Are you talking about the body being raised to eternal life or eternal condemnation because those In CHRIST have already had their spirit made perfect?
When are faith and love completed or perfected?
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That depends on one's acceptance of the Gift of Faith through the HOLY SPIRIT. For it is GOD that works in us both to will an do HIS good pleasure. OUR (HIS) Faith will make us whole.
Jesus Christ was/is/will always be perfect. He is the Author (Beginning) and Finisher (End) of faith (Heb 12:2). That He came in the likeness of sinful flesh and that flesh had to undergo change by the power of God by way of the resurrection and ascension does not mean that Jesus Himself was not "perfect (complete) until He obeyed".
To understand the meaning of Heb 5:9 we have to understand that this section of Scripture speaks to Christ as the High Priest of the Tabernacle in the Heavenlies (of which the earthly tabernacle was a shadow/pattern).
So in vs 7-9 we read Who in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him That was able to save Him from death, and was heard in that He feared; though He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered; and being made perfect, He became the Author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.
The offering up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears relates to the heartfelt prayer of Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane, when He asked that the cup be removed. God was the only One Who could save Jesus from that awful, horrifying death. However, the answer to His prayer was "there is no other way". And Jesus' response was "Nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou wilt" (Matt 26:39).
The being made perfect relates to the resurrection of Jesus from the dead and His ascension into Heaven, where He entered into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us (Heb 9:24).
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ lived a perfect life, He was the perfect sacrifice, and by His one offering He has perfected forever them that are sanctified (Heb 10:14).
Because of His complete and perfect sacrifice for us, here is what we now have available to us:
Hebrews 10:
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works
So we see that the being made perfect of Heb 5:9 speaks to that which was wrought by God when He raised Jesus from the dead and further when our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ ascended into heaven.
Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead by the power of God; He ascended into heaven by the power of God; He now sits as our great High Priest and it is in Him that we now have boldness and access unto the throne of grace (Heb 4:15-16).
On earth JESUS was fully GOD and fully man and we know GOD Is perfect and If JESUS had not been perfect HE could not be the LAMB of GOD that took away the sins.
You would have to be talking about the flesh and not the Spirit.
There Is perfecting or renewing the mind after salvation but surely you must realize that JESUS Is GOD and has always been perfect In the Spirit and the flesh.
True. We have two natures. Romans 7:25 represents this:"[FONT="]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
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IMO both Paul and James are speaking or the “faith which is reckoned for righteousness” since they both quote Genesis 15: 6. James specifically states that Gen. 15: 6 is “fulfilled” (James 2: 23) when Abraham’s faith was working with his works (works of faith, Heb. 11: 17) and as a result of his works, faith was perfected (or completed). According to the Scriptures there are at least two levels of faith, the first level is recorded among other places in (John 12: 42, 43), these people believed but their faith was not approved by God because they did not confess His name before men (obey) and because they loved the approval of men more than the approval of God. They had a love- obedience problem, their faith was not perfected or completed.
Abraham was called and obeyed by faith when he 75 years old, he dwelt in the land of promise by faith for perhaps 10 years before we are given Gen. 15: 6. (Heb. 11: 8, 9) At the time Abraham believed in Gen. 15: 6, his faith was already approved by God as it was reckoned for righteousness.
Sometime later in Gen. 22: 1, God decided to test his faith by having him offer Isaac, we know the story. In Gen 22: 12 God, “Do not stretch out you hand against the lad, and do nothing to harm him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” Abraham’s faith was authenticated, perfected, fulfilled or completed by his obedience. This is further confirmed in verse 18 of that same chapter and James 20- 24..
God bless
Gods actions that works in with us to both will and do His good pleasure produce the good works he requires . It is the work of God that we can believe Him not seen
It was the new born again faith that worked with the work of Christ to give Abraham a imputed righteousness , nothing to do with Abraham everything to do with Christ. The unbelieving Jew attributed the faith of Christ to Abraham . Therefore blaspheming the holy name by which we are called hevenward
It is how we use the word faith and to whom do we accredit the work of faith as a labor of love to. That of God not seen or of men seen ?
