Not By Works

[Budman]

So in regards to the following, you are partially correct, your error is not recognizing the "Change" in the Priesthood and the "works of the Law" pertaining to it.

By mixing ANY of the Law with grace, you are placing yourself under a curse.

"All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse, for it is written; 'cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the Law'. Clearly, no one is justified before God by the Law, because the righteous shall live by faith" (Galatians 3:10-11)

By faith. Not faith and the Law - or any part of the Law. And you can't get away with only observing parts of the Law. If you insist on adding it, scripture says you must do everything written in the Law.

You are one of the foolish mentioned in Galatians 3:2-3; "Did you receive the Spirit by observing the Law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?"

You have alienated yourself from Christ; "You who are trying to be justified by Law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4)

We are DEAD to the Law! "But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:4,6)

Jesus has made the old covenant obsolete (Hebrews 8:23) because the Law is not made for the righteous (1 Timothy 1:9) which is what we are (Romans 3:22).

 

[BillG]

Thats ok, we can’t be lost again, so we have nothing to fear but fear itself (the lie of satan)

It is very sad but is true.

Over here we have a saying.

Better the devil you know than the one you don't know.

Fear is a killer and it keeps you captive.

But the fear of change is very powerful.

Change is not the issue, the fear of failure is the issue, which leads the fear of rejection, which leads to a works based salvation theology.

I know of many people and I was one of them.

Relying on works burned up but still saved.

That induces fear when people bang on about works saving but neglect that some works are burned up, and we are not saved.

Breaks my heart.

 

[VCO]

I have to share this with you all.


I was reading in The MacArthur commentary, about 1 John 2:1, a couple days ago. I found another definition/responsibility for the HOLY SPIRIT in us.

Advocate: Greek [FONT=Gentium !important]parakletos[/FONT].—2:1—lit. “one who is called to our side.” This Greek term refers to the position of a comforter, consoler, or defense attorney. In John 14:26 and 15:26, the Holy Spirit is called the Helper/Advocate for believers. The Holy Spirit works within us to comfort and help us and also pleads our case before the Father in heaven (Rom. 8:26, 27, 34).

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

When the Devil is there before GOD to accuse us that we are as guilty as he is, WE HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT THERE AS OUR DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have to share this with you all.


I was reading in The MacArthur commentary, about 1 John 2:1, a couple days ago. I found another definition/responsibility for the HOLY SPIRIT in us.





When the Devil is there before GOD to accuse us that we are as guilty as he is, WE HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT THERE AS OUR DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

AMEN....one along side....the only Mediator between God and men....our advocate.....!

 

[BillG]

I have to share this with you all.


I was reading in The MacArthur commentary, about 1 John 2:1, a couple days ago. I found another definition/responsibility for the HOLY SPIRIT in us.





When the Devil is there before GOD to accuse us that we are as guilty as he is, WE HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT THERE AS OUR DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

IT IS FINISHED.

NOT GUILTY.

PRICE PAID.

 

[dcontroversal]

IT IS FINISHED.

NOT GUILTY.

PRICE PAID.

AMEN......paid in full!

 

[Studyman]

By mixing ANY of the Law with grace, you are placing yourself under a curse.

"All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse, for it is written; 'cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the Law'. Clearly, no one is justified before God by the Law, because the righteous shall live by faith" (Galatians 3:10-11)

By faith. Not faith and the Law - or any part of the Law. And you can't get away with only observing parts of the Law. If you insist on adding it, scripture says you must do everything written in the Law.

You are one of the foolish mentioned in Galatians 3:2-3; "Did you receive the Spirit by observing the Law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?"

You have alienated yourself from Christ; "You who are trying to be justified by Law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4)

We are DEAD to the Law! "But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:4,6)

Jesus has made the old covenant obsolete (Hebrews 8:23) because the Law is not made for the righteous (1 Timothy 1:9) which is what we are (Romans 3:22).

Thank you for this Faith Building conversation Budman. It always helps me to see the prophesies of the Word which became Flesh come alive in these exchanges.

