Meat sacrificed to idols (Halal) YES or NO
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I had a bit of laugh reading this...
Lets go back to the text in question:
Acts 10:28
"He said to them, “You yourselves know that it is not permitted for a Jewish man to associate with a non-Jew or to visit him. Yet God has shown me that I should call no MAN unholy or unclean."
If this sentence is true:
"Yet God has shown me that I should call no MAN unholy or unclean.", then for it to be true then it is true no matter what a man eats or drinks!
If holiness or cleanliness is a matter of food and drink then these words uttered by Peter cannot be true...
The logical conundrum is all yours....
Bottom line from Jesus Himself:
Matt 15:10-20 NKJV
"10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand:11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”
15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”
16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”
Since eating with unwashed hands apparently made ANY food unclean, Jesus is clearly teaching that ANY food and drink cannot make a man unclean....
Obviously anathema to some....
For your Pharisaical outlook perhaps this is also pertinent:
Matt 15:12-13 NKJV
"12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”"
Nuff said...
"
Lets go back to the text in question:
Acts 10:28
"He said to them, “You yourselves know that it is not permitted for a Jewish man to associate with a non-Jew or to visit him. Yet God has shown me that I should call no MAN unholy or unclean."
If this sentence is true:
"Yet God has shown me that I should call no MAN unholy or unclean.", then for it to be true then it is true no matter what a man eats or drinks!
If holiness or cleanliness is a matter of food and drink then these words uttered by Peter cannot be true...
The logical conundrum is all yours....
Bottom line from Jesus Himself:
Matt 15:10-20 NKJV
"10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand:11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”
15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”
16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”
Since eating with unwashed hands apparently made ANY food unclean, Jesus is clearly teaching that ANY food and drink cannot make a man unclean....
Obviously anathema to some....
For your Pharisaical outlook perhaps this is also pertinent:
Matt 15:12-13 NKJV
"12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”"
Nuff said...
"
"Yet God has shown me that I should call no MAN unholy or unclean.", then for it to be true then it is true no matter what a man eats or drinks!
If holiness or cleanliness is a matter of food and drink then these words uttered by Peter cannot be true..."
The question is not of 'holiness' of one's self but of the Testimony of Jesus Christ.
If one eats before a pagan, meat offered to Idols which is acknowledged by the Christian and pagan, it looks as if the Christian worships the idol, like bowing your head and praying to another God beside the LORD .
This question is a legitimate question for this context. If the food is permitted by Lev 11 & Deut 14 and Acts 15 the food is clean before God. The question is solely of our witness.
1Cor 8:
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
renewedcovenantministry.com
If holiness or cleanliness is a matter of food and drink then these words uttered by Peter cannot be true..."
The question is not of 'holiness' of one's self but of the Testimony of Jesus Christ.
If one eats before a pagan, meat offered to Idols which is acknowledged by the Christian and pagan, it looks as if the Christian worships the idol, like bowing your head and praying to another God beside the LORD .
This question is a legitimate question for this context. If the food is permitted by Lev 11 & Deut 14 and Acts 15 the food is clean before God. The question is solely of our witness.
1Cor 8:
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
renewedcovenantministry.com
It is clear you don't understand these verses as you have crammed together two issues that have no correlation with one other.
Let's see why this portion's meaning is completely lost on you as you have twisted it and perverted it's meaning due to your willful ignorance.
The issue occurring in Matthew 15 is the Pharisee's are arguing for the Talmudic ritual washing of the hands before eating.
The Messiah is setting them straight based on The Law of G-D and not the Law of Man.
What do we know?
They are eating with UNWASHED HANDS.
They are eating BREAD.
These verses is Yeshua's arguing against the Talmudic Law, a Law and Tradition of Man, not ordained or commanded by G-D.
There is no commandment in the Torah that teaches against eating with unwashed hands.
There is no commandment that strictly forbids the consumption of ALL bread, outside of Festivals of Leviticus and Deuteronomy which G-D commands HIS people to fast the consumption of ALL food for a period of time.
Point blank, you don't understand what Yeshua us teaching on because you don't know the writings of Moses, for if you had known Moses you would have understood Yeshua, for Moses wrote of Yeshua.
