examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please

[Didymous]

There were only 12 speaking; not 120, and there were only two languages; not 16.

Most people assume its 120 individuals, but: Chapter one ends with the newly formed 12 apostles (i.e. the addition of Matthias to replace Judas). Chapter 2 begins with saying "...they were all with one accord in one place..." It's assumed that the "they" here refers to the 120, but the context goes back to the end of Chapter 1 and refers to the 12. Jesus' command in Chapter 1 concerning this event was to the apostles, not the 120.

There is other contextual "evidence" in Chapter 2 as well.

As concerns languages – the number most people come up with is due to a common misreading of the text. Take a closer look at Acts 2:9-11 – what do you notice? It’s not a list of languages, at all; it’s a list of nations and territories. Its inclusion is rather relevant, but more as a political statement than to demonstrate linguistic diversity. Part of the relevance of the list is that the places listed are specifically those lands and areas of the Jewish Diaspora (Cyprus and Syria are missing but that speaks to the purpose of the list’s inclusion into the narrative). Both the Western and Eastern Diaspora are represented.

So, what about the languages? Read the entire narrative again carefully. Did you notice anything? A few things may not be apparent at first, but they’re there.

First, if you read the entire narrative, not one language is ever referenced by name – not one. Why do you suppose that is?

Secondly, though there were Jews from ‘every nation under heaven’, nowhere in the entire narrative is it even remotely suggested that communication was ever an issue. Again, why do you suppose that is?

Lastly, at one point, Peter addresses the crowd – given the demographic make-up of the attendees, what language do you suppose he addressed them in?

In a nutshell, though you had Jews from all over the place, they only spoke two languages as their mother ‘tongues’: either Greek or Aramaic (depending on where they were from).

As it's too lengthy to post here in the forums, for a more in-depth look at the languages of Pentecost, see:

http://christianchat.com/blogs/kavik/12469-another-understanding-oetonguesa-pentecost-part-1.html

You're probably right about the number speaking, but as the Hornetguy noted you're completely wrong about the rest.

 

[Didymous]

OK as you all know better than God we'll leave you with
your unbelief.

Well, for whatever reason, I'm glad you chose not to continue to debate on this, for you truly have no ammunition. But most importantly, you state that anyone who doesn't speak in tongues isnt filled with the Holy Spirit, and the Bible nowhere teaches that-in spite of your twisting of the book of Acts. Foolishness like this hurts many young Christians who end up thinking they're second-class Christians because they don't jibber-jabber in some "heavenly" language.

 

[CS1]

Wrong. What's recorded in Acts is 120 people speaking 16 actual languages to Jews from the countries those 16 languages were spoken. So, unless you have a bunch of foreign Jews at your church-you're doing something else.

your wrong it was not 16 languages to the jews . the Bible does not say 16 . It states in Chapter 2 : 5

[FONT=&quot]And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Please look up the context of every nation. And the idea that only 16 languages were spoke ?" where did you come up with that?


Acts 2:9-11

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”


the scriptures show us many many languages were spoken. from nations, regions and areas what language was spoken in Egypt? you assume these location only have one language to communicate ? you are wrong according to these verses.

[/FONT]

 

[Didymous]

Ok then, tell us how many languages, according to the scriptures?

 

[CS1]

Ok then, tell us how many languages, according to the scriptures?

I posted the Bible does not give a number , nor does it say only 16 you assumed that I . and do not ask question if you are not willing to answer the one asked of you please.

1from every nation under heaven. how many languages under heaven 16 ?

2. dwelling in Mesopotamia, How many languages were in mesopotamia 16?

3. parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene How many in Libya & Cyrene 16?

16 Languages is not contextual unless you limit those reasons were we do know they had more then one lanaguage . Come on ? those who say it has to be an actually to be tongues ( and yes it is a real langauge ) limit the very context of the chapter because it will not fit the narritive .
According to Acts 2:5-11

it was not only 16 that is clear.

 

[Didymous]

Since neither of us was there, and there probably weren't any linguists back then, I'm not sure what your question even means. Regardless of how many languages were or weren't spoken, they were actual languages, agreed? And they were understood by Jews who lived where those languages were spoken, agreed?

 

[Kavik]

Partial quotes from Kavik...

I disagree completely with your premise.

Scripture clearly indicates that all of those regions spoke different languages, or at least different dialects. If all of those Jews present spoke the same language, there would be no astonishment and wonder that they all understood what was being said. It would have been taken for granted.

See the link that I have at the end of post #419 – a lengthier in-depth discussion on the languages at Pentecost. It speaks to the issues you mention above.

 

[notuptome]

I posted the Bible does not give a number , nor does it say only 16 you assumed that I . and do not ask question if you are not willing to answer the one asked of you please.