 

[Ariel82]

A friend posted this and I believe it's useful to see that the doing away with the ten commandments (which is part of the old covenant at Sinai) and it's replacement with the New Covenant (whose laws were given by Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount)...was prophecied..

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead View Post

GOD wrote the 10 commandments on a second pair of stone tablets that Moses made, which later were stored in the ark of the covenant. The ark and tablets eventually disappeared, which foretold the passing away of the law. The reason Moses wrote it all on a scroll is because it is all one law.

And it shall come to pass that when ye are multiplied and increased upon the land, saith the Lord, in those days they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the Holy One of Israel: it shall not come to mind; it shall not be named; neither shall it be visited; nor shall [this] be done any more. Jeremiah 3:16

 

[Shamah]

By mixing ANY of the Law with grace, you are placing yourself under a curse.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

 

[preacher4truth]

Revelation 14:12-13, Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

That passage is descriptive of true believers.

 

[Shamah]

That passage is descriptive of true believers.

I agree 100%. What gets me is how every one attacks when someone says the Law/His Commandments is the right way to behave...

But it makes sense I guess;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]

 

[Cee]

I agree 100%. What gets me is how every one attacks when someone says the Law/His Commandments is the right way to behave...

But it makes sense I guess;

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושעMessiah."

What gets me is when people ignore numerous Scriptures without trying to reconcile them together with their beliefs. I am continually checking myself from doing this. Which is why when I get involved in a topic, you'll see me start to answer lots of posts. Not because I'm attacking them, I'm simply doing my best to reconcile all the ideas throughout all the Scriptures.

But to be honest, another thing that gets me is generalized statements like, "every one" is attacking something or someone. And then finding a Scripture to accuse people of their own "blanket statement" indictment and generalization.

Its not just you, I have seen it from other people as well, but your post is a convenient example of this tactic. I think people do it unwittingly most of the time.

 

[Shamah]

What gets me is when people ignore numerous Scriptures without trying to reconcile them together with their beliefs. I am continually checking myself from doing this. Which is why when I get involved in a topic, you'll see me start to answer lots of posts. Not because I'm attacking them, I'm simply doing my best to reconcile all the ideas throughout all the Scriptures.

But to be honest, another thing that gets me is generalized statements like, "every one" is attacking something. And then finding a Scripture to accuse people of their own "blanket statement" indictment and generalization.

Its not just you, I have seen it from other people as well, but your post is a convenient example of this tactic. I think people do it unwittingly most of the time.

Yeah I didnt really mean every one, but many do this. I have been on this site for years (currently locked out of my main account, Hiz) and nothing geta accusations like saying His Commandments are right. I get called, "lawyer, pharisee, justified by works, etc etc etc. I know the word well, I can post a ton of verss about this or most Scriptual topics, but if I post a little it's called "out of context" or "random" if I post a full breakdown Im told "nobody will read that it's too long" So be it.

 

[Cee]

Yeah I didnt really mean every one, but many do this. I have been on this site for years (currently locked out of my main account, Hiz) and nothing geta accusations like saying His Commandments are right. I get called, "lawyer, pharisee, justified by works, etc etc etc. I know the word well, I can post a ton of verss about this or most Scriptual topics, but if I post a little it's called "out of context" or "random" if I post a full breakdown Im told "nobody will read that it's too long" So be it.

Haha, well it's not just you. I have been labeled both of those things, as well.

So, I totally get you.

I will write a small post and hear that's out of context.

I will write a long post and no one will comment. Lol.

I think at one point, I stopped trying to teach people and simply show up to share with those open and have a heart posture to learn myself.

When I get too "teachy" it's usually because I am offended or I'm trying to get someone to believe like me, instead of being convinced in their own heart, so I'll end up just leaving for a few months to get my heart right with God.

On the topic of works:

I do believe works are required, but not for salvation.

And I have noticed that often when people preach works, as their argument goes further they end up doing it because they want people to keep the Sabbath. Or they do it without actually labeling what a "good work" is.

