Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

[Nehemiah6]

My understanding of this is that, because Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise" and since after he died He had not yet ascended to the Father, I believe that when He told the man crucified next to him that he would be with him in paradise, that he was referring to their spirits going to the same place where Abraham, Lazarus and the rest of the OT saints were, which was referred to by Abraham as a place of comfort, i.e. paradise and was also under the earth. Therefore, because Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise" that is the only place that their spirits could have gone. In support of this, remember that Jesus on the morning of the resurrection, Jesus told Mary not to hold on to him because he had not yet ascended to the Father.

That has always been my conclusion anyway.

While it is true that Jesus told that converted thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise", we cannot really conclude that Paradise was in fact in the heart of the earth. But we can certainly conclude that it was said in anticipation of all the righteous dead being in Paradise without the shadow of a doubt (after the resurrection of Christ).

There are 66 references to Sheol/Hades in the OT, and not one of them connects Paradise to this abode of the dead. However, every mention of Paradise (Eden) after the Fall in the OT/NT connects it to Heaven and the New Jerusalem. Therefore it is highly unlike that Paradise itself (with the Tree of Life) was first placed in Sheol and then transferred to the New Jerusalem.

 

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In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

The interview between Scalfari and the Pope was published March 28, 2018 in La Repubblica. The relevant section on Hell was translated by the highly respected web log, Rorate Caeli.

The interview is headlined, "The Pope: It is an honor to be called revolutionary." (Il Papa: “È un onore essere chiamato rivoluzionario.")

Scalfari says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

Full Article: https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/pope-francis-there-no-hell

I guess the deceived catholic masses must now reaffirm the infallibility of the popes and declare that the popes of the past who declared Hell to be real where infallibly correct when they declared it and this now pope being in the line of succession of the papacy is also infallible when he declares that hell does not exist....

Seems true devout catholics are in a big bind... Hell exists and Hell does not exist at the same time... One has to admire the level of faith that is required for a catholic to believe that both teachings are infallibly true at the same time..

I praise the LORD indeed for liberating me from this evil religion by the power of His WORD...

 

[Didymous]

Well, I see this is supposed to be about hell, but to take a small rabbit trail, about Pope Francis.

So in Canada, for 100s of years, till 1996, in fact, we had residential schools. These schools were run by various church denominations, with the purpose of “civilizing” and educating native children. A noble goal! Except, 2/3rds of them were run by the Catholic Church, and there were horrible abuses, including the usual sordid child abuse, sexual abuse, to say nothing of punishments for speaking their native tongues, and many children who died running away, trying to get back to their parents on the reserves, 100s of miles away.

So, now the Canadian government is trying to right the wrongs, (and, of course, with the Catholic Church involved, there were a LOT of wrongs) which is impossible, but I digress. For years they had these reconciliation and truth (?) meetings and in the end a document was produced with things that needed to be done, to make this whole issue right.

One of the important recommendations was that the Catholic Church apologize for what it did. So, Trudeau went to visit this very liberal, left wing pope, and ask him to apologize. Sounds like a great leftist cause for the pope, right?

Nope! He categorically refused to apologize for those wrongs. End of story! Trudeau has his mouth hanging open in shock, which is pretty easy for him, anytime, and one item on the list the indigenous people of Canada apparently need, will never happen.

Now, I am not saying I agree with this recommendation, necessarily! I just find it ironical that the pope who is all about “truth and reconciliation” will not acknowledge or apologize for literally 100s of years of child abuse!

Yeah, most Natives know that, and don't expect any apologies from anyone. A lot think they could heal if they got apologies though. I got mine from Jesus.

 

[Didymous]

I guess the deceived catholic masses must now reaffirm the infallibility of the popes and declare that the popes of the past who declared Hell to be real where infallibly correct when they declared it and this now pope being in the line of succession of the papacy is also infallible when he declares that hell does not exist....

Seems true devout catholics are in a big bind... Hell exists and Hell does not exist at the same time... One has to admire the level of faith that is required for a catholic to believe that both teachings are infallibly true at the same time..

I praise the LORD indeed for liberating me from this evil religion by the power of His WORD...