And this is a scriptural falsehood. For Yeshua to teach this would mean that He is contradiction the words of HIS Father which teaches that the eating of unclean foods do in fact make a person unclean until the evening of the next day.
See Leviticus 11:24-47
[FONT="]24 “Moreover, by these also you will become unclean: whoever touches their carcasses shall be unclean until the evening. [/FONT][FONT="]25 Whoever carries any part of their carcass is to wash his clothes, and will be unclean until the evening. [/FONT][FONT="]26 “Every animal with a separating hoof but not split, or does not chew cud, is unclean to you. Everyone who touches them will become unclean. [/FONT][FONT="]27 So whatever moves on its paws, among all animals that go on all fours, is unclean to you. Whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean until the evening. [/FONT][FONT="]28 Whoever carries their carcasses, is to wash his clothes and will be unclean until the evening. They are unclean to you.[/FONT][FONT="]29 “Among the creeping things that creep on the earth, the following are unclean to you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, 30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. 31 Among all that creep these are the ones that are unclean to you. Whoever touches them when they are dead, will be unclean until the evening. 32 Whatever falls on them when they are dead will become unclean, whether it is any vessel of wood, or clothing, or skin, or sackcloth. Whatever vessel it is, with which any work is done, it must be put into water, and it will be unclean until the evening, then it will be clean.[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 “Now if any of them falls into a clay pot, everything that is in it will become unclean, and you are to break it. 34 Any food that may be eaten but has water on it from such a pot will become unclean. Also any drink that may be drunk in any such pot will become unclean. 35 Everything on which part of their carcass falls will become unclean. An oven or stove for pots is to be broken in pieces. They are unclean and will be unclean to you. 36 Nevertheless, a spring or a cistern for collecting water will be clean, though anyone who touches their carcass will become unclean. 37 If part of a carcass falls on any seed for sowing that has yet to be sown, it is clean. 38 But if water is put on the seed, and part of a carcass falls on it, it is unclean to you. 39 “If any animal that you may eat dies, the one who touches its carcass will become unclean until the evening. 40 He who eats of its carcass is to wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening. Also, the one who carries its carcass is to wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening.[/FONT]
[FONT="]41 “Every creeping thing that crawls on the earth is detestable—it should not be eaten. 42 Whatever moves on its belly or crawls on all fours or has many feet among all the creeping things that crawl on the earth, these you are not to eat, for they are detestable. 43 You are not to contaminate yourselves with any creeping thing that crawls nor make yourselves unclean with them or defiled by them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]44 “For I am Adonai your God. Therefore, sanctify yourselves, and be holy, for I am holy. You are not to defile yourselves with any kind of creeping thing that moves on the earth. 45 For I am Adonai who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God.[a]Therefore, you shall be holy, for I am holy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]46 “This is the Torah of the animal, the bird, every living creature that moves in the waters, and every creature that creeps on the earth, 47 to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean, and between the living thing that may be eaten and the living thing that may not be eaten.”[/FONT]
Yeshua is not teaching on what is and what is not food, He is teaching against the Traditions of Men that are used to create an uneasy yoke of bondage which is found nowhere in the Law of G-D, The Torah. And you by declaring that Yeshua actually taught that eating what is unclean cannot make you unclean have made Yeshua a False Prophet/a False Messiah, and a liar. For it was Yeshua who said He came to bring a doctrine not of His own but HIS who had sent Him.(John 7:16)
'Nuff said.
Let's see why this portion's meaning is completely lost on you as you have twisted it and perverted it's meaning due to your willful ignorance.
The issue occurring in Matthew 15 is the Pharisee's are arguing for the Talmudic ritual washing of the hands before eating.
The Messiah is setting them straight based on The Law of G-D and not the Law of Man.
What do we know?
They are eating with UNWASHED HANDS.
They are eating BREAD.
These verses is Yeshua's arguing against the Talmudic Law, a Law and Tradition of Man, not ordained or commanded by G-D.
There is no commandment in the Torah that teaches against eating with unwashed hands.
There is no commandment that strictly forbids the consumption of ALL bread, outside of Festivals of Leviticus and Deuteronomy which G-D commands HIS people to fast the consumption of ALL food for a period of time.
Point blank, you don't understand what Yeshua us teaching on because you don't know the writings of Moses, for if you had known Moses you would have understood Yeshua, for Moses wrote of Yeshua.
