Not By Works

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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]
 
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You did not answer my question, Does The Messiah still follow and honor the Father's commands, would he if he came to earth once again, or we he go around eating pork and disregarding the Sabbath. If the Messiah himself stated in Matthew that He did NOT come to do away with the law but to fulfill (walk out) then please tell me who's words are you really saying.
Yea but he didn't really mean it, too.
But you are right, Yahweh does not cast anyone out when we fail, that is where grace comes in. But do we then sin more so grace may abound. NO.
You say we all struggle with sin, and you are right. I believe we will not stop struggling until the corruptible puts on the incorruptible, But we should NOT live in it.
Now the question is what is sin?
I have hidden YOUR word in my heart that I may NOT sin against YOU.
SO please tell me according to scripture:
What is sin?
What is worldliness?
What is being set apart?
What is the renewing of your mind?
What is spiritual and what is carnal?
What are the fruits of the spirit and why are they called this?

You mentioned all these things and said the renewing of our mind can be stunted by lack of study which I agree with 100%
So I'm sure you know where all these scriptures are that identify what scripture says about ea. of these things.
SCRIPTURE / NOT A PASTOR'S INTEREPRETATION.

can't wait to see your reply.

All scripture aligns perfectly within itself, if something within it seems to contradict, it is usually reader error.

[h=1]2 Timothy 2:15[/h]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto Elohim, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
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Jesus isn't cursed. But according to Paul Jesus became a curse for US.

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it has been written: "Cursed is everyone hanging on a tree"-- 4so that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that through faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.


Right there in black and white.

Please also note that Paul said the Law carried a curse with it. And Jesus redeemed us from it. That's one to consider for everyone who think we should still be under the Law.


AMEN brother....I have quoted it like 4 or 5 times and he and his other working for pal who is no longer with us have all accused me of calling Jesus cursed and God a liar....I am sick of his deceit......
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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You did not answer my question, Does The Messiah still follow and honor the Father's commands, would he if he came to earth once again, or we he go around eating pork and disregarding the Sabbath.
Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

If the Messiah himself stated in Matthew that He did NOT come to do away with the law but to fulfill (walk out) then please tell me who's words are you really saying.
Yea but he didn't really mean it, too.
John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”

John 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

John 5:19-20, “Therefore יהושע responded and said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son is able to do none at all by Himself, but only that which He sees the Father doing, because whatever He does, the Son also likewise does. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all that He Himself does. And greater works than these He is going to show Him, in order that you marvel.”

John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”

But you are right, Yahweh does not cast anyone out when we fail, that is where grace comes in. But do we then sin more so grace may abound. NO.
You say we all struggle with sin, and you are right. I believe we will not stop struggling until the corruptible puts on the incorruptible, But we should NOT live in it.
Now the question is what is sin?
I have hidden YOUR word in my heart that I may NOT sin against YOU.
SO please tell me according to scripture:
Ezekiyl 18:23, “Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live?”

Psalm 130:5, “I looked to יהוה, My being has looked, And for His word I have waited. My being looks to יהוה More than those watching for morning, watching for morning. O Yisra’yl, wait for יהוה; For with יהוה there is loving-commitment. And with Him is much redemption.”

Psalm 119:11, “I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.”

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."



1 John 2:15-17, “Do not love the world, nor the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world: the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passes away, with the lust that is in it; but he who does the will of YHWH abides forever.”


What is being set apart?
set it apart” is word #H6942 קָדַשׁ qadash (kaw-dash') v., 1. to be clean (ceremonially or morally)., 2. (causatively) to make, pronounce or observe as clean (ceremonially or morally)., [a primitive root], KJV: appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy(-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify(-ied one, self), X wholly

What is the renewing of your mind?
Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and
put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (
Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”


What is spiritual and what is carnal?
Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual...”

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."

What are the fruits of the spirit and why are they called this?
Galatians 5:22-25, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, righteousness, Faith, Meekness, temperance, such things are not against any Law. And those who are the Messiah's have sacrificed the flesh, with its passions and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”

John 14:16-17, “And I shall ask the Father, and He shall give you another Helper, to stay with you forever the Spirit of the Truth, whom the world is unable to receive, because it does not see Him or know Him. But you know Him, for He stays with you and shall be in you.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, ifyou do whatever I command you."
 