I've got it! Hell still exists for all the protestant denominations, but not for Catholics!! That must be it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I've got it! Hell still exists for all the protestant denominations, but not for Catholics!! That must be it.

No that's not it. The Catechism of the Catholic Church presents Hell as being real, and more or less follows Scripture. So Pope Francis is teaching heresy according to Catholic conservatives and should be removed from office.

IV. Hell
1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."[SUP]610[/SUP] Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.[SUP]611[/SUP] To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.[SUP]612[/SUP] Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"[SUP]613[/SUP] and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"[SUP]614[/SUP]

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."[SUP]615[/SUP] The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."[SUP]616[/SUP]

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."[SUP]617[/SUP]

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;[SUP]618[/SUP] for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":[SUP]619[/SUP]

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.[SUP]620[/SUP]

 

[Katy-follower]

Not sure if anyone else saw this.

The pope said that a personal relationship with Jesus is "dangerous and harmful" and "absurd dichotomies".

Interesting isn't it that in their catechism they claim that muslims are part of the church (841), despite not believing in Jesus for salvation, and they contradict themselves as in (846) they say there's no salvation outside of the catholic church.

841 The (catholic) Church's relationship with the Muslims."The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]

Here....

[video=youtube;adG93Ld-61I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adG93Ld-61I[/video]

 

[CS1]

Not sure if anyone else saw this.

The pope said that a personal relationship with Jesus is "dangerous and harmful" and "absurd dichotomies".

Interesting isn't it that in their catechism they claim that muslims are part of the church (841), despite not believing in Jesus for salvation, and they contradict themselves as in (846) they say there's no salvation outside of the catholic church.

841 The (catholic) Church's relationship with the Muslims."The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]

Here....

[video=youtube;adG93Ld-61I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adG93Ld-61I[/video]

if the context of the message is "Christians are a part of the " Church " and have to be I say amen the Pope is right. So say you have a personal relationship with Christ and not the "church" which is his Body , I agree that is wrong thinking. many say I do not need church well we do. we are told to Foresake NOT the coming together and do so even more as t the Lord Returns is approciaing . NOW I will say I did not here the Pope mention the Church to be the cathloic only either. I'm sure he thinks that. I'm not a fan of the pope however, i am not going to read into his message things he did not say.

 

[Katy-follower]

if the context of the message is "Christians are a part of the " Church " and have to be I say amen the Pope is right. So say you have a personal relationship with Christ and not the "church" which is his Body , I agree that is wrong thinking. many say I do not need church well we do. we are told to Foresake NOT the coming together and do so even more as t the Lord Returns is approciaing . NOW I will say I did not here the Pope mention the Church to be the cathloic only either. I'm sure he thinks that. I'm not a fan of the pope however, i am not going to read into his message things he did not say.

Sorry CS1, should have been more clear. In catholicism when they say "church" they are referring to the catholic church, rather than the biblical truth, which is that believers with the Holy Spirit are the church. They say you must be part of the (catholic) church to be saved, when the truth is that we are saved and then we become part of the church. They have it backwards.

Whenever the pope uses that word "church" he is doing so as per the catholic teachings. In his speech he says "there are those who believe you can have a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside of the communion and mediation of the (catholic) church... these temptations are dangerous and harmful... they are absurd dichotomies"

Just one section from their catechism...

846: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Sorry CS1, should have been more clear. In catholicism when they say "church" they are referring to the catholic church...

Correct. And it is the Roman Catholic Church, in which the Pope is "the vicar of Christ" on earth. According to their dogma, there is no salvation outside the RCC. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."[SUP]267

[/SUP]The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."[SUP]268[/SUP]

 

[Didymous]

Man, they sure wasted a lot of paper to record a bunch of umbiblical nonsense. I could've used all that paper to write my memoirs.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Man, they sure wasted a lot of paper to record a bunch of umbiblical nonsense. I could've used all that paper to write my memoirs.

That's nothing. They have a whole library devoted to Canon Law.

 

[Katy-follower]

Correct. And it is the Roman Catholic Church, in which the Pope is "the vicar of Christ" on earth. According to their dogma, there is no salvation outside the RCC. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."[SUP]267

[/SUP]The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."[SUP]268[/SUP]

They do also have a contradiction (841) concerning the muslims...