The issue I have with simply saying we need "good works" is that a "good work" can become whatever the poster wants it to be.

Which is exactly what the Pharisees did. They even wrote their own little book on what "good works" looked like.

 

[Cee]

Here is the list of the 613 laws in the Torah. They are scattered though it.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses

I was never given the Law.

That was given to Moses not Gentiles.

I don't enter the promise through Moses, I enter it through Abraham.

And he was BEFORE the Law.

The law I am held accountable to is the one on my heart. (Romans 2)

 

[Shamah]

Haha, well it's not just you. I have been labeled both of those things, as well.

So, I totally get you.

I will write a small post and hear that's out of context.

I will write a long post and no one will comment. Lol.

I think at one point, I stopped trying to teach people and simply show up to share with those open and have a heart posture to learn myself.

When I get too "teachy" it's usually because I am offended or I'm trying to get someone to believe like me, instead of being convinced in their own heart, so I'll end up just leaving for a few months to get my heart right with God.

On the topic of works:

I do believe works are required, but not for salvation.

And I have noticed that often when people preach works, as their argument goes further they end up doing it because they want people to keep the Sabbath. Or they do it without actually labeling what a "good work" is.

The issue I have with simply saying we need "good works" is that a "good work' can become whatever the poster wants it to be.

Which is exactly what the Pharisees did. They even wrote their own little book on what "good works" looked like.

I pretty much agre with this. I word it like this, YHWH saves, and those who will enter the kingdom do conform to His will more and more. We might slip and even fall sometimes, but He picks us up and guides us in the way we should go. I myself do beleive in honoring the Sabbath as it is Commanded by Yah, and seeing how Yahshua spoke against the pharisees making their own law I am extra aware to not follow man made religious law or make my own but rather seek His way. I can say the more I seek His way the more I understand it intent and benefits. praiseYah for this. 2 passages that have immense impact on me are these:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens. Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 15:3-9, “But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of YHWH because of your tradition? For YHWH has commanded, saying, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated, is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of YHWH by your tradition."Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14*) prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]both of these were vital in waking me up...


[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:97-104, “O how I love Your Torah! It is my study all day long. Your commands make me wiser than my enemies; For it is ever before me. I have more understanding than all my teachers, For Your witnesses are my study. I understand more than the aged, For I have observed Your orders. I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I might guard Your word. I have not turned aside from Your right-rulings, For You Yourself have taught me. How sweet to my taste has Your word been, More than honey to my mouth! From Your orders I get understanding; Therefore I have hated every false way.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Cee]

Many years ago I read about 2 different words in koine Greek that could have been the root word for baptism. One was immersing a cloth in a dye vat. The other one was washing someone's feet. That second one brings in pouring and sprinkling. It seems everybody on this subject ignores that word. WHY?

PS: The New Testament was written in koine Greek. Koine is the fact that every time Jews use a language they modify it with Hebrew concepts and words. Today Yiddish is Jewish German.

I noticed you replied to some of my posts, but not the one I wrote in regards to this one. Did you see it?

If not here you go: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146296-not-works-2967.html#post3514270

I wish there was a way to tag people in forum posts. It would be so much easier to have an ongoing discussion.

 

[Cee]

I pretty much agre with this. I word it like this, YHWH saves, and those who will enter the kingdom do conform to His will more and more. We might slip and even fall sometimes, but He picks us up and guides us in the way we should go. I myself do beleive in honoring the Sabbath as it is Commanded by Yah, and seeing how Yahshua spoke against the pharisees making their own law I am extra aware to not follow man made religious law or make my own but rather seek His way. I can say the more I seek His way the more I understand it intent and benefits. praiseYah for this. 2 passages that have immense impact on me are these:

Mat 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens. Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’”


Mat 15:3-9, “But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of YHWH because of your tradition? For YHWH has commanded, saying, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated, is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of YHWH by your tradition."Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14*) prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."



both of these were vital in waking me up...