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There Is a justified by faith to GOD who looks at the heart and there Is justifying your faith to men who can only judge what he or she sees.
The scriptures that Paul and James wrote were both Inspired by GOD so then we know that those scriptures would need to be harmonized together so that they are not sounding contradictory .
And they do harmonize when viewed in context which is.......

Romans-->A man is justified before GOD by faith without works
James-->The above faith which justifies before GOD without works is SEEN and JUSTIFIED before MEN by works

End of story....JAMES is not saying that works save, keep save or render a man just and saved before GOD......
 
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Katy,
If indeed you are lost again, do not give up: God is still there and will receive you back and you can once again find peace and love and security and salvation in Him: What He asks has never changed: Believe in me and you will be saved!
SHE is not lost and or indicated that she has lost her salvation......

a. That is impossible because she is eternally secure
b. If one could possibly lose salvation they are doomed forever

The text in HEBREWS that most use out of context to prove salvation can be lost is exactly the opposite....it proves it cannot be lost and states clearly there is NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SIN....

ASK ALL who state it can be lost and MOST wills say they have never lost it and if they did...it is IMPOSSIBLE to be renewed!
 
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Why do you reject any Biblical aid written by Christians? You say Bible only. I therefore defy you to find all verses on the topic of salvation in the Bible including the Old Testament. Here is where Bible aids help people studying the Bible. The Apostles Creed was created in church history when divisions accured and there were heresies. It was created to define who is and isn't a Christian. Any group not meeting that standard is in heresy. Without that short standard how do you research if a topic is heretical. I know, sit down and read the whole Bible!!

Topical indexes and the comprehensive systematic theology books point to verses on the subject. In addition there are many books on different topics written by Christians to help people understand what the Bible says about different topics. Also in Sunday School and other Bible study groups there are teaching aids with pamphlets for each person and a special teaching pamphlet for the leader. In all of these verses in the Bible are used to verify what the text is saying.

Each denomination has a document outlining it's view of the Bible with verses showing where they get their view from. For example the Reformed Church has the Heidelberg Catechism and the Canons of Dort. Presbyterian PCA uses the Westminster Confession and the Larger and Shorter Catechism. In addition most denominations have a Book of Church Order defining the church government and the standards of the faith.

In my considered opinion being a Christian for 69 years and taking classes in theology in order to become first a deacon and later an elder you are very opinionated with the view you are right and anyone disagreeing with you is non Biblical. You might say different but that is how you come across. Maintaining Bible only is foolish. The Bible is the standard but books aid in getting pointed to the verses on a topic.
yeah you keep saying this which is nothing more than opinion....again I will state...the bible is my rule of faith and practice...not some document put together by men who were not inspired......as far as the 69 year thing..could care less....so how old are you? AND too be honest...the bolded is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard come out of the mouth of one who claims JESUS......
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Do you know why those commands were written in stone?
"But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)

"
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart
from works of the Law." (Romans 3:28)

"Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because the righteous will live by faith." (Galatians 2:16, 3:11)

"
Christ is the end of the Law" (Romans 10:4)

 
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Cuz people had stone hearts.
EZEKIEL 36: 25-28
[TABLE="class: basictable, width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: smallblue"][/TD]
[TD="class: maintext"]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD="class: smallblue, width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="class: maintext"]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: smallblue, width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="class: maintext"]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD="class: smallblue, width: 60"][/TD]
[TD="class: maintext"]And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your Elohim.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

We can also see in Exodus 20 when the law was given, the 10 commandments were the ones the people themselves heard straight from the same voice Moses heard, thunderings included, but the people were afraid and asked Moses to speak to Yahweh himself and they would listen and whatever was asked of them they would do.
Now we have people making a difference between the same law, it is ONE law and ONE giver for ALL.
Now he is giving us the chance to come to him and not be stubborn like the people in the wilderness but we need to listen and obey. And now because of His Son who lives in us he places that same law in our hearts.
Will we hear and obey? or Will we rise up and say:
Jeremiah 616Thus says Yahweh, "Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, 'Where is the good way?' and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'17I set watchmen over you, saying, 'Listen to the sound of the trumpet!' But they said, 'We will not listen!'18Therefore hear, you nations, and know, congregation, what is among them.19Hear, earth! Behold, I will bring evil on this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not listened to my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.
 
