Not By Works

VCO · Apr 14, 2018

LW97 said:

BEING REMORSEFUL TO THE POINT OF REPENTANCE WILL, as long as YOU are WILLING to RECEIVE HIM AS LORD (MASTER), because you LOVE HIM. That kind of LOVE, comes from ONE PLACE:

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

GOD's LOVE gives us the ability to AGREE WITH HIM ABOUT OUR UTTER SINFULNESS, AND TO LOVE HIM BACK WITH OUR OBEDIENCE, I know no other means to SALVATION.

Most certainly memorizing the Apostles Creed WILL NOT SAVE YOU. When HE says to the MANY, who's only claim to SALVATION is a Memorized Creed that they intellectually acknowledge that is true:

Matthew 7:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

That is the personal, intimate relationship with OUR Loving LORD as MASTER. You see, by the way HE said: ‘I never knew you!', it takes that deeper relationship, than JUST ACKNOWLEDGING that the facts about Jesus Life are True.

VCO · Apr 14, 2018

VCO said:

LW97 That first sentence should read:

Explain how you think you have been born again?

LW97 · Apr 14, 2018

VCO said:

Why did he never knew them? Because they did not do the father's will. What is the father's will?

[FONT=&quot][h=1]John 6:39-40 King James Version (KJV)[/h][h=1][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.[/FONT]

[/FONT]
[/h][/FONT]

LW97 · Apr 14, 2018

VCO said:

BEING REMORSEFUL TO THE POINT OF REPENTANCE WILL, as long as YOU are WILLING to RECEIVE HIM AS LORD (MASTER), because you LOVE HIM. That kind of LOVE, comes from ONE PLACE:

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

GOD's LOVE gives us the ability to AGREE WITH HIM ABOUT OUR UTTER SINFULNESS, AND TO LOVE HIM BACK WITH OUR OBEDIENCE, I know no other means to SALVATION.

Most certainly memorizing the Apostles Creed WILL NOT SAVE YOU. When HE says to the MANY, who's only claim to SALVATION is a Memorized Creed that they intellectually acknowledge that is true:

Matthew 7:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

That is the personal, intimate relationship with OUR Loving LORD as MASTER. You see, by the way HE said: ‘I never knew you!', it takes that deeper relationship, than JUST ACKNOWLEDGING that the facts about Jesus Life are True.

We don't make Jesus Lord. He already is Lord. We also don't make him Saviour. He already is "the Saviour of the World" (John 4:42)

mailmandan · Apr 14, 2018

VCO said:

LW97 said:

You are both right.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

This personal relationship with the Lord begins the moment that we do the will of the Father by choosing to believe on the Son and receiving eternal life (John 6:40).

These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 did not do the will of the Father and Jesus NEVER knew them.

TruthTalk · Apr 14, 2018

mailmandan said:

Hi Mailmandan, I have been following the conversation as you are, but I'm trying to get the gist of the question being asked. Is VCO asking the question; "Explain how 'you think', you have been born again?" as in, "give the reason for the hope that you have.", Excellent question.

1Peter3:15
"But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"

LW97 · Apr 14, 2018

mailmandan said:

Correct, actually pretty everyone knows Christ in form of having theoretical knowledge. I don't know anybody who doesn't. I've believed in the death burial and resurrection since I was four. But it wasn't until 16 years later that I also knew he took away my sins.

dcontroversal · Apr 14, 2018

Anybody done enough works to gain, keep or embellish salvation today....NOPE....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us!

Endoscopy · Apr 14, 2018

VCO said:

You are deliberately disregarding the words of the creed. I defy you to find anything non Biblical in it. You also ignore the reason for its existence. I will try again using the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid). This is a well known acrynom for technical endeavors. I used it in electronics and software.
1. In the early church there was differences of opinion with many issues.
2. In the early church heresies almost took over the church.
3. There was a need to define the minimum beliefs to be a Christian.
4. The Roman Creed was the first attempt to define it.
5. The Roman Creed was taken from the great commission and dates to the 200s.
6. The Roman Creed was deemed insufficient.
7. The result was the Apostles Creed in the 300s.
8. Due to language differences and language changing over time it has been under constant changing to keep to the original intent.

Here is a different way of writing it.

What I believe

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord.
I believe Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
I believe Jesus was born of the virgin Mary.
I believe Jesus suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried.
I believe the third day he rose again from the dead.
I believe He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
I believe from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit.
I believe in the holy universal church
I believe in the communion of saints.
I believe in the forgiveness of sins.
I believe in the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.
Amen.
The Apostles Creed modified!