And this is a scriptural falsehood. For Yeshua to teach this would mean that He is contradiction the words of HIS Father which teaches that the eating of unclean foods do in fact make a person unclean until the evening of the next day.
See Leviticus 11:24-47
[FONT="]24 “Moreover, by these also you will become unclean: whoever touches their carcasses shall be unclean until the evening. [/FONT][FONT="]25 Whoever carries any part of their carcass is to wash his clothes, and will be unclean until the evening. [/FONT][FONT="]26 “Every animal with a separating hoof but not split, or does not chew cud, is unclean to you. Everyone who touches them will become unclean. [/FONT][FONT="]27 So whatever moves on its paws, among all animals that go on all fours, is unclean to you. Whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean until the evening. [/FONT][FONT="]28 Whoever carries their carcasses, is to wash his clothes and will be unclean until the evening. They are unclean to you.[/FONT][FONT="]29 “Among the creeping things that creep on the earth, the following are unclean to you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, 30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. 31 Among all that creep these are the ones that are unclean to you. Whoever touches them when they are dead, will be unclean until the evening. 32 Whatever falls on them when they are dead will become unclean, whether it is any vessel of wood, or clothing, or skin, or sackcloth. Whatever vessel it is, with which any work is done, it must be put into water, and it will be unclean until the evening, then it will be clean.[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 “Now if any of them falls into a clay pot, everything that is in it will become unclean, and you are to break it. 34 Any food that may be eaten but has water on it from such a pot will become unclean. Also any drink that may be drunk in any such pot will become unclean. 35 Everything on which part of their carcass falls will become unclean. An oven or stove for pots is to be broken in pieces. They are unclean and will be unclean to you. 36 Nevertheless, a spring or a cistern for collecting water will be clean, though anyone who touches their carcass will become unclean. 37 If part of a carcass falls on any seed for sowing that has yet to be sown, it is clean. 38 But if water is put on the seed, and part of a carcass falls on it, it is unclean to you. 39 “If any animal that you may eat dies, the one who touches its carcass will become unclean until the evening. 40 He who eats of its carcass is to wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening. Also, the one who carries its carcass is to wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening.[/FONT]
[FONT="]41 “Every creeping thing that crawls on the earth is detestable—it should not be eaten. 42 Whatever moves on its belly or crawls on all fours or has many feet among all the creeping things that crawl on the earth, these you are not to eat, for they are detestable. 43 You are not to contaminate yourselves with any creeping thing that crawls nor make yourselves unclean with them or defiled by them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]44 “For I am Adonai your God. Therefore, sanctify yourselves, and be holy, for I am holy. You are not to defile yourselves with any kind of creeping thing that moves on the earth. 45 For I am Adonai who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God.[a]Therefore, you shall be holy, for I am holy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]46 “This is the Torah of the animal, the bird, every living creature that moves in the waters, and every creature that creeps on the earth, 47 to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean, and between the living thing that may be eaten and the living thing that may not be eaten.”[/FONT]
Yeshua is not teaching on what is and what is not food, He is teaching against the Traditions of Men that are used to create an uneasy yoke of bondage which is found nowhere in the Law of G-D, The Torah. And you by declaring that Yeshua actually taught that eating what is unclean cannot make you unclean have made Yeshua a False Prophet/a False Messiah, and a liar. For it was Yeshua who said He came to bring a doctrine not of His own but HIS who had sent Him.(John 7:16)
'Nuff said.
I stand by what I wrote - and what Jesus Christ said.
No food, and no person for that matter, is actually unclean.
I get your devotion to Pharisaism but that is your cross to bear....
In particular, as a NEW testament believer, the Sinai covenant and the Torah is no longer binding.
There is no place where the newly established church affirms this, and in particular the dietary laws....
No food, and no person for that matter, is actually unclean.
I get your devotion to Pharisaism but that is your cross to bear....
In particular, as a NEW testament believer, the Sinai covenant and the Torah is no longer binding.
There is no place where the newly established church affirms this, and in particular the dietary laws....
Yes, indeed. Apart from consuming blood, or eating meats which are strangled or offered to idols. See Acts 15.
