GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[Shamah]

"earlier we were talking about to the gentiles not to the gentiles."

Yes, in that case also it's the 12 (later 11) who go / don't go

"do you re work His entire doctrine when He tells a particular person to go buy something or to rent a room?"

no, i consider the possibility that Jesus may mediate instructions for different times and places

for me, the whole law is mediated this way

Galatians 5: 13. For you, brothers, were called for freedom. Only don't use your freedom for gain to the flesh, but through love be servants to one another. 14. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

I thought "Jesus fulfilled the Law"?

are you trying to be justified by works?

are you one of those lawyer pharisees DC is screamin bout?

lol just kidding loving is the proper way to walk, but we must do it according to what He says love is not our own version.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]





[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, “Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, “...On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]all” is word #G3650 - holos [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]- Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

i think it's clear that most of the passages that deal with gentile life are written by Paul

ok

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”[/FONT]



Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."

 

[Shamah]

i think it's clear that most of the passages that deal with gentile life are written by Paul

Sp do you beleive Yahshua/Jesus teachings are for you or only Paul?

 

[Studyman]

i think it's clear that most of the passages that deal with gentile life are written by Paul

If you believe this, Then why do you not listen to him?

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

And again.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, (Jews) and then to the Gentiles, (Just as Jesus promised in the Law and Prophets) that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

It was not a "different" message for Jew and Gentile but the same. It was not a different message than that of the Law and Prophets but the same.

Should I reject these and volumes of other scriptures just because you don't believe them?

 

[Endoscopy]

Indeed! The Ministry of reconciliation. We have been reconciled to GOD. No longer of the letter but of the Spirit! We through Christ are a Holy Nation; a particular people zealous of Good works through HIS indwelling power.

Through the Gospel we now keep the Sabbath as GOD did. We simply Rest from our own works. As is a direct comparison. So how doid GOD rest from HIS works. HE stop working on the Seventh Day. So we stop our working on the Seventh Day.

GOD is always at a Spiritual Rest as we are supposed to be in HIM now through Christ. GOD is always Spiritually working as we are supposed to be in HIM now through Christ. . He did not enter into a Spiritual Rest on the Seventh Day, HE ceased from work. The work of Creation. Because HE did HE memorialized it by blessing it and Sanctifying (setting it apart) it. Did HE do this for HIMSELF? NO. The Sabbath was made for man.

When was it Made? Day Seven of Creation.

I prefer to keep it simple. In electronics and software I used the acronym KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
1. Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets and the law will last until heaven and earth disappear
2. Breaking the law is sin.
3. The penalty of sin is death at judgement
4. Jesus was the Lamb of God for our sins if we accept Jesus as savior.
5. The only unforgivable sin is rejecting Jesus.
6. Distinctives of different Christian denominations are to agree to disagree.
7. This includes which day to set aside for God.

I have issues with almost all denominations but I recognize they are still Christians if they adhere to the Apostles Creed

 

[PS]

Indeed! The Ministry of reconciliation. We have been reconciled to GOD. No longer of the letter but of the Spirit! We through Christ are a Holy Nation; a particular people zealous of Good works through HIS indwelling power.

Through the Gospel we now keep the Sabbath as GOD did. We simply Rest from our own works. As is a direct comparison. So how doid GOD rest from HIS works. HE stop working on the Seventh Day. So we stop our working on the Seventh Day.

GOD is always at a Spiritual Rest as we are supposed to be in HIM now through Christ. GOD is always Spiritually working as we are supposed to be in HIM now through Christ. . He did not enter into a Spiritual Rest on the Seventh Day, HE ceased from work. The work of Creation. Because HE did HE memorialized it by blessing it and Sanctifying (setting it apart) it. Did HE do this for HIMSELF? NO. The Sabbath was made for man.

When was it Made? Day Seven of Creation.

The Jewish calendar states creation began 3761 BC. That is sheer bunkum.

"According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of Creation, placed at 3761 BC.[SUP][7][/SUP] The current (2017/2018) Hebrew year is 5778."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_6000

 

[lightbearer]

i was with you up till this part

"(that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above*"

to say that Jesus is the commandments is incorrect, imo

Romans 10:6-8 is a quote from Deut. 30:10-14. Paul paraphrased it so that they would look it up.Let's start in verse six of Deut. 30 so that it is clear that the Gospel was taught and available since Moses if not before.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

The fulfillment of this circumcision from GOD of Christ is stated in Deut 30:10-14. The readers of this letter would have been drawn to this passage from the beginning of the letter. For It is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."(Rom 2:28-29 KJV)

This GOD promised to do in Deut. 30:6. Which when he did, he then spoke the fulfilment of it in verses 10-14. Please take notice to the present tense.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.(Deut 30:10-14 KJV)

The LXX translation of this text adds "and in thy hand" to verse 14.

