Are women allowed to Preach?

[Ralph-]

No...I won't live with it but will instead keep proclaiming liberty to those He died for. Live with it.

Liberty to rebel against what God has ordained is not liberty.

 

[Mem]

If phoebe serves in the word, you are right. But nowhere is written as what she is serving and what she is doing in detail. To say, she was a preacher is only an assumption, without any biblical base. And for an proof that woman is allowed to preach/ teach in the sunday service you really cant count it.

Okay, so then, I get that IF I can count on this particular word, then I am right... What I'm not getting is... when can I not count on it as not saying that Phoebe serves in the word

 

[Ralph-]

Yes, I agree we do not nullify the law. He causes us to obey it, not disobey it. But it is through the obedience of trust that we come to be lawabiding. Not through obedience to law ( and certainly not to any Law of Paul men insist on).

Obedience to the law itself won't change you. That we know. But that hardly means you don't have to stop committing adultery, viewing porn, or whatever it is that you are doing that is in violation of the law of God, in order to realize God's grace in obedience.

Don't expect to get delivered from porn (fornication/adultery), for example, if you aren't going to shut the computer/TV off. That's not 'law'. That's not you trying to change yourself, or save yourself. Besides keeping you out of trouble, that is you posturing yourself so God can deliver you from your sinful habits.

Don't wait around for God to 'cause' you to not be disobedient. Until you have God's grace in a changed character you have the responsibility to restrain your ungodly, unlawful behavior. You can't commit adultery and come home and say, "well honey, it would have been 'law' if I tried to stop myself from sleeping with that person. Maybe next time God will cause me to not do that. Now, what's for supper?"

 

[Waggles]

According to God - NO
it really is that simple

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

If a woman were to preach, exactly what commandment would she be breaking? If it's not a sin than what's the problem?

She would be breaking The Law of Paul. Pay attention!
Do they need to teach YOU the law too??

 

[loyaldisciple]

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Just curious as to what part of my post you disagree with.

All the parts that threaten his position and authority, just like when Jesus was on earth in human form.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Um...yeah, I think I do understand what they said regarding submission. It is not for their sake that we submit to our government. It is out of love to God and trust of Him that we do it, because we know He sets rulers in their place and takes rulers out of their place. (Not that we submit if they tell us, for instance, stop preaching in this name).

But as for those in authority over us as regards believers, no manor woman just submits in any old church they walk into. In fact, ralph has just said he has refused to submit to any pastor in a church and does not go to one because he has not found one where he could submit. He bases it on their teaching and so do I. If their teaching is love and not to control with law, I submit out of love.

I never mentioned authority nor did I say a thing about submission to authority in church

I'll leave it at that...too much rabbit holing for me

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Obedience to the law itself won't change you. That we know. But that hardly means you don't have to stop committing adultery, viewing porn, or whatever it is that you are doing that is in violation of the law of God, in order to realize God's grace in obedience.

Don't expect to get delivered from porn (fornication/adultery), for example, if you aren't going to shut the computer/TV off. That's not 'law'. That's not you trying to change yourself, or save yourself. Besides keeping you out of trouble, that is you posturing yourself so God can deliver you from your sinful habits.

Don't wait around for God to 'cause' you to not be disobedient. Until you have God's grace in a changed character you have the responsibility to restrain your ungodly, unlawful behavior. You can't commit adultery and come home and say, "well honey, it would have been 'law' if I tried to stop myself from sleeping with that person. Maybe next time God will cause me to not do that. Now, what's for supper?"

You have just said this: obedience to the law won't change you, but that hardly means you don't have to obey it.

What you should have said is this: obedience to the law won't change you. The obedience of trust (faith) is what's necessary if you are ever to be lawabiding because whatever is not of trust (faith) is sin.

You are a lawyer ralph. That won't help anyone in the building up of their trust (faith).

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Ralph:

Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed

well keep in mind I am from the far North haha...missed snow this year...but not the slush and rain part



I love snow.

love watching it fall especially at night...you go and stand out in that and look up...another world! yup

Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed

...I am more of a mountains and lakes kind of person...



I lived in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan for a couple of years when I was in the Air Force. Grew up in Northern Indiana and southern Michigan. Love the north. Don't like bears, though. Or forest fires.

huh...my husband was from Michigan originally....I much prefer northern forests to here...bears on one animal I am afraid of...when we were out in Glacier National Park, springtime, we went down some paths but I was really uneasy about it...bears coming of hibernation and all...I admire them though...they are pretty neat creatures when not up close and personal

Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed

we are here for a few reasons



God has his reasons for punishing people, lol.

fire ants...the war is on...

Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed

about Trudeau...I think he thinks he is a world stage leader of some kind...def a one worlder



Definitely.

check

Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed

if the church model changes, it will most likely be because it HAS to



Yep.

I keep wondering if open persecution and the coming economic apocalypse/ civil unrest is what is going to do that. In a weird kind of way I hope so. Can you imagine a church humbled and dependent on God and actually hungry for God in Western culture? The church would be transformed.

well as a whole...but God can still keep it real for many of us...but going through the motions has never appealed to me anyway

sometimes the way some people talk about all the things God supposedly wants to 'give us' .....like Jesus died so we can have it all...I will bring up countries where Christians are persecuted...has no effect...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

No. God has no "authority structure according to the flesh." No.

