GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Cee

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Not perfectly, of course, but Paul did say he was blameless according to the Law. He was blameless because of the sacrificial system, but he still needed the greater rest found in Christ. In fact none of the OT saints received what was promised, because we have a better promise and covenant in Christ. They all looked forward to our day.
 

prove-all

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May 16, 2014
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Can you provide a verse that Paul ask congregation to observe Saturday sabbath?
"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call
heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things
which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have
worshiped by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by
opposing his own beliefs that he taught to others.

Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. after Acts 13, Acts 26:7


-here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.

4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Romans 9:4


-the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory, belong to Israel.

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that
I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:


-No burnt offerings or sacrifices orginaly given, but to obey his voice.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


-no good standing with our Savior if you do not believe Moses and the prophets.


1. Paul was a Pharisee. A teacher of God's law. He continued to
call himself a Pharisee even after joining the church. (Acts 23:6)


Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees,
called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees.
I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."

2. Paul loved God's law. It was a delight to him.
(Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,

3. Paul called God's law holy.
(Romans 7:12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy,
righteous and good.

4. Paul knew that breaking God's law is the very definition of sin.
(1 John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.

5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.
(Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means!
Rather we uphold the law.

6. Paul often read from the scriptures on the sabbath (which is kept by the apostles 84
times in the book of Acts). And the only scriptures at that time was the old testament.

(Acts 17:2) As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue,
and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

7. Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses when he first joined the church.
(And ironically, he's still being accused today.)

(Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
or live according to our customs.

8. These accusations were shown to be false.

(Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

9. When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
and said he does live according to the law.

(Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
and written in the Prophets,

10. Paul said that those who refuse to submit to the law are "carnal minded"
and hostile to God.
(Romans 8:7-8) The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit
to God's law, nor can it do so. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

11. Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
after joining the church.
(Acts 18:21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that
cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


12. Paul often quoted from Moses's writings, and cited it as authority.
(1 Corinthians 9:9-10) Do I say this merely on human authority?
Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses:
“Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God
is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,
because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.

13. Paul claimed that ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,
and given through inspiration of God. He never singled out Moses' writings.
(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness,

14. Paul mentions that priests are still offering sacrifices to God
even after Christ's death on the cross.
(Hebrews 8:3-4) Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices,
and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.


If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests
who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.

15. The most well known teaching in Paul's letters is the one where he says
"you are not under law but under grace".
Millions of people quote this scripture, they almost always leave out the scripture
that immediately follows it. Watch what happens when you add the context....

(Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

16. Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were observing
God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are "a shadow of things to come".
Meaning they reveal future events, just like the passover foreshadowed Christ's
sacrifice on the cross.(Colossians 2:16-17)

17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
instead of faith in Jesus Christ.
(Galatians 2:16) Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith
in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by
faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.
(Galatians 4: 8-11) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those
who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God
—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish
to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months
and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.


- sorry but those weak and miserable forces where not Gods Holy convocations.


19. Paul understood that obedience to God's law is a natural result of salvation.
Once you become a true christian, God writes His law on your heart and mind,
and causes you to walk in them.(Hebrews 10:16)

(Hebrews 10:16) "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,
says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."


20. Paul's letters come with a warning label attached to them.
(2 Peter 3:16-17) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
matters.His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you
may not be carried away by [the error of the lawless] and fall from your secure position.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Should we Do what Paul did?

Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia,
and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and sat down.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles
besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.


-- here was A perfect chance to tell gential's not to follow the commandments,
but here he was teaching new gentials on the Sabbath, who never before keep it.


Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews
and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them,
persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.


Act 13:44 And the next Sabbath day came almost the whole city together
to hear the word of God.



-why not preach the next day, why wait a whole week before speaking.
Why did Paul not say "come back tomorow on sunday" ,
Because sunday worship is a man made tradation, that's why
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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hello, prove-all

imo, you didn't directly answer Jackson's question.

the issue isn't Did Paul keep the Sabbath

it's Did Paul tell the gentle congregations to keep it?

"Should we Do what Paul did?"

No. Paul lived "as under the law" to help convert those who are under the law (referring to observant Jews, i believe)
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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hello, prove-all

imo, you didn't directly answer Jackson's question.

the issue isn't Did Paul keep the Sabbath

it's Did Paul tell the gentle congregations to keep it?