With the all the above text in mind please note that the phrases "HIS commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law" and "the Word" are being used synonymously. In this instance they are interchangeable. Also Please take notice that in Deut. 30 the Judgments are not mentioned.

With that being established let's take a look at Romans 10:6-8 now.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

So while the Israelis and Romans were reading this letter they would have been reading the Pentateuch and some of the other books from the Old Testament also. Actually with more regard. When they came to this verse they would of seen the similarities to Deut. and would have looked up the verses there and read them in parallel. In doing so would have tied everything together synonymously keeping everything in harmony to one another.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

And that my friends would include all the moral code in the Book of the Law and the Decalogue. Including the Sabbath.


With the above understanding of verses Rom. 10:6-8; when they read verse four they would have understood it as Christ in our hearts being the goal of the law for righteousness sake in the putting off the body of Sin through the indwelling of Christ. Not of the letter but of HIS Spirit.

As it is written, "And they two shall be one flesh". The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. As Jesus said, "HE doeth work"! No longer is the ministry of Ink on parchment and Tables of Stone. But the ministry is us through Christ; the word; the law in our hearts, minds, and mouths.

The New Covenant; For GOD has said I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. Not of the Letter, but of the Spirit. Not on Tables of Stone but on the Fleshy Tables of the Heart.

 

[lightbearer]

No, that's your perverted SDA gospel of salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

No it is proper exegesis.

Romans 10:6-8 is a quote from Deut. 30:10-14. Paul paraphrased it so that they would look it up. We will start in verse six of Deut. 30 so that it is clear that the Gospel was taught and available since Moses if not before.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

The fulfillment of this circumcision from GOD of Christ is stated in Deut 30:10-14. The readers of this letter would have been drawn to this passage from the beginning of the letter. For It is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."(Rom 2:28-29 KJV)

This GOD promised to do in Deut. 30:6. Which when he did, he then spoke the fulfilment of it in verses 10-14. Please take notice to the present tense.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.(Deut 30:10-14 KJV)

The LXX translation of this text adds "and in thy hand" to verse 14.

With the all the above text in mind please note that the phrases "HIS commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law" and "the Word" are being used synonymously. In this instance they are interchangeable. Also Please take notice that in Deut. 30 the Judgments are not mentioned.

With that being established let's take a look at Romans 10:6-8 now.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

So while the Israelis and Romans were reading this letter they would have been reading the Pentateuch and some of the other books from the Old Testament also. Actually with more regard. When they came to this verse they would of seen the similarities to Deut. and would have looked up the verses there and read them in parallel. In doing so would have tied everything together synonymously keeping everything in harmony to one another.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

And that my friends would include all the moral code in the Book of the Law and the Decalogue. Including the Sabbath.


With the above understanding of verses Rom. 10:6-8; when they read verse four they would have understood it as Christ in our hearts being the goal of the law for righteousness sake in the putting off the body of Sin through the indwelling of Christ. Not of the letter but of HIS Spirit.

As it is written, "And they two shall be one flesh". The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. As Jesus said, "HE doeth work"! No longer is the ministry of Ink on parchment and Tables of Stone. But the ministry is us through Christ; the word; the law in our hearts, minds, and mouths.

The New Covenant; For GOD has said I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. Not of the Letter, but of the Spirit. Not on Tables of Stone but on the Fleshy Tables of the Heart.

*Also see (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; Galatians 2:16; 3:10-14).

Galatians has 6 chapters.

Let's start in chapter one to what is to be understood.

Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

How are we delivered from this present evil world? By the indwelling Christ.

To reveal his Son in us, that we might preach him among the heathen; that they glorify God in us.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed into Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We are justified by believing into Jesus. As the Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. It is HIS Spirit; HIS FAITH that enables us will and do HIS good pleasure.

We are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us: and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave himself for us.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ. For we are one as THEY are. Christ in GOD. GOD in Christ and us in THEM that the world may believe that HE was sent. The new ministration. Not of the Letter and Tables of Stone. But of the Heart. Manifestly declared to be the Epistles of GOD!

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ.

But before faith came, (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ) we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.(The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ) But after that faith (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ) is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ) in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ (even we have believed into Jesus Christ). There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ)

For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ). For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ) which worketh by love.

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ) and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ)

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual (of the Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ) , restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ)

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit (The Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ) shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

But God forbid that we should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto us, and we unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. (of the Faith which we now live through Christ that is of Christ) For We are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us: and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave himself for us.

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

And What is this Faith to which PAul through Christ speaks?

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The Word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach. And that my friend is the GOSPEL. Christ in us the hope of Glory; GOD!

