GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[mailmandan]

I didn't ask how to consume, I asked if you believed in the same Jesus who gave Abraham His Law?

You asked, "What good is His Bread if we don't consume it? What Law are you implying that Jesus gave Abraham? He was given commands, statutes and laws, but Abraham was not given the Mosaic Law.

 

[Ralph-]

Take the Council of Laodicea,
for example. In a.d. 363, the Catholic Church proclaimed that all those who did not keep
Sunday, but rather rested on Saturday, were “anathema”—cursed, or excommunicated
—from Christ.

Yes, the Catholics literally made it church law that you can not keep a 7th day Sabbath. It must be on the 1st day of the week. When I learned this it changed a lot for me. The church doesn't know church history. That's why they blindly argue for Sunday Sabbath.

I know it can be a hard hit on one's faith, but the truth is if people really understood how much their church traditions are just that, traditions, they'd begin to question everything, and then, hopefully, learn the real truth and not lose faith altogether.

That's what happened to me. I thought this is the way it is because this is the way God wants it to be. Not true at all. It's kind of a faith shakeup but I think all Christians need one.

Read your Bibles without the stain of man's indoctrinations and you'll see we're not very close at all to Biblical fellowship, worship, and service.

 

[Dan_473]

Not that you will accept this but I did a Word study years ago on the Word Blood. I studied the Greek and the Hebrew and printed every scripture which used the word to better understand it's meaning.

To paraphrase I found that Blood means generally life. And we are not to "consume" the "life" or lifestyle, or beliefs, doctrines or traditions of any man or beast.

But Jesus said:

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

So I took this to mean we are only to consume the "Life" lifestyle, doctrines, teachings, walk, of the Word which became Flesh, and no other.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (The Word which became Flesh) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Every time I order a steak this Word study comes to my mind.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Every Passover this Word study comes to my mind.

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Glory be to the Word which became Flesh who gave His Life, so I could live.

i think that's a great example of God writing his law on your heart

this law
The flesh with its life, its blood, you shall not eat.

is written on your heart


one thing we could discuss is whether the "in*remembrance of me" refers only to the yearly Passover or every time the Lord's Supper is celebrated

First, here is what people are telling me. When you come together as a church, you take sides. And in some ways I believe it.*19*Do you really think you need to take sides? You probably think God favors one side over the other!*20*So when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat.*21*As you eat, some of you go ahead and eat your own private meals. Because of this, one person stays hungry and another gets drunk.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians11&version=NIRV

 

[Dan_473]

A simple principle that has been covered..
We are not under the law - True, because Jesus took the penalty of the law for us,.
The law points out our sin, and sin = death. Jesus died for us, so we have been freed from the law.

The law points out our need of a saviour and Jesus says you are forgiven go and sin no more.

Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


If you are in dept and Jesus pays your bill for you, does that give you the right to get back in dept again? Because our dept was paid for by Jesus does not mean the law is made void. Out of love for Jesus we should aim to obey the law, If you love Jesus you will obey.

Do i need to quote all the verses.
1Co_15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Lev_19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Love is a summery of the 10 c.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.








Keeping the first four commandments is our way of loving God with all our heart and keeping the last 6 is our way of loving our neighbor as our-self.

"We are not under the law - True, because Jesus took the penalty of the law for us,."

as i read it, Under the law means

Obligated to do what the law says

as opposed to

Under the penalty of the law

 

[Dan_473]

This is why I stay out of mainstream religious franchises. If they could just get together and agree on the Word? Like those who were building the Tower of Babel. But they CAN'T. I find this Spiritual fact fascinating.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

This is a fascinating story. And perfectly relevant to your post IMO.

This was hard to see when I was part of todays religions, but having escaped their traditions it is as clear as a bell. I would advise everyone to "come out of her". the view is much different from the outside than from within.

This understanding makes the instruction not to drink Blood (Life, teachings, doctrines, etc) except the Blood of the Word which became Flesh especially relevant IMO.

"This is why I stay out of mainstream religious franchises."

what group of believers do you fellowship with?

 

[Dan_473]

Yes, the Catholics literally made it church law that you can not keep a 7th day Sabbath. It must be on the 1st day of the week. When I learned this it changed a lot for me. The church doesn't know church history. That's why they blindly argue for Sunday Sabbath.

I know it can be a hard hit on one's faith, but the truth is if people really understood how much their church traditions are just that, traditions, they'd begin to question everything, and then, hopefully, learn the real truth and not lose faith altogether.

That's what happened to me. I thought this is the way it is because this is the way God wants it to be. Not true at all. It's kind of a faith shakeup but I think all Christians need one.

Read your Bibles without the stain of man's indoctrinations and you'll see we're not very close at all to Biblical fellowship, worship, and service.

"Read your Bibles without the stain of man's indoctrinations and you'll see we're not very close at all to Biblical fellowship, worship, and service."

read the bible just by ourselves

all alone
in a vacuum, as it were

or also consider what other Christians have said at different times?


have regard for what early Christians thought
since they often spoke the same Greek the nt uses
no need for translation?

 

[Studyman]

You asked, "What good is His Bread if we don't consume it? What Law are you implying that Jesus gave Abraham? He was given commands, statutes and laws, but Abraham was not given the Mosaic Law.

I asked what Jesus you are talking about. Is it the same God that Gave Abraham HIS Law?

Whether the Same Gad that gave Abraham His Laws is the same God that Gave Moses His Laws is another topic.

When Jesus says "My Words" Last forever, do we limit that as just the Word's He spoke as a man?