The dietary laws from the Old Covenant has been abolished, and all meats are clean for Christians (1 Tim 4:1-5). However if the "weaker brethren" want to have scruples, they are free to do so. At the same time, they are forbidden from condemning those who have this liberty in Christ. As Jesus said, it is not what goes into the belly that defiles a man, but what comes out of the heart. That should settle the issue.
The dietary laws from the Old Covenant has been abolished, and all meats are clean for Christians (1 Tim 4:1-5). However if the "weaker brethren" want to have scruples, they are free to do so. At the same time, they are forbidden from condemning those who have this liberty in Christ. As Jesus said, it is not what goes into the belly that defiles a man, but what comes out of the heart. That should settle the issue.
The first half of this statement is the only true portion, as Christ never taught what you are suggesting.
Again, there no scriptural evidence for this, it contradicts the very words of G-D in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, as well as relying on an individual to completely ignore the meaning of, and the twisting of scripture.
I am not a Pharisee, a Pharisee is a religious scholar of the Torah and the Talmud, who while teaching the letter of the Law does not live the spirit of the Law. I am simply a bible believing, Follower of the Way, that is the Messiah, sent by the G-D of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.
Just as well, this shows you truly haven't read the writings of Moses, The Prophets, or of the Kings. It even goes to show you don't understand the writings of the New Testament as there is no such thing as a "Newly Established Church".
If you say there is no longer a Torah or the Torah is no longer "binding" then you not only contradict the words of G-D and Yeshua you have made the necessity of a Messiah useless.
"Sin is the transgression of the Law(Torah)"-1 John 3:4
So, if there is no Law, there is no Sin. If there is no sin, there is no need for a Savior to save you from the condemnation which comes when you sin.
Not only that, just to show Paul completely disagrees with you about a "Newly Established Church" read Acts 7:38.
"This is He, who having been in the Church in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke with him on Mount Sinai and with our Fathers, who received the living oracles to give to us."
Paul is saying that we are in the SAME church(ekklesia) that was in the Wilderness at Mount Sinai, where the living oracles were given. There is no "New Church".
In fact, the Old Testament Prophets never teach of a "New Church" but of the same People who are going to be part of the New Covenant.
Jeremiah 31:31-33
"[FONT="]30 “Behold, days are coming”—it is a declaration of Adonai—“when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—31 not like the covenant [/FONT][FONT="]I made with their fathers[/FONT]
[FONT="]in the day I took them by the hand [/FONT][FONT="]to bring them out of the land of Egypt. [/FONT][FONT="]For they broke My covenant, [/FONT][FONT="]though I was a husband to them.” it is a declaration of Adonai.[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days”—it is a declaration of Adonai—[/FONT][FONT="]“I will put My Torah within them. [/FONT][FONT="]Yes, I will write it on their heart. I will be their God and they will be My people. [/FONT][FONT="]No longer will each teach his neighbor [/FONT][FONT="]or each his brother, saying: ‘Know Adonai,’ [/FONT][FONT="]for they will all know Me, [/FONT][FONT="]from the least of them to the greatest.” [/FONT][FONT="]it is a declaration of Adonai. [/FONT][FONT="]“For I will forgive their iniquity, their sin I will remember no more.”[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]According to Jeremiah, the Prophet, the New Covenant would include the House of Israel and The House of Judah. It says nothing of a "New House" in the New Covenant. And Ezekiel when speaking of the future of the House of Judah and the House of Israel says that "these two sticks, shall become one" in Ezekiel 37. The Two sticks being representative of Judah and Ephraim(the heir to Israel)
And finally just to prove further that you are uneducated in what you speaking not only because you are blatantly wrong and in contradiction with the word of G-D, a simple game of logic proves you wrong.
G-D says this about the Law:
"The Law is perfect" - Pslams 19:7
"Refreshes the soul" - Psalms 19:7
"Making the simple, wise" - Psalms 19:7
"the Law is truth" - Pslams 119:142
"the Law is holy" -Romans 7:12
"the Law is just" -Romans 7:12
"the Law is good" - Romans 7:12
"your righteous Law is eternal" -Psalms 119:160
"the Law is Spirit" -Romans 7:14
"the Law is eternal, standing firm in the heavens" - Psalms 119:89
Romans 7 teaches that the Law is SPIRIT, Psalms 119 teaches the Law to be Truth.