(Gal 1:4,16,24;2:20,16 3:2-3,11,23-28; 4:4-6,19;5:5-6, 14, 16-21,24-25, 6:1-2, 7-8,14-15; 2Co 3:3-5; Rom.10:6-8; Deut 30:6,10-14)

 

[Dan_473]

I thought "Jesus fulfilled the Law"?

are you trying to be justified by works?

are you one of those lawyer pharisees DC is screamin bout?

lol just kidding loving is the proper way to walk, but we must do it according to what He says love is not our own version.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]





[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, “Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, “...On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]all” is word #G3650 - holos [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]- Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete[/FONT]

to me Jesus fulfilled the law means that we no longer keep the law by having a rigid set of rules about how we act physically


"but we must do it according to what He says love is not our own version."

absolutely!
we walk by the spirit!

 

[Dan_473]

ok

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”[/FONT]



Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."

yes, Peter went to the gentiles too

yes, one law for both

the world of Corinth was much different than the one in Jerusalem

the situations i find myself in are much closer to the ones in Corinth and Athens

Athens, again we know what Paul said there
we don't know if Peter even went there

 

[Dan_473]

Sp do you beleive Yahshua/Jesus teachings are for you or only Paul?

no

what to do about meat from the temple of Apollo was not a question in Jerusalem, but it was in Corinth

what to do about yoga? that's more of a Corinth issue than a Jerusalem issue

 

[Dan_473]

If you believe this, Then why do you not listen to him?

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

And again.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, (Jews) and then to the Gentiles, (Just as Jesus promised in the Law and Prophets) that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

It was not a "different" message for Jew and Gentile but the same. It was not a different message than that of the Law and Prophets but the same.

Should I reject these and volumes of other scriptures just because you don't believe them?

i do believe all things*which are written in the law and in the prophets

 

[Dan_473]

Romans 10:6-8 is a quote from Deut. 30:10-14. Paul paraphrased it so that they would look it up.Let's start in verse six of Deut. 30 so that it is clear that the Gospel was taught and available since Moses if not before.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

The fulfillment of this circumcision from GOD of Christ is stated in Deut 30:10-14. The readers of this letter would have been drawn to this passage from the beginning of the letter. For It is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."(Rom 2:28-29 KJV)

This GOD promised to do in Deut. 30:6. Which when he did, he then spoke the fulfilment of it in verses 10-14. Please take notice to the present tense.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.(Deut 30:10-14 KJV)

The LXX translation of this text adds "and in thy hand" to verse 14.

With the all the above text in mind please note that the phrases "HIS commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law" and "the Word" are being used synonymously. In this instance they are interchangeable. Also Please take notice that in Deut. 30 the Judgments are not mentioned.

With that being established let's take a look at Romans 10:6-8 now.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

So while the Israelis and Romans were reading this letter they would have been reading the Pentateuch and some of the other books from the Old Testament also. Actually with more regard. When they came to this verse they would of seen the similarities to Deut. and would have looked up the verses there and read them in parallel. In doing so would have tied everything together synonymously keeping everything in harmony to one another.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

And that my friends would include all the moral code in the Book of the Law and the Decalogue. Including the Sabbath.


With the above understanding of verses Rom. 10:6-8; when they read verse four they would have understood it as Christ in our hearts being the goal of the law for righteousness sake in the putting off the body of Sin through the indwelling of Christ. Not of the letter but of HIS Spirit.

As it is written, "And they two shall be one flesh". The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. As Jesus said, "HE doeth work"! No longer is the ministry of Ink on parchment and Tables of Stone. But the ministry is us through Christ; the word; the law in our hearts, minds, and mouths.

The New Covenant; For GOD has said I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. Not of the Letter, but of the Spirit. Not on Tables of Stone but on the Fleshy Tables of the Heart.

"...the Gospel was taught and available since Moses if not before."

i disagree

i don't think this was taught at the time of moses


"He appeared to Peter. Then he appeared to the 12 apostles.*"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians15&version=NIRV

*Brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the good news I preached to you. You received it and have put your faith in it.*2*Because you believed the good news, you are saved. But you must hold firmly to the message I preached to you. If you don’t, you have believed it for nothing.

3*What I received I passed on to you. And it is the most important of all. Here is what it is. Christ died for our sins, just as Scripture said he would.*4*He was buried. He was raised from the dead on the third day, just as Scripture said he would be.*5*He appeared to Peter. Then he appeared to the 12 apostles.*

 

[TMS]

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.




Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Gal_3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

There must be two laws that Paul is talking about in his letters to the different churches because in some places he states that they are our guide and are spiritual and that we should keep them by faith but in other places we are told that the law ended at the cross.
Gal_3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal_3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal_3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.


