Not By Works

[gb9]

Poor God. so weak he can not know if we have real faith or not. He needs us to prove it.

I love when people humanize God. just proves they do not know him,

this is a big key- the attempt to humanize the Lord Almighty. they accuse us of easy believeism, but, we know and understand the true and deep and evil nature of sin ( what they call their " little mis-steps ), and we dare not say we are sinless, or we keep the law.

it's called the fear of God and His righteous judgements that are to some. and we get this- the wages sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this is a big key- the attempt to humanize the Lord Almighty. they accuse us of easy believeism, but, we know and understand the true and deep and evil nature of sin ( what they call their " little mis-steps ), and we dare not say we are sinless, or we keep the law.

it's called the fear of God and His righteous judgements that are to some. and we get this- the wages sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

they say they love God (the light) but whenever the light comes near, they attack it and try to shred it, because it exposes them and they do not like it.

 

[TruthTalk]

I went ahead and put Seohce on ignore. He never actually attempts to answer anything. He just pastes the same things over and over and over again. He's a time-waster.

Me too, the land of ignore where everything is peaceful and quiet, forever....

 

[Endoscopy]

Paul also wrote: "If Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about - but not before God." (Romans 4:2)

If our works, in any way, maintain/add to our salvation and must be performed, we have nullified the grace of God (Galatians 2:21) and those works become nothing but filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).

You cannot earn a free gift. You cannot retain a free gift by your efforts. If you do, it is no longer a gift.

It is a wage. (Romans 4:4)

Paul, whom you quoted to support what you are claiming, destroys it when he wrote:

"To the one who does not work, but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

If one must do works as proof they are indeed righteous, then, as I stated before, Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., "walk the walk" as you say, and would be hailed as authentic Christians.

John wrote, "Do NOT judge by appearances (as you do) but judge with right judgment." (John 7:24)

We judge one is a true Christian if they believe they are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus alone.

Belief is what saves, and once saved, they can never be lost, even if they fail to do works. (1 Corinthians 14-15).

Our works only justify us before men, and are the basis for rewards, or lack thereof, at the Judgment Seat of Christ. (Revelation 22:12, 2 Corinthians 5:9-10)

The point about works is they are evidence of our faith. Paul said he would show you his faith by his works.

The Bible states:
We are saved by grace through faith.
Faith produces works.
Faith without works is dead.

Therefore works is required for faith to be saving faith.

Refute this logic!!!

 

[TruthTalk]

If you have faith in those things you will do what those things tell you. If you have faith in self. you will always do what self wants.

Non of those will save you.

If you have faiht in CHRIST you will be saved before you do one work. and since your trust in is christ, You will do what he wants you to do. BECAUSE YOU TRUST HIM.

If you do not do what he says, you just prove YOU NEVER TRUSTED HIM TO BEGIN WITH.

Faith belief and trust, all are invisible attributes that can only be seen as an action; how do these attributes apply to our salvation which is by "Grace Alone." Question; are Faith, belief and trust all connected and are they all considered a work?

Faith in Action: Hebrews1:3

3) By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

 

[Studyman]

If you have faith in those things you will do what those things tell you. If you have faith in self. you will always do what self wants.

Non of those will save you.

If you have faiht in CHRIST you will be saved before you do one work. and since your trust in is christ, You will do what he wants you to do. BECAUSE YOU TRUST HIM.

If you do not do what he says, you just prove YOU NEVER TRUSTED HIM TO BEGIN WITH.

Thank You EG. That was my point.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

galatians 3


16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



____________



God is wonderful

 

[Budman]

The point about works is they are evidence of our faith. Paul said he would show you his faith by his works.

The Bible states:
We are saved by grace through faith.
Faith produces works.
Faith without works is dead.

Therefore works is required for faith to be saving faith.

Refute this logic!!!

Paul did. In my post you quoted but obviously didn't bother to read.

