It's a Duck alright.....DAFFY DUCk!! Can I get a quick "Quack"??
You say I am taking Paul out of context, and yet you confirm my point. You say that speaking in tongues is evidence of the Holy Spirit, and in the same breath admit that the absense of that sign is not evidence of the person NOT receiving the Holy Spirit. I interpreted Paul as saying that all believers will NOT receive the gift of tongues, (even for a short time at conversion), and you confirmed it. So where is the missed context?
Are we not all equal at conversion? Are we not all brothers and sisters in Christ? Is not the belief in signs evidence of a lack of faith?
If what you say is true, then I would be blessed indeed to not receive this sign at conversion. For that would be evidence to me that God sees in me that faith to believe without the sign, whereas others must have that sign to believe.
Are we not all equal at conversion? Are we not all brothers and sisters in Christ? Is not the belief in signs evidence of a lack of faith?
If what you say is true, then I would be blessed indeed to not receive this sign at conversion. For that would be evidence to me that God sees in me that faith to believe without the sign, whereas others must have that sign to believe.
R
Superdave5221
No need to get Hyper over this. The gift of tongues person receives is an on going gift not someone who does it once at conversion is what I am trying to express. In other words as I explained you may speak in tongues for a few seconds at Conversion, and the next 5 converts do not. And what I am saying is even though you spoke in tongues ONCE does not necessarily you will continue to speak in tongues well after.
As I said it is simply a sign from God. It is sort of showing The Church this person has the Holy Ghost...a "sign" and that sign is not given at every conversion.
Lol.
No need to get Hyper over this. The gift of tongues person receives is an on going gift not someone who does it once at conversion is what I am trying to express. In other words as I explained you may speak in tongues for a few seconds at Conversion, and the next 5 converts do not. And what I am saying is even though you spoke in tongues ONCE does not necessarily you will continue to speak in tongues well after.
As I said it is simply a sign from God. It is sort of showing The Church this person has the Holy Ghost...a "sign" and that sign is not given at every conversion.
Lol.
A
Oneness is a modern heresy rooted in ancient heresy. The cults specialize in asking the wrong questions which are logically flawed and designed to elicit wrong answers that align with their heresy while ignoring ALL truth. The idiot questions are then repeated no matter how many times they are refuted with scripture, logic, yeah truth. That's all you've managed to do in this thread. Ask stupid myopic logically flawed questions, ignore the answers, loop the question again, engage in ad hominem, refuse to read and respond to scriptural truth in our posts, refuse to respond to all of scripture, refuse to respond to anything that refutes the cultic heresy and simply rewind back to the beginning and make the false assertion again. This retreat back into ignorance and denial with regards to a debate you clearly lost is idiocy. In the old days, we'd just put a dunce cap on the kid and point to the corner.
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