There are laws today that we will keep by faith if the spirit of God dwells in us. We will naturally not kill or take the Lords name in vain because of the Spirit that dwells in us and that isn't to earn salvation but is a result of faith.

can this be the case with all 10 commandments, can i keep all of them by faith or through faith in Jesus? Do we divide this law and say i don't like the 4th command so that one doesn't apply? Wouldn't that be making void the law through faith.
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[mailmandan]

"...the Gospel was taught and available since Moses if not before."

i disagree

I disagree as well (Ephesians 3:1-9). You won't even find the word "Gospel" in the old testament. Just more SDA propaganda.

 

[posthuman]

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

notice that it is God who circumcises, not man -- and that the effective circumcision isn't physical, by human hands, but spiritual, by His own hand. in fact, Paul would later write to the believers in eastern europe, that submitting themselves to physical circumcision ((as people were trying to convince them to do)) was tantamount to blaspheming the gospel.

keep this context in mind and consider whether effective 'sabbath rest' comes from rigid physical observance by human hands, or whether His rest is entered into spiritually & accomplished by God's own hand?

would it similarly be effectively spitting on Christ's work to teach & demand gentiles who have come to faith to ritually keep sabbath days physically as a law, just as ritually keeping circumcision physically as a law is described as heresy?

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
(Galatians 4:9-11)​

notice Paul doesn't say "ye observe the wrong days" -- speaking by the Spirit he says "ye observe days" -- and calls it bondage ​maintaining in no uncertain terms that we are made free in Christ, and should put away the slave for the sake of freedom.

 

[Dan_473]

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.




Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Gal_3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

There must be two laws that Paul is talking about in his letters to the different churches because in some places he states that they are our guide and are spiritual and that we should keep them by faith but in other places we are told that the law ended at the cross.
Gal_3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal_3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal_3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.


There are laws today that we will keep by faith if the spirit of God dwells in us. We will naturally not kill or take the Lords name in vain because of the Spirit that dwells in us and that isn't to earn salvation but is a result of faith.

can this be the case with all 10 commandments, can i keep all of them by faith or through faith in Jesus? Do we divide this law and say i don't like the 4th command so that one doesn't apply? Wouldn't that be making void the law through faith.
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

"We will naturally not kill"

i think there are situations where i might kill while walking by the spirit

 

[PS]

The Jewish calendar states creation began 3761 BC. That is sheer bunkum.

"According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of Creation, placed at 3761 BC.[SUP][7][/SUP] The current (2017/2018) Hebrew year is 5778."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_6000

Considering the earth is billions of years old it would be hard to get the age of the earth right. However, with there only being seven days in a week, there was a 1 in 7 chance of getting the day right, but true to form, they got that wrong as well.

 

[Shamah]

Considering the earth is billions of years old it would be hard to get the age of the earth right. However, with there only being seven days in a week, there was a 1 in 7 chance of getting the day right, but true to form, they got that wrong as well.

According to the geneologies since Adam it is not "billions of years old" it is around 7,000 years old. The "billions" thing come from wildly inaccurate carbon dating, a farmer buried a cow and the scientist using carbon dating told him it was hundreds of thousands of years old, he said nope buried it last year...

 

[PS]

According to the geneologies since Adam it is not "billions of years old" it is around 7,000 years old. The "billions" thing come from wildly inaccurate carbon dating, a farmer buried a cow and the scientist using carbon dating told him it was hundreds of thousands of years old, he said nope buried it last year...

Read your Bible man, and you LB should be ashamed of yourself for 'liking' it.

Adam, Eve and family were living in the Bronze age. There were other people and other nations, they were building cities, making fire, playing musical instruments and working in brass and iron. These were advanced people not too far removed from ourselves. Human kind goes way, way back earlier than that.


Genesis chapter 4
"13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive (who was he hiding from if there weren't other people?) and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. (Other people+ death penalty for murder = a legal system, this was a sophisticated society.)

15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. (There were other people, he was not in isolation.)

16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD ( meaning they were pagans), and dwelt in the land of Nod (this was the Kenite tribe - Jewish Encyclopaedia) on the east of Eden. The father-in-law of Moses was from this tribe, but that was much later.

17And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. (Cain had a wife who wasn't his mother, they were building walled cities which is dating evidence, cities were built for people and walled cities, similar to Jericho, were built for defence against other people and other nations.)

18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.19And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. (They were tent dwellers, our ancestors were cave dwellers and they were farmers rather than their ancestors who were hunter gatherers.Cain was a farmer and Able was a shepherd)

21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. (Early man did not have sophisticated musical instruments, neither could they make fire.)

22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah. (Brass and iron, early man used stone tools, this is the bronze age.)