examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please

[RickyZ]

Who here would attack the gift of the Spirit?


Roger

Would not denying the gifts be a form of attack?

 

[garee]

You will notice those who use incorrectly 1cor 13:8 and only quote part of the verse "Whether there be tongues, they shall cease".

that is not the context of 1cor 13:8 again they fail to read the three chapters as a unit 1cor 12, 13, and 14. they cherry pick .

So Lets look at the context of "Whether there be tongues, they shall cease".

the open verse says " 8 Love never fails. pretty big statement to leave out .
then it goes on to say "But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

Notices it does not say "DiD fail," or did cease. Has knowledge vanished away ? NO the context is making a bigger point about the opening statement as does the whole Chapter of 13 LOVE.

verse 9 is one that those who say tongues are not for today cannot deal with so they attack the claim of those who say they speak in tongues. Yet they have a bigger issue with chapter 13 they run from.
let's look at the next part :

For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

some think the "perfect" is the Bible , and we do not need the gifts of the Holy Sprit any more.
FYI When as the Word of God never been perfect? When has the Holy Spirit not been ?

this is a very big problem for them to explain(biblical truth always more powerful then human reasoning).
those same people who say that the Bible is that which is perfect to come, will in the same breath state " the Bible has errors ". smh.

What do we know from the text and the unit chapters ? what is the perfect to come?

the word is here and is Perfect Ps 19:7
"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

We know the Holy Spirit has always been Here:

Gen 1:2 " The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.



Lets continue is 1cor 13 shall we?

11When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

when was the "then" ? did we miss something ? What is it that we "shall know" ?

verse 13"13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
what shall we know ? from verse 1 cor chapter 13 to the last verse of in 13 Love is the answer .
But if those who think this has to do with tongues ceasing remember the full context is in the unit of the three chapters contextually.

on to 1cor 14 verse 1

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

WHAT ? there is the word LOVE from chapter 13 and the command to desire spiritual gifts , Hmm I thought they were done away with in chapter 13 ? and then it says to especially that you may prophesy which some take as no speaking in tongues .

The Bias for and against tongues all to the same thing fail to read the full context of the three unit chapters and when they are shown this, many of them result to scientific mockery because it does not accept the word of God.
"You who are spiritual restore such a one "

those who have issues with foolishness in operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit abuses do happen. As abuses with every gift God has entrusted man and women with.
no other gift then the Pulpit Gods spokesmen has done more to harm the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Bible teaches we who are spiritual= mature are to correct this. 1cor 14 tell us how to do it. The church needs to remember there is a big problem with churches today and those who go:

1. No relationship with Jesus, they have been taught the Love God accepts you sin and all.
2. Bible illiteracy many have no biblical understanding
3. no correction of misuses of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.


There are levels of error caused by various reasons



1. Ignorance & unlearned
2. Immaturity
3. Bad role models
4. Biblical error
5. False teaching
6. The spirit of anti-christ

each one of those with the exception of "spirit of anti-christ" can be done by a christain that has not been corrected.

When I see this in a service we correct it with and in a loving way.

if the person is not willing to accept correction as some do they are asked not to speak in the service and we explain by what authority we can do this according to the word of God, not human logic or linguist .
many who will not like it do not come back and guess what they go looking for another location to be foolish.

Just so you know it is the Church location job to allow them to make a mistake and teach them a better way. Not beat them over the head and say you have demon. " you who are spiritual restore such a one.

many are not looking to restore and corrrect error, they look to attack the gift of the Spirit and use human logic to explain spiritual things LOL. the Word of God does not show us that.

Because God knows all the languages in the world, Prophecy spoken in many languages called tongues could never fail. New promised revelations as prophecy ceased after John on the island of Patmos. God added a warning to anyone who would add or subtract from the book of prophecy the Bible and ended it with an Amen.


Now that we know in whole or perfect we no longer know in part. Because we have the perfect, no new knowledge will be added. Those who go above that which is written identify themselves as un-believers (no faith)

We have the whole or perfect law (Ps 19:7).it as a living word continues to do its work working in our hearts to both will and do the good pleasure of our God giving us simply ones His understandings.

Why go above that which is written ? Experience is not the validator of the things not seen, the word of prophecy alone is that source of God's faith that does work in us who believe.

