FROM THE DESK OF......

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Stunnedbygrace said:
Well, just add visiting the sick to your list. (It's sending flowers and not actually visiting, but it can loosely work). Is it Gods' will that we are kind to the sick and visit them? Isn't it a good work?
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I always thought so too........but I was instructed that Gods Will is that we believe in Jesus.

Apparently that's it.........and that is why I am seeking to understand what these "good works" are and how important they are, or if they are important at all
 
I have issues.. not the kind you're speaking of, but still... :p

eternally-gratefull said:
Thats ok, Many people here know I disagree with their theology and we are still great friends. It is just a few select people that seems to have issues.. Wonder why that is?

Thats not the issue.. So I am not worried about what you THINK..

But thanks anyway.
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Here is a list of good works.. Volunteering at a soup kitchen. Donating money to charity. Mowing a disabled neighbor's lawn. Shoveling an elderly person's yard. Giving a meal to a homeless person. Holding the door open for someone at the store.

These are ALL good works. :) And yes, they're important. But not for gaining access to heaven.


p_rehbein said:
I always thought so too........but I was instructed that Gods Will is that we believe in Jesus.

Apparently that's it.........and that is why I am seeking to understand what these "good works" are and how important they are, or if they are important at all
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blue_ladybug said:

His point is, that I'm saying the exact same thing that you're saying. That Jesus is the rock. :) Jesus IS our salvation. HE is the reason we can be secure in that. I have NEVER stated otherwise, and I challenge you to find one post where I have. When I said that not all houses that are built upon rocks are secure, I meant that literally. The ONLY rock that IS secure to build our houses on, is Jesus. :)
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I know hew hates me, Maybe he will repent to you..
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
Works is not just trying to keep mosaic law. You can be stuck in works even though you don't try to keep mosaic law.
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I think you misunderstood me sis, , I said a work was any type of trying to obey any kind of law (I used the works of the law and the woks of obeying Christ i.e. baptism, going to church, feeding the poor. Taking commuinion. etc etc)

All those are things we should be doing because God commanded them, But they are still WORKS.

 
p_rehbein said:
Been no evidence of your understanding thus far......but, keep trying......who knows? There is always hope.

Not once have I boasted about anything. So, again you lie about what I have said here. That is becoming a pattern with you isn't it......

And, you continue to ignore what I have said so many times........here, let me try once more, and see if you can understand this time......

To be obedient to Christ, one must first be saved.

I have repeatedly said that here on many posts, yet you and the others deny what I have said.

I already addressed "the Will of the Father." You have also ignored that, and pretend that I have said something different. Are you an honest person or not?

Here, since you ignored it the first time, let us try again:

How can you possibly be that narrow in your thinking? How do you suppose one can be obedient WITHOUT FAITH? How do you suppose one can obediently do Gods will WITHOUT BEING PREPARED TO DO SO BY THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Obedience to Christ IS ONLY ACHIEVED BY BELIEVING IN HIM! Without belief/faith.......there IS NO OBEDIENCE

goodness
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That's the exact point Christ is making to these religious Jews. They are doing all the "right" things but they have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God. In verse 22 they claim they have done the things required by prophesy and wonderful works yet they did so in their strength and not by the Holy Spirit.

We are to be obedient as part of our witness for Christ to draw that lost to Him. We do not show obedience to gain security in our salvation. Eph 2:10 we are created to good works so that the lost who may never darken a church door will see Christ in us.

We love one another and care for the needy as a testimony we belong to Christ not to secure our eternity. Our eternity is secure in the promises we have received from Him.

Those in verse 23 of Mat 7 we doing the "right" things but for the wrong reasons. I know you are deeply invested in this belief but you have it wrong. It's not what you do but why you do it. You do not do for self but for Christ.

You have my sympathy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Hello P_rehbein,

Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
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You left out some important contextual information from the scripture above. Here it is in its fullness.

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "

In the scripture above those who say "Lord, Lord" is an example of those who believe themselves to be Christian. But when they find out that they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, their own words reveal why they will not be able to when they will say, "did we not," which demonstrates that instead of trusting in Christ for their salvation, they claimed their own works of prophesying, casting out demons and performing many miracles as the reason as to why they should be able to enter in. The correct answer and attitude should be "Lord, Lord, did you not shed your blood for us?"

Therefore, their not doing the will of the Father, is that they will have trusted in their own works, instead of having faith in Christ.
 
p_rehbein said:
None of that has anything to do with Matthew 7:21. So what is your point exactly?

By the by........do YOU know what Gods Will is?

Those who are saved DO THE WILL OF GOD

What is this will we are suppose to do exactly?
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lol. It has everything to do with what Jesus said

He said those who are his do his commands.

Of course they do.. John said those who are his can not NOT do his commands.

Thats how we can know WHO is in christ and who is most likely not in christ.

What is the will of God?

[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

He makes us a new creation, We act out our new creation (yes we have to grow in grace and truth, but we still act out out new creation, we do not live as we did before (disobedient) that was JOHNS point.

People learn to obey Gods commands by learning to TRUST IN CHRIST.

that is why we must have FAITH FIRST (you even said this yourself. why are you fighting it? Obedience comes from faith NOT SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
And rehbein, I'm mostly or halfway joking about the spaghetti dinner, but...just in case I COULD pull it together, what part of the country do YOU live in?? :)
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Wow an offer like that on a global platform could bring folks from all over the world. Hope you have lots of extra chairs. Everybody bring your favorite sauce and a loaf of bread. A truck load of noodles and since its a special occasion some cheese and you are all set.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
p_rehbein said:
Funny........that is not what I am asking.......speaking of the list I posted...........are they His will? I have been told they are not. If not, are they optional? If so, then we are not required to do them right?
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Please post the post where someone said they are not Gods will.

Please. just one person who said this, I would love to see it
 
p_rehbein said:
If I misread your comment, then that's my bad......and I am glad you agree that Jesus is the ROCK.

My point was (and remains) that we can never be obedient to Him without first believing in Him, and that He is the ROCK we build our spiritual house on. If that is works salvation, then so be it.......
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no one said that was works salvation.

Works salvation says if we stop being obedient, we lose salvation.

You have been asked numerous times now. DO you believe this or not?
 
blue_ladybug said:
I think that you don't know WHAT works-based salvation even is. It is doing works solely for the purpose of getting to heaven. So if you think that doing things such as donating alot of money to charities, or mowing a neighbor's lawn, or helping someone out every day will secure your seat in heaven, you are dead wrong.

WORKS DO NOT GET US INTO HEAVEN. Works have NOTHING to do with getting to heaven. It is our FAITH and BELIEF in Jesus, that secures our salvation. :)

Seriously, is this the NBW thread, version 2.0? LOL
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if I am wrong he can correct me, (and for the record, I pray I am wrong)

His view is works do not earn salvation.

But unless he has changed his view, falling away (stop dong works) can cause loss of salvation.

I have asked him multiple times now. maybe he will finally answer.
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
I think I get what you want someone to say now...you want someone to say it is His will that we keep trusting and relying on Him and His work in us and then these things are a result of His work in us.

Why do you think that other people think, and obviously they really do think it, that you do not understand that those things are all results of Him in us?
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I think it's because he believes a born again child of God can lose his salvation and have his Father throw them in hell.
Sorry if I got that wrong. But that thinking taints every post regarding works or obedience.
 
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