Sin starts with the one that is already a sinner from birth. Sin produce sin. We are sin from birth because of Adam being separated from God after the fruit. That is when they became sinners, and all Adam's seed produced sinners.
New Covenant and Old Covenant
- Thread starter Blik
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I generally agree with that except a few things:
I believe the "new Covenant" started when Yahshua's blood was shed. 2 reasons why are:
the shedding of blood is what ratifies a covenant:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 24:6-8, “And Mosheh took half the blood and put it in basins, and half the blood he sprinkled on the altar. And he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, “All that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has spoken we shall do, and obey.” And Mosheh took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said, “See, the blood of the covenant which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has made with you concerning all these Words.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 9:18-20, “Therefore not even the first covenant was instituted without blood. For when, according to Torah, every command had been spoken by Mosheh to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which the Mighty One commanded you.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 13:20 “And the Mighty One of peace who brought up our Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.”[/FONT]
Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."
the crimson strap never turn white again after His Sacrifice, even those of Judaisim testify against themselves with this:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Talmud - Mas. Yoma 39b[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]His brethren [that year] the priests forbore to mention the Ineffable Name (YHWH) in pronouncing the [priestly] blessing.4 Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white/"
I beleive the Temple was destroyed in 68 but that is another issue.
However what do you believe about the 7 Feast days do you believe all of them are fulfilled or still some yet to come?
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but that did not answer what sin is.
sin is trangression of the Law.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."
If the Law is done away there is noting one can do that is a sin.
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Sin always existed after Adam and Eve, but there was no law written to condemn . They were punished for their sin in many ways before the law was written., but limited only to the flesh. Like Cain was punished for his sin, Adam and Eve punished for their sins as well, even though there was no law., but sin for sure.
I dont disagree with you statement here, however Paul's say no Law = no sin
Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."
the reason I can say I agree with you is because I do not believe the was a aritten Law but I do beleive that when YHWH told Adam and Eve to noit eat of the tree, going against what He said was then sin.
ALso as far as we know the was not a written Law in Abrahams day, there may have been, I beleive there was because the land he came from had a law called Hammaraubi's law, it is my belief that this was founded from YHWH's Law but altered.
In any case written or not Abraham did indeed keep YHWH's Instructions also called His Law or Torah:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 26:5, “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my (H8451) Laws.”
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No, he said where there is no law, sin is not imputed, meaning not knowing what to do with them at that time. ,because there was no law, did not mean no punishment .but we know God found a way to make that possible.
actually he said:
Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."
that does not say no punishment, it says no sin...
well I think this is important:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
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Ariel82
Guest
That is the start of the new covenant....for awhile both new and old covenant existed. The old didnt become obsolete until the Temple was destroyed...doing away with animal sacrifices and temple taxes and the Levutical priesthood....Paul kept both the old and new covenant. He even had Timothy circumcised and paid for some young men to offer sacrifices in accordance with the old covenant.
New covenant has all believers priests. Our bodies temples for the indwelling holy spirit. Jesus sacrifice enough to wash us clean of sin. Adoption as children of God .making taxes unnecessary.
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People were punished for their sins before the law was written. just go back before it was written. My belief is that they always existed before they were written. That is the same way God handled sin before the law was written.
except for the fact that blood ratifies a covenant and the entire book of Hebrews was about those in the temple still playing priest when there was a new High Priest, Yahshua...
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Ariel82
Guest
I agree with this 100%, a thought I had was the Abraham thing, Adam and Eves sin, and that if His rules did not exist then satan did nothing worng in the garden, and we know satan was cast out.
One thing I feel in my heart is I can trust Yah because He is perfect in righteousness, and fully trustworthy, if He says something He can be counted on.
I guess saying that allows you to ignore tha fact the blodd ratifies a covenant and Yahshua was High Priest when Hebrews was written and the levites were still in the temple thinking they were doing something that in reality as Hebrews says no longer had any meaning? Look at the content in hebrews...
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Ariel82
Guest
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Ariel82
Guest
Hebrews 8:13 ►
New International Version
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
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2 covenants existing at the same time...
New International Version
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
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2 covenants existing at the same time...
ok
Hebrews 10:11, "And indeed every priest stands day by day doing service, and repeatedly offering the same sacrifice offerings which are never able to take away sins."10:12, "But He, having offered one sacrifice offering for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of the Mighty One,"10:13, "waiting from that time onward until His enemies are made a footstool for His feet. Psa 110:1."10:14, "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are being set apart."10:15, "And the Set-apart Spirit also witnesses to us, for after having said before,"10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,”a Jer 31:33. Footnote: aSee also Heb 8:8-12."10:17, "and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” Jer 31:34."10:18, "Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer a sacrifice offering for sin."10:19, "So, brothers, having boldness to enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of יהושע,"10:20,
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Ariel82
Guest
Paul and other Jews still kept the old covenant until the destruction of the Temple.
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Acts 21
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17 After we arrived in Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the following day Paul went in with us to [c]James, and all the elders were present. 19 After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many [d]thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to [e]walk according to the customs. 22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who [f]are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and [g]pay their expenses so that they may shave their [h]heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.” 26 Then Paul [j]took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.
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Acts 21
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17 After we arrived in Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the following day Paul went in with us to [c]James, and all the elders were present. 19 After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many [d]thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to [e]walk according to the customs. 22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who [f]are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and [g]pay their expenses so that they may shave their [h]heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.” 26 Then Paul [j]took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.
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Ariel82
Guest
Acts 20
16For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he might not have to spend time in Asia, for he was hastening to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.
16For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he might not have to spend time in Asia, for he was hastening to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.
HUH!, Paul didn't come to fight, but instead followed through with what they still held on to until they learned the truth for themselves. circumcision was not done away with, but described as not being a way to a clean heart, which is the circumcision Paul was really talking about.