 

[loyaldisciple]

If anyone feels they have been spiritually abused or bullied by a religious person, group, or organization, there are resources you can contact to help you overcome the oppression and pain. There are crisis centers which will help you heal from ritualistic brainwashing, use of the Bible to humiliate and condemn you, and constant attack on your personal beliefs.

Any person or group of persons who assume the role of spiritual authoritarian (members of clergy, online religious commentators, etc.) in your life who makes you feel they are official mediator between you and God is a spiritual abuser. Anyone who continues to shame you with the Bible, neglects your beliefs, and behaves as though they alone have the knowledge to interpret the scriptures is a spiritual abuser.

It is NOT God’s will for His people to be humiliated, shamed, denigrated, manipulated, or violated by those who claim they have the right to exercise spiritual authority over you.

You can find several crisis centers, which will offer you information on how and where to get help. Just Google “spiritual religious abuse help”. If you need additional help, pm me and I will help you find resources.

The words of the Bible, spoken exactly as written, cannot be used to humiliate, condemn nor shame anyone ... Those words can only be used to reveal the truth which God has spoken unto all of us ...

 

[SpoonJuly]

An open Bible study with a hundred, or hundreds of people sharing with each other, building each other up doesn't work. It doesn't work because it can't happen.

So when Jesus taught the multitude, it didn't work.

There is a time for Bible study where all share and then there is a time for a man called by God to preach the Word.
That is what happens in the church I am a member of. We have small groups that gather and study together and then we have a God called preacher teach the whole group.

If you are eliminating the preaching of the Word, you are missing a blessing.

For you to judge local churches as cold and dead when you have not attended those churches is just stupid.
Many may be, but not all.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Liberty to rebel against what God has ordained is not liberty.

Unstable men twisting what Paul has said is not scripture.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Well, I guess when those 120 were in that upper room, they were doing it wrong.
What about the 5000 that Jesus taught and fed?

It is not the size of the assembly that is important, but what is being taught.

right

one word:

megachurches

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Obedience to the law itself won't change you. That we know. But that hardly means you don't have to stop committing adultery, viewing porn, or whatever it is that you are doing that is in violation of the law of God, in order to realize God's grace in obedience.

Don't expect to get delivered from porn (fornication/adultery), for example, if you aren't going to shut the computer/TV off. That's not 'law'. That's not you trying to change yourself, or save yourself. Besides keeping you out of trouble, that is you posturing yourself so God can deliver you from your sinful habits.

Don't wait around for God to 'cause' you to not be disobedient. Until you have God's grace in a changed character you have the responsibility to restrain your ungodly, unlawful behavior. You can't commit adultery and come home and say, "well honey, it would have been 'law' if I tried to stop myself from sleeping with that person. Maybe next time God will cause me to not do that. Now, what's for supper?"

LOL...are you sure? LOL~

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

No. God has no "authority structure according to the flesh." No.

Sorry, this was a response to matts post.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

So when Jesus taught the multitude, it didn't work.

There is a time for Bible study where all share and then there is a time for a man called by God to preach the Word.
That is what happens in the church I am a member of. We have small groups that gather and study together and then we have a God called preacher teach the whole group.

If you are eliminating the preaching of the Word, you are missing a blessing.

For you to judge local churches as cold and dead when you have not attended those churches is just stupid.
Many may be, but not all.

I looked around

Jesus left and sent the Holy Spirit and the only so called preachers I see holding sway in ginormous 'churches' are preaching to itching ears

so stone me already...

you know, I'm the one Ralph had the original conversation with and we seemed to have understood each other

I see what you are saying, but that was never a part of what I was saying

I did, actually, mention what you are calling 'small groups'

and why do we have small groups? cause the ginormous churches are too ginormous for intimacy and getting to know other people and praying with them and fellowshipping with them

I think you are riding a personal hobby horse that is going in the wrong direction

yeah sure we read about Jesus speaking to 1000's of NAMELESS AND FACELESS people

but it is the PERSONAL encounters we learn from

 

[loyaldisciple]

Unstable men twisting what Paul has said is not scripture.

Using the "exact" words of the Bible is NOT twisting anything ... It is repeating what is true ... Refuting those words in any way, shape or form is what is known as "twisting" ...

 

[SpoonJuly]

I looked around

Jesus left and sent the Holy Spirit and the only so called preachers I see holding sway in ginormous 'churches' are preaching to itching ears

so stone me already...

you know, I'm the one Ralph had the original conversation with and we seemed to have understood each other

I see what you are saying, but that was never a part of what I was saying

I did, actually, mention what you are calling 'small groups'

and why do we have small groups? cause the ginormous churches are too ginormous for intimacy and getting to know other people and praying with them and fellowshipping with them

I think you are riding a personal hobby horse that is going in the wrong direction

yeah sure we read about Jesus speaking to 1000's of NAMELESS AND FACELESS people

but it is the PERSONAL encounters we learn from

I am not into mega churches. Those I have read about or seen are nothing more than a religious club, not a church.
My point is that we should never judge or condemn those who meet in large groups and hear a man teach, as Jesus taught, as being cold and indifferent unless you have been there in that particular group.
The local church I am a member of has an average of 80 in attendance. We all know each other. We are neighbors.
As I said, there is a time for small groups and a time for all to sit a learn.
Don't judge based on numbers, but on what is taught.