"Should we Do what Paul did?"

No. Paul lived "as under the law" to help convert those who are under the law (referring to observant Jews, i believe)


The issue is Paul never said to keep sunday,
or never ever told new converts to keep sunday.


Not one verse in the bible says the Sabbath was unblessed.
not one verse in the bible does away with the Sabbath.
not one verse tells us to keep sunday, easter or christmas today
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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hello, prove-all

imo, you didn't directly answer Jackson's question.

the issue isn't Did Paul keep the Sabbath

it's Did Paul tell the gentle congregations to keep it?

"Should we Do what Paul did?"

No. Paul lived "as under the law" to help convert those who are under the law (referring to observant Jews, i believe)
The Jews where gone, the Gentiles besought teaching on the Sabbath day.
Paul did not correct this , but continued to teach new gentials on the Sabbath day.



Act 13:42 And when
the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles
besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
 
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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Not perfectly, of course, but Paul did say he was blameless according to the Law. He was blameless because of the sacrificial system, but he still needed the greater rest found in Christ. In fact none of the OT saints received what was promised, because we have a better promise and covenant in Christ. They all looked forward to our day.
Paul said he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Jesus said the Pharisees created their own Law. Not Zechariahs and Elizabeth, they followed God's Laws and were Blameless, they also know Jesus when He came. (Luke 1)

I'm not sure this one verse from Paul wipes out everything Jesus and the Prophets and Paul said about His former self, and the Pharisees.

Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

"As touching the Law, a Pharisee". "Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless."

I really can't agree that Paul is telling us he was "blameless" regarding God's Laws given all he spoke regarding the Pharisees. He followed their religion perfectly, but Not God's instructions. Had be obeyed God he would have known Jesus when He came as Jesus said.

Food for thought.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Paul said he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Jesus said the Pharisees created their own Law. Not Zechariahs and Elizabeth, they followed God's Laws and were Blameless, they also know Jesus when He came. (Luke 1)

I'm not sure this one verse from Paul wipes out everything Jesus and the Prophets and Paul said about His former self, and the Pharisees.

Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

"As touching the Law, a Pharisee". "Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless."

I really can't agree that Paul is telling us he was "blameless" regarding God's Laws given all he spoke regarding the Pharisees. He followed their religion perfectly, but Not God's instructions. Had be obeyed God he would have known Jesus when He came as Jesus said.

Food for thought.
And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
(1Ti 1:12-17 KJV)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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hello, prove-all

imo, you didn't directly answer Jackson's question.

the issue isn't Did Paul keep the Sabbath

it's Did Paul tell the gentle congregations to keep it?

"Should we Do what Paul did?"

No. Paul lived "as under the law" to help convert those who are under the law (referring to observant Jews, i believe)
Jesus we know honored His Father's 4th Commandment and it is written.

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

We know Paul, like Jesus, kept God's Sabbaths as well and He said:

1 Cor.4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

So it seems it would be prudent to study how they both walked, then imitate them. IMO.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
(1Ti 1:12-17 KJV)
Perfect PS.

Thank you. I had not considered that verse.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Blameless with regard to the righteousness according to the law may simply mean that for every sin, one has made the proper sacrifice the law required - rather than 'sinless perfectionism' error. It is clear however that Paul came to understand that such righteousness falls short of what God requires, as Christ teaches us in the sermon on the mount.

It seems quite stupid to assume he would say blameless with regard to the law if what he really meant was that he kept traditions but ignored Torah ((as I suspect some persons will assume, because it fits some people's narrative)). Paul was certainly not ignorant of Torah, howbeit until his eyes were opened he didn't know that blaspheming Christ is in fact blaspheming God, for example.
 
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LW97

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Apr 10, 2018
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This is the greatest commandment of Christ:
"[FONT=&quot]And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:31)[/FONT]
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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The issue is Paul never said to keep sunday,
or never ever told new converts to keep sunday.


Not one verse in the bible says the Sabbath was unblessed.
not one verse in the bible does away with the Sabbath.
not one verse tells us to keep sunday, easter or christmas today


"The issue is Paul never said to keep sunday,*
or never ever told new converts to keep sunday."

the question i asked
which i think is similar to what Jackson asked

is

Did Paul tell the gentle congregations to keep it?

sounds like the answer is No.

the closest thing i can find is Rejoice in the Lord always!
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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the closest thing i can find is Rejoice in the Lord always!