How, again, are we to worship G-D?
"G-D is spirit, those who worship HIM must do so in SPIRIT and in TRUTH"-John 4:24
John is teaching us to worship G-D by FOLLOWING THE LAW.
As is OUR DUTY
"[FONT="]A final word, when all has been heard: [/FONT][FONT="]Fear God and keep His commandments! [/FONT][FONT="]For such is the duty of Mankind." - Ecclesiastes 12:13
[/FONT]For such is the love of G-D
"This is love for God: that you keep HIS commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,"
So, if the Law is Perfect, refreshing to the soul, makes the simple to be wise, Truth, Holy, Just, Good, and Eternal why are so adamant for it to be done away with? Especially when the Law is the basis by which we are to both LOVE and WORSHIP G-D.
Yeshua never spoke against the Law, neither did Paul, John, Peter or any other Apostle.
Matthew 5:17-18
[FONT="]“Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or dot shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass."
[/FONT]Acts 24:14
[FONT="]“But this I confess to you, that according to the Way (which they call a sect), I worship the God of our fathers,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]believing everything written in the Torah and the Prophets."
[/FONT]Acts 10:14
[FONT="]Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything uncommon or unclean.”[/FONT]
Again, there no scriptural evidence for this, it contradicts the very words of G-D in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, as well as relying on an individual to completely ignore the meaning of, and the twisting of scripture.
I am not a Pharisee, a Pharisee is a religious scholar of the Torah and the Talmud, who while teaching the letter of the Law does not live the spirit of the Law. I am simply a bible believing, Follower of the Way, that is the Messiah, sent by the G-D of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.
Just as well, this shows you truly haven't read the writings of Moses, The Prophets, or of the Kings. It even goes to show you don't understand the writings of the New Testament as there is no such thing as a "Newly Established Church".
If you say there is no longer a Torah or the Torah is no longer "binding" then you not only contradict the words of G-D and Yeshua you have made the necessity of a Messiah useless.
"Sin is the transgression of the Law(Torah)"-1 John 3:4
So, if there is no Law, there is no Sin. If there is no sin, there is no need for a Savior to save you from the condemnation which comes when you sin.
Not only that, just to show Paul completely disagrees with you about a "Newly Established Church" read Acts 7:38.
"This is He, who having been in the Church in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke with him on Mount Sinai and with our Fathers, who received the living oracles to give to us."
Paul is saying that we are in the SAME church(ekklesia) that was in the Wilderness at Mount Sinai, where the living oracles were given. There is no "New Church".
In fact, the Old Testament Prophets never teach of a "New Church" but of the same People who are going to be part of the New Covenant.
Jeremiah 31:31-33
"[FONT="]30 “Behold, days are coming”—it is a declaration of Adonai—“when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—31 not like the covenant [/FONT][FONT="]I made with their fathers[/FONT]
[FONT="]in the day I took them by the hand [/FONT][FONT="]to bring them out of the land of Egypt. [/FONT][FONT="]For they broke My covenant, [/FONT][FONT="]though I was a husband to them.” it is a declaration of Adonai.[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days”—it is a declaration of Adonai—[/FONT][FONT="]“I will put My Torah within them. [/FONT][FONT="]Yes, I will write it on their heart. I will be their God and they will be My people. [/FONT][FONT="]No longer will each teach his neighbor [/FONT][FONT="]or each his brother, saying: ‘Know Adonai,’ [/FONT][FONT="]for they will all know Me, [/FONT][FONT="]from the least of them to the greatest.” [/FONT][FONT="]it is a declaration of Adonai. [/FONT][FONT="]“For I will forgive their iniquity, their sin I will remember no more.”[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]According to Jeremiah, the Prophet, the New Covenant would include the House of Israel and The House of Judah. It says nothing of a "New House" in the New Covenant. And Ezekiel when speaking of the future of the House of Judah and the House of Israel says that "these two sticks, shall become one" in Ezekiel 37. The Two sticks being representative of Judah and Ephraim(the heir to Israel)
And finally just to prove further that you are uneducated in what you speaking not only because you are blatantly wrong and in contradiction with the word of G-D, a simple game of logic proves you wrong.