 

[RickyZ]

What did God promise Adam after the fall ... that He would send someone to restore what was lost, or that He'd write us a book just to document it all?

If you were waiting for a book then your perfect has come.

If you are waiting for the restoration of creation, then your perfect is yet to come.

 

[CS1]

LOL Filled with straw men and false assumptions.

Who here would attack the gift of the Spirit?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome,

I have not mentioned no names but , if you want to go back through some archives of the ones on this topic they are there, please do. after all the context provided with biblical support you can only say

"LOL Filled with straw men and false assumptions. "

read 1cor chapter's 12, 13, and 14 as you sir, have been recommended to do many times. If you are honest about your question:
then you have seen were even you I might add were called names in the past. But I'm not going to dig back to answer your question because it has been answered more than once so, you and I have nothing to speak about on this, but if you want to provide a Biblical Rebuttal to the context of the verses in my point " Straw man" is very weak in your arguement.

God bless

 

[RickyZ]

CS1, there are those who believe 1 Cor 12, 13, and 14 have been redacted. Not sure how you get them over that hump. I went the other way and 'published' a new Bible for them, and others as well. Perhaps you've heard of the MRV?

 

[CS1]

Because God knows all the languages in the world, Prophecy spoken in many languages called tongues could never fail. New promised revelations as prophecy ceased after John on the island of Patmos. God added a warning to anyone who would add or subtract from the book of prophecy the Bible and ended it with an Amen.


Now that we know in whole or perfect we no longer know in part. Because we have the perfect, no new knowledge will be added. Those who go above that which is written identify themselves as un-believers (no faith)

We have the whole or perfect law (Ps 19:7).it as a living word continues to do its work working in our hearts to both will and do the good pleasure of our God giving us simply ones His understandings.

Why go above that which is written ? Experience is not the validator of the things not seen, the word of prophecy alone is that source of God's faith that does work in us who believe.

I see you did not even explain 1cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 . and you say

"prophecy ceased after John on the island of Patmos. God added a warning to anyone who would add or subtract from the book of prophecy the Bible and ended it with an Amen."

could you please provided the word of God to support your undertsnding?

 

[CS1]

Would not denying the gifts be a form of attack?

No it would not be in my opinon ,

unless the motives were welknown . I do not want to assume those who disagree with the gift of tongues today are attacking , there are more clearer examples over just disagreeing or not seeing it in the word of God. and attack do happen by both too.

to be far .

 

[CS1]

CS1, there are those who believe 1 Cor 12, 13, and 14 have been redacted. Not sure how you get them over that hump. I went the other way and 'published' a new Bible for them, and others as well. Perhaps you've heard of the MRV?

explain please " "reacted" i want to make sure I'm understanding you.

 

[RickyZ]

ReDacted: [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to obscure or remove (text) from a document prior to publication or release[/FONT]

 

[RickyZ]

No it would not be in my opinon ,

unless the motives were welknown . I do not want to assume those who disagree with the gift of tongues today are attacking , there are more clearer examples over just disagreeing or not seeing it in the word of God. and attack do happen by both too.

to be far .

If someone denies a bonafide gift, they are in effect attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan. Some will even say this openly. Too, if they teach others that the gifts are not in operation today, they steal that potential blessing from others. If that's not an attack I don't know what is.

 

[DJ2]

If someone denies a bonafide gift, they are in effect attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan. Some will even say this openly. Too, if they teach others that the gifts are not in operation today, they steal that potential blessing from others. If that's not an attack I don't know what is.

If someone denies a bonafide gift,​

Can you give me an example of a bonafide gift?

 

[CS1]

If someone denies a bonafide gift, they are in effect attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan. Some will even say this openly. Too, if they teach others that the gifts are not in operation today, they steal that potential blessing from others. If that's not an attack I don't know what is.

NO RickyZ,

I disagree . It is not attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan just because one denys the gift. That is just as foolish as those who say tongues is of the devil.

those who teach the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" are not for today are just as I posted earlier in the list:


1. Ignorance & unlearned
2. Immaturity
3. Bad role models
4. Biblical error
5. False teaching
6. The spirit of anti-christ

note the # 6 has some very clear examples to meet that .