Where is there any non Biblical statement? Put up or shut up. I don't care about how you choose to be a Christian as long as you give others the same respect. I believe doctrinal statements like this as long as they are Biblical can help people understand the theology of the Bible.

I keep asking dcontroversal to list all verses on a topic. I ask this because it points out a failure of the Bible only concept. The Bible is the word of God but Bible helps especially like the systematic theology books help by pointing into the Bible. With a systematic theology book you can look up ALL verses on a particular subject. Impossible to do with just the Bible. Therein lies a problem. To understand any Biblical issue ALL verses in context on an issue must be read and understood. Dcontroversal has yet to tell me an answer to the dilemma of finding ALL verses on an issue with Bible only. I lay that challenge on you.

VCO · Apr 14, 2018

LW97 said:

My, you sure are vague.

Please do not think I am picking on you,
I want to see if you know this things, and if not,
I will disciple you, if you are willing.
Besides, it is good for all of us to go through the basics,
to encourage us and sharpen our swords.

Ephesians 6:11-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Put on the full armor of God so that you can stand against the tactics of the Devil.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is why you must take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having prepared everything, to take your stand.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand, therefore, with truth like a belt around your waist, righteousness like armor on your chest,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and your feet sandaled with readiness for the gospel of peace.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] In every situation take the shield of faith, and with it you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit,which is God’s word.

What do you think is the GOSPEL?

How do you know the Holy Spirit is in your Heart?

Do you know the difference between head knowledge and heart knowledge?

Besides Believing, what else does the Holy Spirit do for you?

VCO · Apr 15, 2018

LW97 said:

It is MORE than that, it is an inner personal LOVING Relationship with Jesus Christ, that they LACKED. Those who LOVE HIM, will lovingly obey HIM. He knew their names, but HE REALLY DID NOT KNOW THEM IN THAT INNER PERSONAL WAY.

VCO · Apr 15, 2018

Endoscopy said:

AND YOU HAVE RESPONDED TO ME THIS WAY:

So now you just make things up too. I never said most of what you just POSTED. This CREED that you want to cling to, is not something the APOSTLES THOUGHT UP. It comes from the Catholic Church, that was in Milan in 390 A.D. It is an based on Biblical History that is TRUE, in the revised edition.

So I HAVE STATED that reciting Biblical History DOES NOT SAVE YOU. I did not deliberately disregard it at all. BUT IT DOES NOT SAVE YOU. Do you not know, that the Head Knowledge about CHRIST's History, DOES NOT SAVE? It is HEART KNOWLEDGE OF HIM, BELIEVING THAT HE IS IN YOU, and THAT YOU ARE IN HIM SPIRITUALLY; and Confessing and Repenting of SIN that DOES SAVE. DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT Genuine BELIEF IS IN THE HEART, and NOT solely in the HEAD?

Acts 8:37 (HCSB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart you may.” And he replied, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”]

Romans 10:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:10-17 (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

SEE IT? It is with the HEART that SAVING FAITH will result in SALVATION.
NOT WITH A MEMORIZED so-called Apostles Creed.

NOW how about ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS, that YOU deliberately avoided.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 15, 2018

LW97 said:

True enough. But sinners do RECEIVE Christ as Lord and Savior, and that is probably what is meant by "making" Him Lord and Savior of your life.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. (John 1:12)

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Rev 3:20)

loyaldisciple · Apr 15, 2018

I hear a lot of discussion here about works, faith and the law. My belief on all of this:

The law was there to show us what sin was. And after breaking the law the wages of that sin was death. Then Jesus died upon the cross as payment for the sins of those who shall believe in him. So, God said there is now a new order to be under the wing of Christ as our Savior of which we shall believe, repent and be saved from the death of our sins. However, this is concerning how now to repent from our sins, but it does not say the commandments are now to be completely ignored. I believe we are still to follow God's commandments, only that now when we slip from that, then Christ is our Savior as opposed to previously the payment being death. I don't see God as giving us any free hand to simply do as we wish and disobey His previous commandments as it seems some people might believe. I believe God is saying to still follow His commandments, yet when one is broken then we now are to repent and look to Jesus as our Savior for committing sin. I think some are under the misconception that somehow now this abolishes God's commandments and I don't myself gather that from reading the scripture. I see God as telling us not to see the law as the almighty, but to still go by the commandments. I believe God is simply telling us that when the law is broken that if one believes in Jesus then they are forgiven. But not to just entirely disregard the law altogether.

ROM 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

ROM 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The way I read this is to keep the law and commandments and follow them for they are good. But when breaking a commandment it is sin just like before, but now the law of repentance has been changed to believing in Jesus which provides us forgiveness for our sin.

