KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

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KJV1611

KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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Lucy-Pevensie said:


Exactly! The same for the NIV. Which is what you've been told again and again and again. You can't have a double standard!
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I'm not arguing that the NIV is right or wrong. My arugment is that the NIV goes backward, it takes something was given in the KJV (The Son of God) and goes backward into a more obscure meaning.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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trofimus said:
If I understand KJV1611 correctly, he is not saying that the babylonian king said "son of God", he thinks that the KJV fixed it to be a better reading, even though not historically correct.

But I may be wrong, I have a problem understanding what is the supposed theological problem for us with wrong ideas of a pagan king :)
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You pretty much have understood correctly. I have no idea what the original writings had but it doesn't matter because if it was son of the gods in the original then we gained more clarity in the KJV.
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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KJV1611 said:
Come on man I know you don't think the apocrypha is part of the bible do you? :confused:
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Why? Because you do not have them in your modern print?

It was in the infallible KJV 1611, it was in the infallible KJV 1769.

Thats your standard. You must read them.
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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KJV1611 said:
You pretty much have understood correctly. I have no idea what the original writings had but it doesn't matter because if it was son of the gods in the original then we gained more clarity in the KJV.
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I do not think that something that is not true should be in the Bible.

If the king said "son of gods", it should not be "fixed" later. Such a fix is a lie.

But, because the LXX has also "son of God", I accidentaly agree with the KJV, although I do not consider this to be so important. The words of babylonian king are not our creed.
 
J

Joseppi

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Jan 4, 2018
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The Holy Spirit is named one time in scripture, which you KJV1611 may find informative.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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#2,268
trofimus said:
Why? Because you do not have them in your modern print?

It was in the infallible KJV 1611, it was in the infallible KJV 1769.

Thats your standard. You must read them.
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No Christian that I know of believes the apocrypha is inspred or ever was inspired. The word of God is the 66 books of the cannon and no more.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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trofimus said:
I do not think that something that is not true should be in the Bible.

If the king said "son of gods", it should not be "fixed" later. Such a fix is a lie.

But, because the LXX has also "son of God", I accidentaly agree with the KJV, although I do not consider this to be so important. The words of babylonian king are not our creed.
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This has nothing to do with the words of a babylonian king, it has to do with taking something that was clear in the KJV and obscuring.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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Joseppi said:
The Holy Spirit is named one time in scripture, which you KJV1611 may find informative.
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The phrase Holy Spirit is mentioned 7 times in the KJV and Holy Ghost is mentioned 90 times. Pure coincidence I'm sure lol.
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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#2,271
KJV1611 said:
No Christian that I know of believes the apocrypha is inspred or ever was inspired. The word of God is the 66 books of the cannon and no more.
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Based on what standard? Not on the KJV.
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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#2,272
KJV1611 said:
The phrase Holy Spirit is mentioned 7 times in the KJV and Holy Ghost is mentioned 90 times. Pure coincidence I'm sure lol.
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Holy Spirit is mentioned 10 times. And the Holy ghost 91 times in the KJV. Yes, Ezra is a part of the KJV.
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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#2,273
KJV1611 said:
This has nothing to do with the words of a babylonian king, it has to do with taking something that was clear in the KJV and obscuring.
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"Clarity" cannot be attained by changing historicity. If that king truly said "son of gods", then any Bible should represent his words truthfully.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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trofimus said:
Based on what standard? Not on the KJV.
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There were 66 knops, bowls and candles on the candlestick in Exodus... I'm pretty sure we can safely conclude that the bible only contains 66 books.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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KJV1611 said:
I'm not asking you a question about any translation nor any tradition. :)

The Question - What is more accurate to the facts - Jesus was a son of the gods OR Jesus was The Son of God?
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This is an interesting issue... there are truly at least two ways to define "accuracy" in this case:

- what Nebuchadnezzar actually said
- what is objectively accurate, regardless of what Nebuchadnezzar said

Neither is more "accurate" than the other; they are simply accurate in different ways! There is absolutely nothing wrong with the king saying "a son of the gods" because that is consistent with his worldview. Claiming that he "must have said 'the son of God'" because the fourth person was Jesus is eisegetical and anachronistic. There is also the possibility of it having been angel, in which case "the son of God" would be inaccurate.

In my view, asserting that the correct wording must be "the son of God" solely on the basis that Jesus is the Son of God is indefensible and unnecessary. We don't make doctrine from the words of pagans. While they sometimes get it right, it's not worthwhile to argue that Nebuchadnezzar did in this case. Either way, it certainly doesn't affect the overall trustworthiness of a translation.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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#2,276
Nov 23, 2013
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#2,276
trofimus said:
"Clarity" cannot be attained by changing historicity. If that king truly said "son of gods", then any Bible should represent his words truthfully.
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If a person looks at the bible as history book instead of a book to know Jesus Christ then I would agree but the bible isn't a history book to record a pagan Babylonian kings words.
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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#2,277
KJV1611 said:
There were 66 knops, bowls and candles on the candlestick in Exodus... I'm pretty sure we can safely conclude that the bible only contains 66 books.
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The infallible KJV has apocrypha. Sorry, you do not hold to your own standard.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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#2,278
KJV1611 said:
There were 66 knops, bowls and candles on the candlestick in Exodus... I'm pretty sure we can safely conclude that the bible only contains 66 books.
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Correlation does not indicate intentional design. In the Hebrew Bible, Samuel, Kings and Chronicles are one book each. The minor prophets are grouped together in one book.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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#2,279
Nov 23, 2013
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#2,279
Dino246 said:
This is an interesting issue... there are truly at least two ways to define "accuracy" in this case:

- what Nebuchadnezzar actually said
- what is objectively accurate, regardless of what Nebuchadnezzar said

Neither is more "accurate" than the other; they are simply accurate in different ways! There is absolutely nothing wrong with the king saying "a son of the gods" because that is consistent with his worldview. Claiming that he "must have said 'the son of God'" because the fourth person was Jesus is eisegetical and anachronistic. There is also the possibility of it having been angel, in which case "the son of God" would be inaccurate.

In my view, asserting that the correct wording must be "the son of God" solely on the basis that Jesus is the Son of God is indefensible and unnecessary. We don't make doctrine from the words of pagans. While they sometimes get it right, it's not worthwhile to argue that Nebuchadnezzar did in this case. Either way, it certainly doesn't affect the overall trustworthiness of a translation.
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So who do you think it was, a son of the gods or the Son of God?
 
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