 

[Didymous]

Pretty much all contradiction, I suppose.

 

[Katy-follower]

Pretty much all contradiction, I suppose.

Yes, the catechism contradicts the bible.... but also their own catechism contradicts itself, because (846) says salvation only through the catholic church, yet (841) says the muslims worship the same God with them.

 

[Katy-follower]

Pray for catholics!!

 

[Nehemiah6]

They do also have a contradiction (841) concerning the muslims...

Did contradictions every bother the RCC? They thrive on contradictions.

 

[Didymous]

I pray for them every day. But I pray for everybody every day.

 

[Pythons]

While it is true that Jesus told that converted thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise", we cannot really conclude that Paradise was in fact in the heart of the earth. But we can certainly conclude that it was said in anticipation of all the righteous dead being in Paradise without the shadow of a doubt (after the resurrection of Christ).

There are 66 references to Sheol/Hades in the OT, and not one of them connects Paradise to this abode of the dead. However, every mention of Paradise (Eden) after the Fall in the OT/NT connects it to Heaven and the New Jerusalem. Therefore it is highly unlike that Paradise itself (with the Tree of Life) was first placed in Sheol and then transferred to the New Jerusalem.

On that day that Christ and the thief died...
...The thief was WITH CHRIST, in paradise.

Hebrews 12,22

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,​

and​

to innumerable angels in festal gathering,​

and​

to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven,​

and​

to a judge who is God of all,​

and​

to the spirits of just men made perfect,​

and​

to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel​

.​

When Christians come together for worship they in actuality have come to the City of the Living God...
...Where they is said to be a "FESTIVE GATHERING", an "ASSEMBLY" of those in heaven NOW.
...in addition to innumerable angels & The Trinity are the "SPIRITS OF JUST MEN".

For adherents of Jehovah's Witness theology how can they conclude all except the Spirits of Men are conscious?
...That's what they are saying - that there is this big festive gathering and everyone is aware or awake.
...Except the spirits of people who were killed - they claim those spirits are sleeping and unaware of anything.

Goofy and unbiblical to be sure.

 

[Bladerunner]

Paradise was NEVER beneath the earth. Christ spoke in anticipation of all the righteous dead being in Paradise in the New Jerusalem the day He was resurrected. It was an accomplished fact before it actually occurred.

As to "Hell" increasing in size, that word is actually "Sheol" in Isa 5:14, which is the same as Hades. So it is Hades which metaphorically increases in size as more and more people enter Hades to await their final judgment. It is unfortunate that the KJV used "hell" for both regions.

[COLOR="#0000CD] Jesus tells us when He informs the Thief on the cross beside Him, that he (the thief) would be in Paradise with Him today.

Luke 23:43....[COLOR="#FF0000"]"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."[/COLOR]

In Mat 12:40..Jesus tells us that as Jonas was in the Belly of the Big Fish 'three days and three nights' so would he be in the heart of the Earth....
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

In acts 2:27..tells us that Jesus was in Hell but He would not stay there.
"Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Then in Eph 4:9,,Jesus tells us that as HE ascended, He also first descended..

(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?


eph 4:8 tells us that when He did Ascend He took captives with HIM, gifts to men. Took those out of Paradise (Abrams Bosom)

"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."

Because Jesus removed and took with him Paradise (Abram's Bosom) we see that Hell itself expanded.

Isa 5:14 "Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it."

And finally....Paul tells us that He was caught-up to Paradise in the 3rd Heaven.

2 cor 12: 2-4 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. ver. 3..And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth ver. 4...How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter"

Now we have established that Jesus took the thief with Him to Hell and Paradise (Abram's Bosom) and when He ascended, He (Jesus) took all of Paradise to Heaven with Him... Having extra room to accommodate future new residents, we see that Hell enlarged itself in anticipation of those who have not yet arrived.



[/COLOR]

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus tells us when He informs the Thief on the cross beside Him, that he (the thief) would be in Paradise with Him today.

I have already explained how that should be interpreted. You can check every reference to Sheol in the OT and you will not find a single mention of Paradise in that context. Paradise was taken up to Heaven directly and that is where we find the OT saints after the resurrection of Christ.