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"But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)

"
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart
from works of the Law." (Romans 3:28)

"Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because the righteous will live by faith." (Galatians 2:16, 3:11)

"
Christ is the end of the Law" (Romans 10:4)

HAHAHA amen bro...I see the lawyers are peddling their wares like the ambulance chasers of old.....They all claim that KEEPING the law makes them righteous in some sort or manner while rejecting the truth that NO man keeps the law, all are law breakers in some form or fashion and that which was designed and implemented to prove guilt will NEVER justify before GOD......The LAW deems the whole world guilty and shuts every mouth (except the lawyers and Pharisees) and points to the only cure before GOD...the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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HAHAHA amen bro...I see the lawyers are peddling their wares like the ambulance chasers of old.....They all claim that KEEPING the law makes them righteous in some sort or manner while rejecting the truth that NO man keeps the law, all are law breakers in some form or fashion and that which was designed and implemented to prove guilt will NEVER justify before GOD......The LAW deems the whole world guilty and shuts every mouth (except the lawyers and Pharisees) and points to the only cure before GOD...the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith.
Amen and AMEN! :)
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:3, “For not knowing the righteousness of Yah, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of Yah.”

This is a much misunderstood passage, for it would be sticking up forthe pharisees who made their own law if misunderstood, it was exposing those who would not submit to Yah but again made their own “way”

Mat 15:2-3, “Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them; And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?”
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:3-4, "For not knowing the righteousness of Yah, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of Yah. For Messiah is the goal of the ‘Torah unto righteousness’ to everyone who believes."

For not knowing the righteousness of Yah, and seeking to establish their own righteousness
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them; And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]We can not earn Salvation by only obedience to the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes YHWH’s mercy and our faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose (telos) of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of our instruction/command is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*goal is word #G5056 télos - Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]
 
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Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law (works) <---end of the story
 
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"But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)

"
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart
from works of the Law." (Romans 3:28)

If there's no law why do we need a savior?
Read these chapters in context
We cannot be justified by the law. This is what ALL these scriptures are saying.
NOT ONE PERSON apart from Yahushua can and will be justified by the law, why? because Not of us apart
from Him have kept the law.

If you only had one command which was not to lie. could you be justified before Yahweh. NO. because I'm pretty sure you have lied at least one time in your life as well as the rest of us. Does that mean that because you can't be justified through that command, that command has now ended for you and you can now freely lie.
This is what you are saying in a whole.
If Paul is truly referring to the law being abolished/ ended then he is not only going against the words of Messiah himself but he contradicts himself.
Romans 3
27Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn't he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith.31Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! No, we establish the law.
So which is it?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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If there's no law why do we need a savior?
We needed Jesus to keep the Law perfectly for us. Which He did. And then the Law was nailed to the cross. (Colossians 2:14)
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done* righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced* evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
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"But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)

"
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart
from works of the Law." (Romans 3:28)

"Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because the righteous will live by faith." (Galatians 2:16, 3:11)

"
Christ is the end of the Law" (Romans 10:4)

There are a lot of scriptures in the Bible.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

These words and many others, which suggest honoring the Word which became Flesh with obedience, are in the same Bible as the ones you posted. They are inspired by the same God.

The Jesus of the Bible said we are to live by "EVERY WORD" that comes from God, not just the words which we can use to support whichever religious franchise we belong to.

I don't believe we are free to judge which of God's Word to listen to and which ones to ignore, though "MANY" who come in His Name do that every day. I don't mind the name calling from Decon or "many" others who come in Christ's Name. Jesus said it would be this way. I think they mean well.

But it sure would be nice if folks could put away their religious traditions for once and simply work to understand "ALL" God's Word's instead of using one verse to beat up anther verse in their defense of religious traditions.

Especially given the warning Jesus gave us about "Christians" coming to deceive.

This unbiased, intellectually honest discussion of scriptures in spite of religious tradition is what I long for.

The Jews weren't interested in such a discussion.

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Religious tradition is a powerful force that the Jesus of the Bible warned over and over about. Sadly, "MANY" refuse to "take heed" because they are convinced they are all set, as prophesied.

Jer. 6:13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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We needed Jesus to keep the Law perfectly for us. Which He did. And then the Law was nailed to the cross. (Colossians 2:14)
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."


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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Philippians 3:17-18, “Join together in imitating me, brothers, and pay close attention to those who live by the example we have given you. For I have often told you, and now tell you even with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Timothy 1:13-15, "Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you. You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]