1from every nation under heaven. how many languages under heaven 16 ?

2. dwelling in Mesopotamia, How many languages were in mesopotamia 16?

3. parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene How many in Libya & Cyrene 16?

16 Languages is not contextual unless you limit those reasons were we do know they had more then one lanaguage . Come on ? those who say it has to be an actually to be tongues ( and yes it is a real langauge ) limit the very context of the chapter because it will not fit the narritive .
According to Acts 2:5-11

it was not only 16 that is clear.

Interesting that languages were heard at Pentecost and today we have so much disagreement over what is supposed to be a continuation of tongues.

Could it be that we have changed hearing to speaking and somewhere along the way lost the Holy Spirit?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Interesting that languages were heard at Pentecost and today we have so much disagreement over what is supposed to be a continuation of tongues.

Could it be that we have changed hearing to speaking and somewhere along the way lost the Holy Spirit?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No the problem is pride of those who are for it and against it. The word of God is clear in context the event recorded in Acts 2. Those who focus on the gift more then the out come of what the gift is to do is in error. Those who try to teach that the gift of tongues is not for today are in error too.

 

[Didymous]

Ive never believed one way or another about whether or not tongues is for today, I just haven't witnessed it used as recorded on the Bible. That's not to say that I believe it's not used biblically anywhere-just that I haven't seen it. As to unbiblical uses, yes, I've seen many examples of that, and usually by those who say that only those who speak in tongues have been filled with the Holy Spirit, or some of the other nonsense they say.

 

[CS1]

Since neither of us was there, and there probably weren't any linguists back then, I'm not sure what your question even means. Regardless of how many languages were or weren't spoken, they were actual languages, agreed? And they were understood by Jews who lived where those languages were spoken, agreed?

lol good try , the ole linguist mind jeti diversion trick. The context is as it is you cannot pull Mr. linguist out of the bag because you cannot speak against the context on this topic in the word of God found in Acts 2:5-11 . You know there were more than 16 languages.

And I did not need to be a doctor to prove the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ to know it happen , nor do I have to be well studied in oceanography to explain the crossing of the Red Sea, nor do I have to be an Archeologist to prove that Egypt was a real place. The Word of God told me that :

1. Jesus rose from the dead John 20, Luke 24, Mark 16, and Matt 27
2. Moses Crossed the Red Sea found in the book of Exodus
3. Joseph lived in Egypt Found in the book of Genesis

You try to discredit the context of Acts 2:5-11 by saying none of us were there or linguist “?
You are the one spoke and stated 16 languages . The Bible does not say that.

 

[CS1]

Interesting that languages were heard at Pentecost and today we have so much disagreement over what is supposed to be a continuation of tongues.

Could it be that we have changed hearing to speaking and somewhere along the way lost the Holy Spirit?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

maybe it was they spoke and they heard as Acts 2 states

 

[Didymous]

lol good try , the ole linguist mind jeti diversion trick. The context is as it is you cannot pull Mr. linguist out of the bag because you cannot speak against the context on this topic in the word of God found in Acts 2:5-11 . You know there were more than 16 languages.

And I did not need to be a doctor to prove the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ to know it happen , nor do I have to be well studied in oceanography to explain the crossing of the Red Sea, nor do I have to be an Archeologist to prove that Egypt was a real place. The Word of God told me that :

1. Jesus rose from the dead John 20, Luke 24, Mark 16, and Matt 27
2. Moses Crossed the Red Sea found in the book of Exodus
3. Joseph lived in Egypt Found in the book of Genesis

You try to discredit the context of Acts 2:5-11 by saying none of us were there or linguist “?
You are the one spoke and stated 16 languages . The Bible does not say that.

The Bible doesn't say Trinity either, or rapture-what's your point?

 

[Didymous]

The Bible doesn't say Trinity either, or rapture-what's your point?

I never tried to discredit the "context" of Acts 2:5, I merely disagree with what you said. Since neither of us can prove our stance one way or the other I guess you don't really have a point.

 

[CS1]

The Bible doesn't say Trinity either, or rapture-what's your point?

Ok the point sir, is
1. you were provided the context of Acts 2:5-11
2. you said "Since neither of us was there, and there probably weren't any linguists back then"

are you suggesting the information provided of the eye witnesses in Acts were not clear in what they have witness to? And I hope you know Luke was an Educated man. Your right the word Trinity is not in the word of God but the Concept is well seen.

Just as the vast amount of languages that were spoken and heard as Acts 2:5-11 states.

 

[hornetguy]

See the link that I have at the end of post #419 – a lengthier in-depth discussion on the languages at Pentecost. It speaks to the issues you mention above.