I think some are believing that now that Jesus is our Savior that we can now believe in Him and now that God does not expect for us to go by any of the old laws or commandments any longer and I just don't buy into that theory at all. Now, don't get me wrong and think that I believe all of the old laws concerning people being put to death for certain sins should still be followed, however I do believe some of the old laws still are expected to be followed. I believe that is why some were written in stone, while others were not. The ones written in stone, I believe were meant to be forever along with possibly some others as well which requires the use of discernment.

I will certainly agree that one cannot be saved by works alone. I believe that faith in Jesus must be obtained in order to be saved. But I also believe when that is obtained, then one will “want” to do good works and those good works will make entrance into heaven be that much greater.

MATTHEW 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

MATTHEW 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

MATTHEW 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Budman · Apr 15, 2018

Sorry, but you don't get to pick and choose which Laws must be obeyed and which ones aren't necessary. If you put yourself under the Law, you must obey all of it. And if you stumble at even one point, you are guilty of breaking all of it.

Paul said we are not under the Law at all - but under grace. (Galatians 5:18, Romans 10:4, Ephesians 2:15, Romans 3: 20, 27-28, Galatians 3:10-12, 23-25, 1 Corinthians 9:20, Romans 7:6)

LW97 · Apr 15, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

True enough. But sinners do RECEIVE Christ as Lord and Savior, and that is probably what is meant by "making" Him Lord and Savior of your life.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. (John 1:12)

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Rev 3:20)

Being saved and being in full assurance of salvation are two things

dcontroversal · Apr 15, 2018

Works do not save
Works do not keep saved
Works does not finish off salvation
Works do not top off salvation

FAITH and FAITH alone is what saves a man ETERNALLY
Faith and faith alone is what JUSTIFIES a man before GOD eternally
Faith and faith alone is what sanctifies a man positionally and eternally before God
Faith and faith alone is what SEALS a man by the Holy Spirit of God eternally
Faith and faith alone is what places one into the vine
Faith and faith alone is what leads to a person being born again of incorupptable seed

Any work, any fruit is the result of being in the vine
Any work, any fruit is the result of CHRIST in us by FAITH
Any work, any fruit is produced by Christ in us as a living sacrifice

Salvation is a FREE GIFT from GOD based upon GRACE through FAITH
Salvation is a PRESENT possession and is spoken of in ALL three tenses
Salvation is a present continuing condition based upon a past completed ACT
Salvation is not earned it is given FREELY
SALVATION is ETERNAL

ETERNAL and EVERLASTING MEANS exactly that....it does not mean temporal and or based UPON what we do or do not do

We are kept by the power of GOD
JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith HE BEGAN IN US
JESUS said he will NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US
Jesus said it is finished-->paid in full

Either JESUS is God, cannot lie and keeps his word or we are all doomed....

LW97 · Apr 15, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Works do not save
Works do not keep saved
Works does not finish off salvation
Works do not top off salvation

FAITH and FAITH alone is what saves a man ETERNALLY
Faith and faith alone is what JUSTIFIES a man before GOD eternally
Faith and faith alone is what sanctifies a man positionally and eternally before God
Faith and faith alone is what SEALS a man by the Holy Spirit of God eternally
Faith and faith alone is what places one into the vine
Faith and faith alone is what leads to a person being born again of incorupptable seed

Any work, any fruit is the result of being in the vine
Any work, any fruit is the result of CHRIST in us by FAITH
Any work, any fruit is produced by Christ in us as a living sacrifice

Salvation is a FREE GIFT from GOD based upon GRACE through FAITH
Salvation is a PRESENT possession and is spoken of in ALL three tenses
Salvation is a present continuing condition based upon a past completed ACT
Salvation is not earned it is given FREELY
SALVATION is ETERNAL

ETERNAL and EVERLASTING MEANS exactly that....it does not mean temporal and or based UPON what we do or do not do

We are kept by the power of GOD
JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith HE BEGAN IN US
JESUS said he will NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US
Jesus said it is finished-->paid in full

Either JESUS is God, cannot lie and keeps his word or we are all doomed....

Correct, even though a person who is not only truly saved, but also in full assurance will start to hate sin.

dcontroversal · Apr 15, 2018

LW97 said:

You could have stopped with Correct........those who are genuinely saved do have HOPE<---the expectation of something guaranteed (Hebrews 11) and Paul covers the rest with Romans......

LW97 · Apr 15, 2018

dcontroversal said:

I am saying that because there are many Christians who are truly saved, but are not very sure about it. And the more confidence you can have in your security, the better will your grace walk be

Not By Works

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