Psalm 119:97-104, “O how I love Your Torah! It is my study all day long. Your commands make me wiser than my enemies; For it is ever before me. I have more understanding than all my teachers, For Your witnesses are my study. I understand more than the aged, For I have observed Your orders. I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I might guard Your word. I have not turned aside from Your right-rulings, For You Yourself have taught me. How sweet to my taste has Your word been, More than honey to my mouth! From Your orders I get understanding; Therefore I have hated every false way.”

That's fair.

In regards to the Scripture you shared, here's my thoughts it says Jesus never knew them, not knew them and lost them. Also notice they are focusing on their works, not on His work. I believe He was pointing them to their need for Him.

Teaching to not regard His commandments, I believe He is focusing them once again on the fact they were sinners, and they needed Him. If they thought they were blameless before the Law, they didn't need a Savior, but they were desperately in need of Him.

I appreciate you for sharing.

So here is what woke me up.

When Jesus repeats the commandments, basically saying, you have heard this... but I say to you. He doesn't repeat the Sabbath. Why? I believe it is because we are called to keep the Sabbath every day. Jesus is our Sabbath.

When I am told the Commandments written by God's very finger in Stone were not done away with FOR the believer, I go back to this Scripture here:

2 CO 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,

This shows me that the Law being done away with was actually the 10 commandments.

Or I could refer to Scriptures that teach we are dead to the Law now because we are alive to Christ.

In regards to Jesus saying He did not come to abolish the Law, but fulfill it.

I refer to this Scripture here:

Galatians 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Jesus loved us, so we could love one another. And Love fulfills the Law.

Thoughts?

 

[Seohce]

dcon says;

BLAH BLAH BLAH more working for pseudo salvation.....My bible teaches salvation is a present CURRENT possession.....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US <--PAST TENSE

YES..JESUS did become SIN for us....<--Only a deceiver would reject this truth as well....

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

JESUS was BORN of a WOMAN, BORN UNDER THE LAW and “was CURSED” when he hung on a TREE....<--Only deceivers would reject the word of God which states as much....

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "

FOLKS any and all who deny the above truths have proven they are not of GOD....DO NOT BELIEVE POST 59510..HE DENIES these truths and supplants them with HALF truths and deceit just like the garden when the serpent removed and then added his own words to the bible.......

Seohce

...”JESUS was BORN of a WOMAN, BORN UNDER THE LAW and “was CURSED” when he hung on a TREE....<--Only deceivers would reject the word of God which states as much....”

THIS IS A CLEAR DECLARATION BY DCON THAT JESUS WAS “CURSED”.

I DECLARE THAT OUR LORD JESUS IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, PURE, HOLY AND UNDEFILED. HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE AND THE WORD THAT BECAME FLESH.

SINCE WHEN HAS THE GOSPEL CHANGED?

... THAT IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH “JESUS IS LORD” …...AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. (rom 10:9)

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?” Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is THE SAME yesterday and today and forever.(heb 13:5-8)

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL JESUS “CURSED".

Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

 

[TruthTalk]

The bible is clear....they went out from us because THEY NEVER WERE OF US <----what part of this belies saved and then forfeited? NOTHING....NEVER WERE OF US is clear....

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction

The two events are tied together by the word AND......

Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt


I am sick and tired of this word being misapplied.....and then used to try and support the loss of salvation....the word and application of the word is tied directly to the man of sin and him declaring himself as GOD......the word itself MUST be understood within this context and is applicable to the REVOLT that HE will lead AGAINST GOD and those that are SIDED with HIM in this revolt..........ALL other considerations DO NOT FIT this context......it is NOT about SAVED MEN losing salvation, it is about the gathering of the LOST who will not receive the love of the truth under the banner of the BEAST and his REVOLT against GOD........

Hi decon, I saw a post on here but I forgot where; it said, "works are required, but not for salvation." isn't that mixing works with Grace, or am I misunderstanding something. It is by "Grace Alone" whereby we are saved; works are prepared beforehand by God that we should walk in them... "apart from salvation", right.

Again if I say to you, "works are required, but not for salvation", isn't that double talk, really help me out here please....