Again, if you claim "We are saved by faith AND..." or "We are saved by faith PLUS..." you have added a condition to the gift of salvation, which would make it a false gospel.

Also, the word "dead" in the Bible can also mean "unproductive". For something to be dead, it had to have been alive to begin with. If dead is how you are defining it, then the Christian can lose their salvation - and that also, is not biblical.

I keep asking you this and you keep avoiding it. But I'm going to ask you again:

Just how many works are required to prove one is saved?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

galatians 3


16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



____________



God is wonderful

galatians 2


16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


may God bless my brothers and sisters here with joy and peace and wisdom



and may He bless my neighbors with eyes to see and with
ears to hear

a new heart and quickened spirit

to be born again into our family

forever

 

[TruthTalk]

Paul did. In my post you quoted but obviously didn't bother to read.

Again, if you claim "We are saved by faith AND..." or "We are saved by faith PLUS..." you have added a condition to the gift of salvation, which would make it a false gospel.

Also, the word "dead" in the Bible can also mean "unproductive". For something to be dead, it had to have been alive to begin with. If dead is how you are defining it, then the Christian can lose their salvation - and that also, is not biblical.

I keep asking you this and you keep avoiding it. But I'm going to ask you again:

Just how many works are required to prove one is saved?

Zero works are required to prove you are saved. But why cannot some people say this?

Philippians1:6
6) being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[dcontroversal]

page got alot smaller also. easier to follow..lol

Amen.....tired of the lies and false accusations and walls of text out of context to support something the bible does not support....

 

[Budman]

Zero works are required to prove you are saved.

Amen, my friend. As I said before, if works were proof, the Catholics, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses would be the most righteous among us.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

romans 9

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10
10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans
Chapter 11

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

i pray you all can see what is being said here


anyways

that is it for me



have a great day everyone

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen, my friend. As I said before, if works were proof, the Catholics, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses would be the most righteous among us.

And like I have said 50 times...those who have believed have already done the works of the Heavenly Father. Faith alone is what saves a man eternally and places one into the vine as a born again child of God ......end of story!

 

[Budman]

And like I have said 50 times...those who have believed have already done the works of the Heavenly Father. Faith alone is what saves a man eternally and places one into the vine as a born again child of God ......end of story!

And like Jesus only had to say once:

"Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (John 6:28-29)

 

[BillG]

The point about works is they are evidence of our faith. Paul said he would show you his faith by his works.

The Bible states:
We are saved by grace through faith.
Faith produces works.
Faith without works is dead.

Therefore works is required for faith to be saving faith.

Refute this logic!!!

Paul said that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith belief and trust, all are invisible attributes that can only be seen as an action; how do these attributes apply to our salvation which is by "Grace Alone." Question; are Faith, belief and trust all connected and are they all considered a work?

Faith in Action: Hebrews1:3

3) By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

I never saw Jesus hang on a cross or resurrected Jesus

I did not see heaven.

I can not see eternal life.


Faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR, the evidence of things NOT SEEN
But I trust God when he says they happened and are real.

 

[Chester]

Zero works are required to prove you are saved. But why cannot some people say this?

Just as the Scripture says . . . "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. - James 2:18

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank You EG. That was my point.

well most, if not all, the people you are arguing with believe this.. why are you telling them they are wrong?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul did. In my post you quoted but obviously didn't bother to read.

Again, if you claim "We are saved by faith AND..." or "We are saved by faith PLUS..." you have added a condition to the gift of salvation, which would make it a false gospel.

Also, the word "dead" in the Bible can also mean "unproductive". For something to be dead, it had to have been alive to begin with. If dead is how you are defining it, then the Christian can lose their salvation - and that also, is not biblical.

I keep asking you this and you keep avoiding it. But I'm going to ask you again:

Just how many works are required to prove one is saved?

in adam all have died, Even though in Christ shall all be made alive.

Never saw it say in Christ plus our works.