G-D says this about the Law:
"The Law is perfect" - Pslams 19:7
"Refreshes the soul" - Psalms 19:7
"Making the simple, wise" - Psalms 19:7
"the Law is truth" - Pslams 119:142
"the Law is holy" -Romans 7:12
"the Law is just" -Romans 7:12
"the Law is good" - Romans 7:12
"your righteous Law is eternal" -Psalms 119:160
"the Law is Spirit" -Romans 7:14
"the Law is eternal, standing firm in the heavens" - Psalms 119:89
Romans 7 teaches that the Law is SPIRIT, Psalms 119 teaches the Law to be Truth.
How, again, are we to worship G-D?
"G-D is spirit, those who worship HIM must do so in SPIRIT and in TRUTH"-John 4:24
John is teaching us to worship G-D by FOLLOWING THE LAW.
As is OUR DUTY
"[FONT="]A final word, when all has been heard: [/FONT][FONT="]Fear God and keep His commandments! [/FONT][FONT="]For such is the duty of Mankind." - Ecclesiastes 12:13
[/FONT]For such is the love of G-D
"This is love for God: that you keep HIS commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,"
So, if the Law is Perfect, refreshing to the soul, makes the simple to be wise, Truth, Holy, Just, Good, and Eternal why are so adamant for it to be done away with? Especially when the Law is the basis by which we are to both LOVE and WORSHIP G-D.
Yeshua never spoke against the Law, neither did Paul, John, Peter or any other Apostle.
Matthew 5:17-18
[FONT="]“Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or dot shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass."
[/FONT]Acts 24:14
[FONT="]“But this I confess to you, that according to the Way (which they call a sect), I worship the God of our fathers,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]believing everything written in the Torah and the Prophets."
[/FONT]Acts 10:14
[FONT="]Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything uncommon or unclean.”[/FONT]
When you try to convince me that I am subject to a covenant (the Sinaitic covenant) and its dietary laws, when it is quite clear as a New covenant believer that I am not then I lose interest in what you are saying.....
If those dietary laws are still in force then so is the ENTIRE Torah...is this your message?
If those dietary laws are still in force then so is the ENTIRE Torah...is this your message?
I'd like to add to the discussion if I may...
If you are a "New Testament/ New Covenant" Christian you MUST believe that the Torah is in effect or:
1. there is NO SIN...Sin is transgression of the Law 1John 3:4
2. there is No standard for repentance in the new covenant...Hebrews 8:10...this shall be the covenant... I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.
3. It removes the proof of Faith...Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Now most Christians will disagree with Paul, as a matter of point, I think if Paul made the statement in Romans 3:31 to a modern day church they would ask him to leave.
Most Christians do not have Biblical Faith according to the scriptures, they have the Hope of salvation but no substance of Faith. As we have from the biblical definition of Faith in Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Yet Biblical Faith is a substantive thing, that is when one has Faith in the bible and the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob their hope will not be void, rather it will become substance infact showing our Faith in the invisible God unseen. We prove our selves by our life's actions, this is called Sanctification.
The 'New Testament' Scriptures are clear that the Law is still the standard of good and evil, blessing and cursing, righteousness and wickedness, and yes even Clean and Uncleanness. The Word of God is the Same Yesterday, Today and Forever! Praise YHWH for his faithfulness and mercy.
I Hope this helps.
renewedcovenantministry.com
If you are a "New Testament/ New Covenant" Christian you MUST believe that the Torah is in effect or:
1. there is NO SIN...Sin is transgression of the Law 1John 3:4
2. there is No standard for repentance in the new covenant...Hebrews 8:10...this shall be the covenant... I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.
3. It removes the proof of Faith...Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Now most Christians will disagree with Paul, as a matter of point, I think if Paul made the statement in Romans 3:31 to a modern day church they would ask him to leave.
Most Christians do not have Biblical Faith according to the scriptures, they have the Hope of salvation but no substance of Faith. As we have from the biblical definition of Faith in Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Yet Biblical Faith is a substantive thing, that is when one has Faith in the bible and the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob their hope will not be void, rather it will become substance infact showing our Faith in the invisible God unseen. We prove our selves by our life's actions, this is called Sanctification.