We do no service to teaching those of the wonderful gift's of the Holy Spirit by suggesting they are attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil. That is a very serious judegment and most of the time in my 30 + years of minstery many have used that to control and attack and to cause condemnation . the word of God i9s clear enough.

1cor chapters 12, 13, and 14 and the book of Acts are more then enough to show the empowrment of the Holy Spirit and we all should seek to be used of God and desire spiritual gifts.

 

[CS1]

explain please " "reacted" i want to make sure I'm understanding you.

lol that is what many do to remove biblical context for something they do not afree with then will place it back when it is better for thier posistion . I say skubala to that.

 

[garee]

I see you did not even explain 1cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 . and you say

"prophecy ceased after John on the island of Patmos. God added a warning to anyone who would add or subtract from the book of prophecy the Bible and ended it with an Amen."

could you please provided the word of God to support your undertsnding?

I see you did not even explain 1corchapter 12, 13, and 14 . and you say

"prophecy ceased after John on the island of Patmos. God added a warningto anyone who would add or subtract from the book of prophecy the Bible andended it with an Amen."

could you please provided the word of God to support your understanding?

I think we are taking away the key of understanding by making the sign evidenceof a believer which is a sign against those who do not believe prophecy .

But below are the last words God spoke before he sealedup the possibilities of another manner of brining His thoughts to mankind.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words ofthe prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shalladd unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shalltake away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away hispart out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the thingswhich are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, SurelyI come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord JesusChrist be with you all. Amen. Revelation 22

Do we need to go above that which is written now that we have the whole sealedup till the end of time? Are there laws missing by which we could know Him moreadequately?
I would think because we have the whole which would eliminate false prophecy that say thus says the Lord, or I saw a vision as a out of the body experience.

Why else other than we are receiving no more prophecy in any manner as that which would make it impossible to be deceived?

Any prophecy received after that is immediately know as false. No matter what words they use.

By that law of protection (no new prophecy) we know Mohomed is a false prophet and any man that say lo is Christ I had a vision, Jim Jones, Charles Russell, etc we are to believe not.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here isChrist, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christ's, and falseprophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were "possible", they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold,he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers;believe it not Mathew 24

​

 

[RickyZ]

NO RickyZ,

I disagree . It is not attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan just because one denys the gift. That is just as foolish as those who say tongues is of the devil.

those who teach the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" are just as I posted earlier in the list:


1. Ignorance & unlearned
2. Immaturity
3. Bad role models
4. Biblical error
5. False teaching
6. The spirit of anti-christ

note the # 6 has some very clear examples to meet that .

We do no service to teaching those of the wonderful gift's of the Holy Spirit by suggesting they are attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil. That is a very serious judegment and most of the time in my 30 + years of minstery many have used that to control and attack and to cause condemnation . the word of God i9s clear enough.

1cor chapters 12, 13, and 14 and the book of Acts are more then enough to show the empowrment of the Holy Spirit and we all should seek to be used of God and desire spiritual gifts.

OK maybe I'm confused. I was under the impression that you believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in effect today. And that you teach the gifts are still in effect today. But according to this post, if you do, you are ignorant and unlearned, immature, a bad role model, in error, a false teacher, and an antichrist. Can't have it both ways, sir. Please clarify.

Too. Let's say the Holy Spirit moves and heals someone. An onlooker says "that wasn't the Holy Spirit because the HS doesn't do that anymore". The person is still healed, so where did the healing come from? If someone says it's not the HS, there's only one other place it could have come from...

 

[CS1]

I think we are taking away the key of understanding by making the sign evidenceof a believer which is a sign against those who do not believe prophecy .
But below are the last words God spoke before he sealedup the possibilities of another manner of brining His thoughts to mankind.




For I testify unto every man that heareth the words ofthe prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shalladd unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shalltake away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away hispart out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the thingswhich are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, SurelyI come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord JesusChrist be with you all. Amen. Revelation 22

Do we need to go above that which is written now that we have the whole sealedup till the end of time? Are there laws missing by which we could know Him moreadequately?
I would think because we have the whole which would eliminatefalse prophecy that say thus says the Lord, or I saw a vision as a out of the body experience.

Why else other than we are receiving no more prophecy in any manner as that which would make it impossible to be deceived?

Any prophecy received after that is immediately know as false. No matter what words they use.