I didn't have time to read it in depth, but I scanned it, and pretty much disagree with his premise, as well. It's sort of like hearing a Kennedy assassination theory.... interesting, but it goes against the narrative.

If it takes "scholars" coming up with a "new theory" to explain what was rather clearly described in scripture, guess which one I'm going with?

I've read "scholars" that explained how Jesus walked on water.... a freak storm came up on the sea, and flash froze some of the water into floating slabs of ice. Jesus was riding on one of those, which gave the appearance of walking on water.




Look at a map of those days, and see the dispersion of people who were named as being there in Jerusalem. From way over by the Caspian sea, to way down in Egypt... and from an island in the Mediterranean....

And this guy's trying to explain how they all spoke the same language? Riiiiiight....

Maybe the aliens that built the pyramids acted as "mind-meld" interpreters....

Sorry, I'm just not buying into that theory. I'll go with what scripture says.

 

[Didymous]

your wrong it was not 16 languages to the jews . the Bible does not say 16 . It states in Chapter 2 : 5

[FONT=&quot]And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Please look up the context of every nation. And the idea that only 16 languages were spoke ?" where did you come up with that?


Acts 2:9-11

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”


the scriptures show us many many languages were spoken. from nations, regions and areas what language was spoken in Egypt? you assume these location only have one language to communicate ? you are wrong according to these verses.

[/FONT]

Sorry for the delay, sir. It took me a minute to find what you were actually asking. I assume 16 languages because 16 locations were mentioned. I assumed one language because most people can only hear one at a time. Maybe you think the people from these 16 places were hearing more than one language at a time?
Do you really think people from every nation under the sun means every place in the world? If people from my tribe were in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago, I think we'd have a story about that. If you can agree that all that we discuss is conjecture, and that some conjectures seem more likely than not-then we can be of one accord about things written that we didn't witness ourselves. Otherwise, it's just you trying to convince me that you're right and I'm not. The truth is, I don't know that I'm right, nor if you're right, but I guarantee you'll never convince me by pushing any unbiblical tongues beliefs on me.

 

[CS1]

I never tried to discredit the "context" of Acts 2:5, I merely disagree with what you said. Since neither of us can prove our stance one way or the other I guess you don't really have a point.

what did I say ? the context of Acts 2:5 you muist look before and after the verses do you not? So if we do that the context can not be clearly seen with just Acts 2:5 .

You have to reead before and after which you states " 16 languages " were spoken how could you make such a claim if now you say niether of us could know? Or prove your stance?

so you agree that it was not 16 languages then ? as you see in Acts chapter 2:5-11 .

I have a point , ... the point is 1. those who say they spoke in 16 lanuages only cannot peove it biblically.

2. those who say they heard in other lanuages only cannot support it Biblicallly

3. Those who say only the 12 spoke in tongues can't support it Bibically

4. those who say tongues are not for today can't support it biblically

5. those who say you have to speak in tongues to be saved cannot prove that biblically

Acts chapter 2: 5-11 was an supernatural event of Gods Spirit. The speaking was also witness to the empowerment that The Lord Jesus HIMself said would happen. The power came the word was preached and 3000 were saved.

Notice that no had any issues with the explainantion of Peter from Joel 2 as to what the supernatural speaking was.
thos head it as they spoke it. they begin to mock, then Peter explained what happened from the Word of God,

which too would not to point out Joel did not know how God was going to pour out His Spirit.

Human reasoning was not edifyed this day . because it is of the flesh.

 

[garee]

wrong.
go back to the book of Acts
Ephesians is an epistle to the Spirit-filled church teaching and
exhorting proper Christian conduct.
As are all the epistles.

Only God knows all the languages of the world .They at Pentecost came from many different nations, they heard His prophecy. It gave them God's understanding in their own language.

Thesign called tongues that declared God mocking the unbelievers is in respect God bringing hisprophecy in another language. Mocking or stammering lips was a judgment pronouncedagainst the unbeliever. It would seem the god of this worlds motive of operationturning things upside in a attempt to take away the understanding of God.(prophecy) as we are informed below

Isaiah29:16Surely your turning of things upside down shall beesteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, Hemade me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

They in their own langue heard the interpretation asGod revealed it (prophecy)to them. It was not after some private interpretation of menafter meaningless sounds as a way of selfish edification.

The sign to a believer is they have a new living hope, having received theunderstanding of faith. Many outward signs as many as reflections of have bornagain people. Joy, Sadness, Comfort, Blessed, Compassion etc

 

[Didymous]

I can't prove it biblically, but you can't prove its not so. Most people reading Acts would see there's enough there to conclude the points I posted. If you want to disagree, that's fine. I stated what I believe is strongly implied, you disagree-good enough?