I would offer it paraphrased using (purple in parenthesis) to give it a proper understanding, attributing the unseen work to the right person.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, (not of his own) when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how (Christ's ) faith wrought with his works (Christ's ), and by (Christ's ) works was (Christ's ) faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him (Abraham) for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. james 2:21-23
Abraham was justified by his own "work", or "corresponding act" of obedience.
God does not do the obeying for us.
The only way we are saved is by obedience: Obeying the Gospel.
The only way we demonstrate love is by obedience: Obeying what He says. Obeying His commandments.
The only people who are righteous, are those who practice righteousness.
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
Those who walk according to the Spirit, and obey the truth from the Spirit, will receive eternal life at the end of the Day.
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7
God will render to each person, on the Day of Judgement, according to what he has done, not according to what he has believed.
A deed is something we do; whether good or evil.
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
Those who do noy obey the truth, will receive the wrath of Almighty God.
- to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
It's up to each one of us to make the choice to obey, or not to obey.
JPT
Response:
And having been made perfect, He became to all those that obey Him the source of eternal salvation. (Heb. 5: 9) NASB
I agree that this verse is not implying in any way that Jesus was anything less than sinless. But there it is and we need to deal with it. In some sense Jesus became perfect, it may go against our grain but it is biblical. IMO it has to do with the work the Father appointed Him to do. When Jesus was dying upon the cross, at the end, he said, “It is finished”. He had completed the work the Father gave Him to do and it is in that sense of completion that we best understand the verse. Nevertheless there is a great lesson for us as he is our example and we are to follow Him.
“He became to all that obey Him the source of eternal salvation to all that obey Him.” This verse disturbs many because it rightly implies that there is something to be done beyond merely believing.
Yes, if we are righteous by faith in God we will do righteousness. Do we do that to be righteous based on our performance? Of course not! We obey Jesus to perfect or complete our faith. (James 2: 2: 23)
We are saved by grace through faith! But we are not saved by faith alone, we are saved by a perfected faith, a faith that works by love to do the things God requires. What does he require of us? If we believe, He requires us to call upon the name of the Lord (Acts 2: 21) through repentance and baptism in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin and we need to confess His name before men. It makes me cringe when people say that these are “our works” and we are trying to justify ourselves or that we are ignoring the finished work of Christ. Yes, I am aware that some misguided souls are doing that very thing. But these are the works of God, they are works of faith, not law or performance.
God bless us all.
Perfected
And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, (Heb. 5: 9)
but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: (1 John 2: 5)
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; (James 2: 22)
Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God. (John 12: 42, 43)
If Jesus, Himself, was perfected (in regard to the work, appointed by the Father) why would we think it strange that our love and faith might need to be perfected? He was perfected through suffering. (Heb. 2:10) He is the author and perfecter of faith. (Heb. 12: 2)
Our love is perfected by keeping His word, by obedience. (John 14: 15)
Our faith is perfected by our faith working with our works (of faith)
If folks believed in Christ but were not thereby approved, it is no wonder that faith needed to be perfected or completed by love and obedience.
God bless.
If we believe with all of our heart and have repented and have been baptized in the name of Christ, we have have been baptized into his death; we have been crucified with Him. (Rom. 6: 3-8) Our faith and love have been perfected. God bless.
Yes as the love of God worked in Job to give Job the patience and endurance to finish the work needed to continue to have a living unseen hope . We can see that faith working in Job to both will and do the good pleasure of God. The work of His faith the labor of his love. A imputed righteousness not of Job.
He makes our yoke easy, his power is perfected in our weakness. Again not of ourselves lest any man boast in false pride.
I understand now. Yes, you are right. I had never made that link before, That is deep and makes sense.