What I mean is, it does not matter to me that you answered my questions. I reject your interpretation of what you think 'born of water' means. There should be no mystery here, I am confortable with my 'water baptism by immersion' interpretation of what Jesus meant by 'born of water', and I do not believe that Jesus meant your first birth out of the womb covered in amniotic fluid as what it means to be 'born of water'. So we can move to another subject.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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N
understood.....
i wont try to hammer it in
the seeds been planted....
what would someone like you say about
1)
romans 4
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
what do think this even means?
also
2)
Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
or
3)
Ephesians Chapter 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
4)Galatians 5:6 - For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
5)Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work
i wont try to hammer it in
the seeds been planted....
what would someone like you say about
1)
romans 4
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
what do think this even means?
also
2)
Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
or
3)
Ephesians Chapter 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
4)Galatians 5:6 - For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
5)Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work
N
romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
4100. pisteuó ►
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
N
added interpretations would be to suggest acts 11:26 is saying something it isnt
anyways just in case you missed it....
what would someone like you say about
1)
romans 4
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
what do you think this even means?
also
2)
Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
or
3)
Ephesians Chapter 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
4)Galatians 5:6 - For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
5)Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work
anyways just in case you missed it....
what would someone like you say about
1)
romans 4
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
what do you think this even means?
also
2)
Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
or
3)
Ephesians Chapter 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
4)Galatians 5:6 - For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
5)Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work
The Bible is God's word.
Reading God's word the definition of what is required to be a Christian is found.
Those verses are used to create the Apostles Creed by the early elders.
Therefore it is a Biblical definition of what a Christian is.
I defy you to read it and find a flaw. It has stood the test of time for 1700 years.
Put up or shut up.
Waiting for your refutation!!!
Reading God's word the definition of what is required to be a Christian is found.
Those verses are used to create the Apostles Creed by the early elders.
Therefore it is a Biblical definition of what a Christian is.
I defy you to read it and find a flaw. It has stood the test of time for 1700 years.
Put up or shut up.
Waiting for your refutation!!!
N
you defy me? lol....
the flaw was your assumption
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
___________
you believe anyone needs to have any understanding regarding any specific church (holy catholic church) in order to be a Christian?
do you believe someone needs to have the knowledge Jesus was born of a virgin to have a saving faith?
you said this defines who is a Christian
i said God defines who is a Christian
you can easily be saved without ever even hearing of the "apostles creed" by grace through faith
not picking at you
just being honest
the apostles creed has nothing to do at all with who will and who wont be saved
it is entirely Gods will that decides and defines this
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Romans 4:5 Paul is telling us that it is not work of the law which justifies a man before God. I believe that saying of Paul.
I also believe that when Paul refers to works, he is referring to the works of the law, which cannot save. He was a Pharasidic Jew and they believed that if you just kept the law you would be saved. By the time of Christ they had eliminated Christ from the equation and just believed that the law was their Savior.
Paul is introducing the role of Jesus to them. He that worketh not the works of the law, but believeth on Jesus, who justifies the ungodly (and we are all ungodly), his faith is counted as righteousness. It is a true statement.
Paul also says in 2 Timothy 3:17 that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. This tells me that my belief in Christ, must be accompanied with a good works component in order for me to be a perfect man before God.
So I believe that I am not just a hearer of the word of Jesus, but also a doer of the words of Jesus and the combination of my good works, wrought for the glory of God and in the love of Jesus Christ (and not for my own salvation and self righteousness, since we know that can not save me) and the justification that Jesus offers me as an ungodly person, through my belief in him, and along with his grace, prove to be a pure path to eternal life.
The same answer applies to all the scriptures you gave me.
I also believe that when Paul refers to works, he is referring to the works of the law, which cannot save. He was a Pharasidic Jew and they believed that if you just kept the law you would be saved. By the time of Christ they had eliminated Christ from the equation and just believed that the law was their Savior.
Paul is introducing the role of Jesus to them. He that worketh not the works of the law, but believeth on Jesus, who justifies the ungodly (and we are all ungodly), his faith is counted as righteousness. It is a true statement.
Paul also says in 2 Timothy 3:17 that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. This tells me that my belief in Christ, must be accompanied with a good works component in order for me to be a perfect man before God.
So I believe that I am not just a hearer of the word of Jesus, but also a doer of the words of Jesus and the combination of my good works, wrought for the glory of God and in the love of Jesus Christ (and not for my own salvation and self righteousness, since we know that can not save me) and the justification that Jesus offers me as an ungodly person, through my belief in him, and along with his grace, prove to be a pure path to eternal life.
The same answer applies to all the scriptures you gave me.
N
hmmmm
lets say there are two men
1- has a genuine faith in Christ.... has been born agin
made new
but has not yet had 1 good work from the perspective of man... from the time he was born until the time he heard Gods call (as a grown man) he was a wicked sinner only looking to pleasure himself
and 15 hours after he believes on Jesus Christ .... truely....
seeking Him through prayer and His inspired written word
he passes away in the same bed where He heard His call
2- there is a man who says he believes in Jesus Christ as his lord and savior... this man learned of God at a young age and was instructed in His ways.... through a life of study and worship
he has many good works to back up his claim of faith
and he dies sharing the true message of the gospel (how we are saved by grace through faith lol)
would you think based on scripture both of these men are saved?
and do you think God cannot tell a genuine faith
from a flimsy faith that can be walked away from apart from the start?
do you think works are needed in order to show God who has and who doesnt have a genuine faith?
do you think these works play any part in justifying/glorifying a man BEFORE GOD (not man)
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 25:32*-46 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/mat.25.32-46.KJV
Matthew 25:32*-46 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/mat.25.32-46.KJV
In other words you are unable to refute what I said. Historically it was created by the early elders because of heresies and divisions in the church.
It defines where the line of heresy begins.
It allows the peripheral beliefs to be agree to disagree.
This defines who is and isn't a Christian. It is the core beliefs of a Christian. It isn't about salvation but the core beliefs that follow salvation.
Each denomination has doctrinal statements defining the doctrines of the denomination. This is essentially a core doctrinal statement.
It defines where the line of heresy begins.
It allows the peripheral beliefs to be agree to disagree.
This defines who is and isn't a Christian. It is the core beliefs of a Christian. It isn't about salvation but the core beliefs that follow salvation.
Each denomination has doctrinal statements defining the doctrines of the denomination. This is essentially a core doctrinal statement.