The 'New Testament' Scriptures are clear that the Law is still the standard of good and evil, blessing and cursing, righteousness and wickedness, and yes even Clean and Uncleanness. The Word of God is the Same Yesterday, Today and Forever! Praise YHWH for his faithfulness and mercy.
I Hope this helps.
renewedcovenantministry.com
Do you follow every precet of the Torah?
Observe every day and festival?
Sacrifice at the temple for atonement of sins?
If the Torah is still binding on New covenant believers then NOT doing all of these things EXACTLY as spelled out in the Torah constitutes sin and eternal condemnation!!!!
One cannot pick and choose bits and pieces of the Torah as convenient......
But no, New covenant believers are NOT subject to the demands of the Sinaitic covenant!
Observe every day and festival?
Sacrifice at the temple for atonement of sins?
If the Torah is still binding on New covenant believers then NOT doing all of these things EXACTLY as spelled out in the Torah constitutes sin and eternal condemnation!!!!
One cannot pick and choose bits and pieces of the Torah as convenient......
But no, New covenant believers are NOT subject to the demands of the Sinaitic covenant!
Hey, thanks for the response!
Yes, I and many people keep what we are able to of the Law.
I have my sons circumcised on the 8th day, keep Sabbath and feasts, and eat clean, my wife even knits our families socks so that we do not wear blended clothing contrary to Deu 22:11.
And I could go on and on, but the point is not how much Torah I follow but how much God has blessed us by His Law and how by my actions I can worship him. I follow God's Law because I want to be like his son, and his son Jesus Christ followed his father's Law perfectly. Now I know some one will say "you can't follow it perfectly!", and they are absolutely correct and that is why I need a Savior, but the least I can do is try my best.
Do I sacrifice? NO WAY! Why, Because I am not following the Torah? Not at all.
As a matter of fact I don't sacrifice because because that would be unlawfull to do so, it would be a sin:
Lev 17:8-9 ...Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice, And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the LORD; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.
Because God destroyed the temple and removed the Levites and Priests it is a sin to sacrifice.
I believe this is why the Father sent Christ to be or Sacrifice, because the Father knew that the sacrifice would be removed and that He desired His people to worship Him in spirit and truth.
Peace and Grace!
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Yes, I and many people keep what we are able to of the Law.
I have my sons circumcised on the 8th day, keep Sabbath and feasts, and eat clean, my wife even knits our families socks so that we do not wear blended clothing contrary to Deu 22:11.
And I could go on and on, but the point is not how much Torah I follow but how much God has blessed us by His Law and how by my actions I can worship him. I follow God's Law because I want to be like his son, and his son Jesus Christ followed his father's Law perfectly. Now I know some one will say "you can't follow it perfectly!", and they are absolutely correct and that is why I need a Savior, but the least I can do is try my best.
Do I sacrifice? NO WAY! Why, Because I am not following the Torah? Not at all.
As a matter of fact I don't sacrifice because because that would be unlawfull to do so, it would be a sin:
Lev 17:8-9 ...Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice, And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer it unto the LORD; even that man shall be cut off from among his people.
Because God destroyed the temple and removed the Levites and Priests it is a sin to sacrifice.
I believe this is why the Father sent Christ to be or Sacrifice, because the Father knew that the sacrifice would be removed and that He desired His people to worship Him in spirit and truth.
Peace and Grace!
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
If you break on part of the law you are guilty on all points!
You are trying to tell me that you "keep the law" - you actually do not and cannot, while claiming salvation in Christ Jesus at the same time!!!
Good luck with that...
You are trying to appropriate two covenants simultaneously, when, in fact, one covenant (the New covenant) has abrogated the other (the Sinaitic covenant).
You are trying to tell me that you "keep the law" - you actually do not and cannot, while claiming salvation in Christ Jesus at the same time!!!
Good luck with that...
You are trying to appropriate two covenants simultaneously, when, in fact, one covenant (the New covenant) has abrogated the other (the Sinaitic covenant).
I don't know why people who claim to be 'New testament/ New Covenant' don't read the terms of the New Covenant made in Christ's blood Jeramiah 31:31-35, Hebrews 8:8-15 tell us very plainly that the New Covenant is about Law and Forgiveness...plain and simple. You guys aren't arguing with me, just read the bible.
I truly hope this helps!
I truly hope this helps!