 

[Studyman]

"This is why I stay out of mainstream religious franchises."

what group of believers do you fellowship with?

Is there more than one?

 

[gb9]

I asked what Jesus you are talking about. Is it the same God that Gave Abraham HIS Law?

Whether the Same Gad that gave Abraham His Laws is the same God that Gave Moses His Laws is another topic.

When Jesus says "My Words" Last forever, do we limit that as just the Word's He spoke as a man?

you still talking? after I proved your Satanist Pharisee theory completely wrong, by Jesus's own words, you still think your words and ( wrong ) opinions have any merit? you back for more? o.k..

when God told Moses in Deuteronomy 18 v. 15 that he will raise up a profit from among them, and Him they will hear, was God talking about raising himself up ? how does this verse fit into your oneness non-sense ??

 

[blue_ladybug]

Slight correction of word "profit". It's "prophet"..

you still talking? after I proved your Satanist Pharisee theory completely wrong, by Jesus's own words, you still think your words and ( wrong ) opinions have any merit? you back for more? o.k..

when God told Moses in Deuteronomy 18 v. 15 that he will raise up a profit from among them, and Him they will hear, was God talking about raising himself up ? how does this verse fit into your oneness non-sense ??

 

[gb9]

Slight correction of word "profit". It's "prophet"..

thanks blue. early in the morning here.

 

[blue_ladybug]

It's early here too.. but I have coffee.. LMBO

thanks blue. early in the morning here.

 

[Dan_473]

Is there more than one?

right, there's only one church

do you meet regularly with other believers in a particular physical location?

 

[mailmandan]

right, there's only one church

Yes, there is only one Church, which is the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) that is made up of all genuine born again believers/Christians who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Acts 10:43-47; Ephesians 1:13; 2:8,9).

 

[Dan_473]

Yes, there is only one Church, which is the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) that is made up of all genuine born again believers/Christians who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Acts 10:43-47; Ephesians 1:13; 2:8,9).

right on,

and i think healthy Believers like to fellowship with other believers regularly in local groups

sometimes a person will post here on CC criticizing the vast majority of these local fellowship groups

yet when asked about their local group they become evasive.

 

[Endoscopy]

Jesus is the Bread of Life. Just as bread nourishes our physical bodies, Jesus gives and sustains eternal life to all believers.

"I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:35) As Jesus was accustomed, He used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)

The literal interpretation is absurd, which leads to cannibalism and the drinking of blood contrary to the commandment of God. No eating of any flesh can give spiritual life. By faith we partake of Christ, and the benefits of His bodily sacrifice on the cross and the merits of His shed blood, receiving and enjoying eternal life. Eating and drinking is not with the mouth and the digestive organs of our bodies, but the reception of God’s grace by believing in Christ, as He makes abundantly clear by repeating the same truths both in metaphoric and plain language. Compare for example the following two verses:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life” (verse 47).

“He who eats this bread will live forever” (verse 58).

“He who believes” in Christ is equivalent to “he who eats this bread” because the result is the same, eternal life. The parallel is just as obvious in verses 40 and 54:

“Everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day” (verse 40).

“Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (verse 54).

John 6 does not afford any support to the false Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it is an emphatic statement on the primacy of faith as the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.

Since this is not part of the Apostles Creed it becomes an issue that we agree to disagree about. The particular belief anybody holds doesn't affect salvation! Being Reformed in my beliefs I use the symbolic concept. It makes no difference to me where others stand on this issue. I state my opinion and others can state theirs. We then agree to disagree!!!

 

[Endoscopy]

"This is why I stay out of mainstream religious franchises."

what group of believers do you fellowship with?

You need to understand all Biblical denominations disagree with each other on peripheral issues. The big thing to first understand about a particular church is do they preach the gospel!! I can attend any church that does that even if I disagree on peripheral issues. Since I am Reformed in my beliefs that means Reformed RCA, Presbyterian PCA, etc. When I was in South Africa I attended a Catholic Church. The Catholic Church there was much more informal than in the US. It was a gospel centered church. I could disagree with some distinctives and still worship God.

 

[Endoscopy]

Yes, there is only one Church, which is the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) that is made up of all genuine born again believers/Christians who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Acts 10:43-47; Ephesians 1:13; 2:8,9).

There is only one Church but many churches. Disagreements on peripheral issues just as in the early Church. That was the cause for the Apostles Creed to be created. It defines who is and isn't a Christian.

 

[PS]

right on,

and i think healthy Believers like to fellowship with other believers regularly in local groups

sometimes a person will post here on CC criticizing the vast majority of these local fellowship groups

yet when asked about their local group they become evasive.

Suggest Christians look to Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2).

Jesus is the Word made flesh who said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

Jesus is the I AM who spoke to Moses from the Burning Bush.

Jesus is the Good Shepherd of King David.

Jesus is the Light of the World.

Jesus said, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life:

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Rom 10:13)

 

[Dan_473]

You need to understand all Biblical denominations disagree with each other on peripheral issues. The big thing to first understand about a particular church is do they preach the gospel!! I can attend any church that does that even if I disagree on peripheral issues. Since I am Reformed in my beliefs that means Reformed RCA, Presbyterian PCA, etc. When I was in South Africa I attended a Catholic Church. The Catholic Church there was much more informal than in the US. It was a gospel centered church. I could disagree with some distinctives and still worship God.

yes, i understand that Biblical denominations often disagree with each other on peripheral issues.

i was wondering where someone who stays out of mainstream religious franchises worships and fellowships.