By that law of protection (no new prophecy) we know Modemed is a false prophet and any man that say lo is Christ I had a vision, Jim Jones, Charles Russell, etc

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here isChrist, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christ's, and falseprophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were "possible", they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold,he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers;believe it not Mathew 24

​

you are very allergorizing in your post. one I'm not even saying to make "sign evidence of a believer". because that is not what the chpater are teaching in 1cor 12, 13, and 14. Jesus did say these sign shall follow them that Believe in Mark 16. But if a believer does not speak in tongues I am not seeing the gifts of the Holy Spirit used to authenicate ones salvation. You did not see that or hear me say that.

And I see the Gifts of the Holy Spirit used in the Body of Christ spificly Prophecy/prophseying not as a NEW word but confriming what has already been said. You are right jim jones was a false prophet , and if those would have seen the full context of chapter 14 in 1 corinthains we are to judge the word according to the word already given.

You are right many do not do this I agree , that is an issue I agree. Buit that does not remove the context of the gifts of the Holy Spirit because men and women misuse them.


Jesus said in Matt 24 " take heed no man deceives you". this is what hapopens when we subsittue the word of God for ther gifts of God by His Spiirt That should not be both are needed. 1cor 14 " 26-27

[FONT=&quot] Let all things be done for edification. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.[/FONT]


Let the other Judge , how? by what is already wrtten . If we already have the bible why do we need tongues ? I ask why do you need a preacher ? is not what they say to be judged by the word of God too? absalutely .

we are to be mature in our thinking

 

[DJ2]

OK maybe I'm confused. I was under the impression that you believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in effect today. And that you teach the gifts are still in effect today. But according to this post, if you do, you are ignorant and unlearned, immature, a bad role model, in error, a false teacher, and an antichrist. Can't have it both ways, sir. Please clarify.

Too. Let's say the Holy Spirit moves and heals someone. An onlooker says "that wasn't the Holy Spirit because the HS doesn't do that anymore". The person is still healed, so where did the healing come from? If someone says it's not the HS, there's only one other place it could have come from...

If someone says it's not the HS, there's only one other place it could have come from...​

Really? Healing is either an act of the Holy Spirit or of Satanic powers? Talk about a false dichotomy.

 

[RickyZ]

Really? Healing is either an act of the Holy Spirit or of Satanic powers? Talk about a false dichotomy.

Miraculous healing. Miracles come from one of two sources.

Did I really have to spell it out?



Smhs

 

[CS1]

OK maybe I'm confused. I was under the impression that you believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in effect today. And that you teach the gifts are still in effect today. But according to this post, if you do, you are ignorant and unlearned, immature, a bad role model, in error, a false teacher, and an antichrist. Can't have it both ways, sir. Please clarify.

Too. Let's say the Holy Spirit moves and heals someone. An onlooker says "that wasn't the Holy Spirit because the HS doesn't do that anymore". The person is still healed, so where did the healing come from? If someone says it's not the HS, there's only one other place it could have come from...

Please read what I said in context to # 6 spirit of anti-christ.

Yes I do believe are in operation today all of them. And Yes I do teach them as I see in the word of God amen.

there are many reasons why good saved people do not agree wit this . Unless we assume every christian has learned the word of God from one location. That is just not the case . GOd knows there are good saved Christians who do not agree with it. the reason are as I believe and liosted them. BUt know too ,

many have come to learn and know and be used by the gifts.

it has to do with maturity RickyZ. I have had many young believers tell me thing that were not biblically correct concerning the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I'm not going to tell them you are attributing the gifts of the Holy Spirit to the devil. That is not correction that is condemnation.
your hypertheical let out, one thing as many do God is still Sovereign we cannot place HIM in a Box.

If a person is healed and one there says " the Holy Spirit doesn't do that anymore", come on RickyZ that is igornace and imaturity . you do know people come to church who are not saved right/ and many times they leave the same way. we are to let them be, and pray for them 1cor 14:39. The place where it has come from is by merit, we cannot assume it is all the devil thisa is why we do not have unit.

 

[CS1]

Miraculous healing. Miracles come from one of two sources.

Did I really have to spell it out?



Smhs

No RickyZ everything Good comes from God JUST BECAUSE it did not hapopen in our church service doe not mean God can't be glorfied HE rains on the just and unjust alike.