Well Jesus told us to 'keep the Passover observance,
then we are told to keep the feast of unleavened bread.


Man shall not live by bread alone" but every word of God"
that includes the Prophets words also.



"Think not I came to do away with the law",
next verse He says if you teach others that it was done away....


He that saith he abideth in him
ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 
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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Blameless with regard to the righteousness according to the law may mean that for every sin, one has made the proper sacrifice the law required. It is clear however that Paul came to understand that such righteousness falls short of what God requires, as Christ teaches us in the sermon on the mount.

It seems quite stupid to assume he would say blameless with regard to the law if what he really meant was that he kept traditions but ignored Torah. Paul was certainly not ignorant of Torah, howbeit until his eyes were opened he didn't know that blaspheming Christ is in fact blaspheming God, fo example.
My point is that almost every description of these preachers in the OT and in the NT tells us they corrupted God's Laws and had created a "vision of the own mind". Paul said they created their own righteousness and were disobedient to God.

But all the sudden "many" preach Paul does a 180 and by 1/2 of one sentence destroys every Word that Jesus and the Prophets spoke about the Pharisees.

Paul isn't saying this, you are.

I find it fascinating that you agree Paul and the Pharisees were deceived all these years while persecuting those who followed God's Commandments. (Prophets)

But you are somehow impervious to this deceit, even though you preach Paul's 1/2 sentence makes all Christ's Words regarding the Pharisees irrelevant.

I might add another Biblical fact.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

These knew Jesus when He came, Saul and the Pharisees did not know Jesus when He came.

I refuse to ignore all this evidence just to support some religious traditions.

Zechariahs didn't do this.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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"The issue is Paul never said to keep sunday,*
or never ever told new converts to keep sunday."

the question i asked
which i think is similar to what Jackson asked

is

Did Paul tell the gentle congregations to keep it?

sounds like the answer is No.

the closest thing i can find is Rejoice in the Lord always!
AMEN! TRUE!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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The Jews where gone, the Gentiles besought teaching on the Sabbath day.
Paul did not correct this , but continued to teach new gentials on the Sabbath day.



Act 13:42 And when
the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles
besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
before Paul brings the gospel, gentiles who sought the God of Israel would attend synagogue

so their work schedules etc were probably set up to meet on Saturday.

it doesn't actually say if they are actually believing the gospel yet, or if they want to hear more

imo, there's a strong implication that there was only one more meeting before unbelieving Jews broke it up

Acts 13: 44. The next Sabbath almost the whole city was gathered together to hear the word of God. 45. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with jealousy, and contradicted the things which were spoken by Paul, and blasphemed.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Jesus we know honored His Father's 4th Commandment and it is written.

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

We know Paul, like Jesus, kept God's Sabbaths as well and He said:

1 Cor.4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

So it seems it would be prudent to study how they both walked, then imitate them. IMO.
yes, Jesus kept all the laws

Galatians 4: 4. But when the fullness of the time came, God sent out his Son, born to a woman, born under the law

and Jesus taught his followers to follow it

he also said he had more things to say

and he said one thing during his ministry, another later on

Luke 22: 35. He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36. Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Well Jesus told us to 'keep the Passover observance,
then we are told to keep the feast of unleavened bread.


Man shall not live by bread alone" but every word of God"
that includes the Prophets words also.



"Think not I came to do away with the law",
next verse He says if you teach others that it was done away....


He that saith he abideth in him
ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
"Well Jesus told us to 'keep the Passover observance,
then we are told to keep the feast of unleavened bread."

I'm interested
where does Jesus say this?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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yes, Jesus kept all the laws

Galatians 4: 4. But when the fullness of the time came, God sent out his Son, born to a woman, born under the law

and Jesus taught his followers to follow it

he also said he had more things to say

and he said one thing during his ministry, another later on

Luke 22: 35. He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36. Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.
Your understand of this one scriptures does not make any the Word's of God void.

The scriptures don't say "Walk even as He walked" unless your ancient religious traditions direct you into an different path.