Do genuine ex-Christians exist? (Discussion Topic)

[Grandpa]

What does that have to do with no longer believing/trusting in what you can not now un-know?

.​

A Christian knows Christ.

No one can stop knowing what they know just by making a decision of the will.

The condition for salvation is that you believe/trust in what you know about Christ. So, not being able to un-know the story of Christ is hardly a reason why you can't become unsaved.

Negatory, ghost rider.

Salvation is in the Person Jesus Christ. When you know Jesus Christ you know Salvation.

IF you don't know Christ you don't know Salvation and you are not yet a Christian, no matter what you think or what you have been told.

The force of gravity is not applied to me on the basis of whether or not I believe in it. And the effects of aging are not conditioned on me believing in it. This makes your analogy useless and inapplicable

It makes it useless to you because you have no understanding. Doesn't surprise me in the least.

There are FACTS that are true whether you stop believing in them or not.

John 10:27-28

[SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

These are facts whether you once believed it and now do not or whether you never believed in the first place.

Just like gravity. Just like aging.
​

 

[Lewiz]

Hello,

It has been a while since I've been on this site. Just cleaning up my bookmarks and thought I'd revisit to ask a simple question and see what responses we get.

The question is simple. Do ex-Christians exist? Are there people out there who once had genuine faith in Jesus Christ, but now no longer believe in God? It's an interesting question because different denominations have different starting points on this. Pentecostals will openly admit that such people exist, and have lost their salvation as a result of their denunciation. More Calvinist leaning denominations, like the Baptists, will staunchly deny that such people exist. There's simply no room for genuine exChristians in Calvinist theology.

But before we begin, I guess we need to clarify what it means to be a genuine Christian. For purposes of this discussion, and feel free to comment if you disagree, a genuine Christian is defined as an individual who acknowledged that they have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. They believe in Jesus Christ and what is written in the Bible. They believe Jesus is God, and He died on the cross for us, so that through Him we can be saved from our sin. They profess Jesus as Lord and invite the Holy Spirit to dwell inside them to guide them through life. They develop a repentant heart, where they turn from former sin and feel convicted when commit sin. They love the Lord and are genuine in their faith. This is a true believer.

So is it possible, for a true believer, as defined above, to one day struggle with their faith, for whatever reasons, and eventually lose their faith entirely as a result of that struggle, to the point where they no longer believe God exists?

According to those who claim to be genuine ex-Christians, the answer is an easy yes. A quick search online and you will find several communities of people proclaiming to be just that. Their stories are varied. Some were former missionaries or pastors. Others lost their faith while attending Christian college. Some were pastors kids. They share their testimony about how they came to Christ and their Christian life, testimonies that resemble one of any true believer. But then for one reason or another, a crisis of faith arose in their life, and it ended with them no longer believing.

So why this long-winded topic? Well, while several Christians completely acknowledge the existence of these people, and use them as evidence of how salvation can be lost, there is a large group of Christians who, despite any evidence ex-Christians try to give to prove that they were once genuine, refuse to believe that ex-Christians exist. They're response is quite simple: A true believer would never lose their faith, thus, these people must have never been true believers.

It's a response that's viewed as insulting to the ex-Christian community, as they feel it dismisses them without even hearing them out. Simply by no longer believing now, whatever they believed or experienced before must not have been genuine. End of discussion....

...Or is it? That's what I want to do here. How exactly does the latter dismiss the former? If they themselves were being genuine in their faith at the time, how can that be considered ingenuine? And if you truly believe they were never saved, then does that mean when I prayed as a young child for Jesus to come into my heart, that God said no?

Woops, didn't mean to make it personal. But it is personal. I exist. Living proof that it is very possible to live your life as a genuine follower of Jesus Christ but eventually come to a place where I lost that faith. If you don't agree with that, then let's discuss this, and try to get to the bottom of this tricky topic.

So if I get this right, you're a former christian wanting to know about the parts of the Bible that talk about christians falling away?

If that's the case, you might as well throw up your hands & quit, for you wouldn't understand the scriptures if we showed them to you, for they are spiritually discerned & you can no longer do that.

 

[maxwel]

I'm not going to argue whether or not a Christian can lose his salvation.

I''ll only point out some issues the OP should consider.

Though there are many issues to consider, I'll focus this post on the single issue of divine presence.



Divine Presence


In most orthodox denominations, conversion is usually equated with an actual ENCOUNTER of the divine.
Most Christians, when they have their conversion experience (often called being "saved" or "born again"), they have an overwhelming, and quite visceral experience of the divine presence. They quite literally FEEL God, SENSE GOD SURROUNDING THEM, and EXPERIENCE HIS PRESENCE. This is often so powerful and overwhelming that people have an extraordinarily life changing, and permanent experience.

During conversion, people often have a range of very similar, and life altering experiences. They might: fall to the floor, break down in tears, tremble and shake in the presence of God, instantly vow to change everything in their lives, and instantly dedicate their entire lives to this GOD whom they have just encountered in such a real and powerful way.

Many Christians have this personal experience of the divine quite often, not only when they are converted, but very frequently, during times of prayer, worship, study, and devotion.

This is not to be confused with an ordinary emotional feeling, like feeling bad about sin, or feeling good about doing a good thing, or feeling elated in the face of great news... this is something quite overwhelming, quite alien to normal experience, quite unlike any simple emotional state, and quite obviously and apparently something OUTSIDE of yourself. No one who meets God, and has this kind of personal experience of the divine, ever questions it.


Here's where we begin to have some strange questions:
If someone has had a PERSONAL, VISCERAL, TANGIBLE, OVERWHELMING experience of the divine presence... an experience so real and tangible they tremble and quake in this presence of God, an experience so real and tangible they instantly renounce their sins and dedicate their lives to HIS service, an experience so real and tangible their lives are forever changed at the very deepest levels ... when someone has such a TANGIBLE, PERSONAL, and CERTAIN experience of the divine, an experience that brings deep and innate certainty so overwhelming that the person is permanently and forever changed, how exactly can such a person later claim the divine doesn't exist?




Conclusions To Consider:

1. It would seem, to my own meager understanding, that if you ever truly "MET GOD", you would never have any rational, or even emotional ability, to disbelieve in him...
just as I can never disbelieve I saw the Grand Canyon in all it's majesty, or that I swam in the Pacific Ocean and felt it surrounding me, overpowering me, and warming me.

If you ever truly "MET GOD", well then, you simply met God... it is a simple and undeniable matter.


2. That would seem to leave us with the following, and inescapable conclusions:
A. Perhaps you never really met God, thus you have no personal knowledge of him... in this case I would find no argument in your claim to be an atheist.
B. If you did meet God, and then turned against him, then you would be fully aware of the existence and reality of almighty God, and thus, in this scenario, you wouldn't really be an atheist at all... you'd just be someone running from his creator.

 

[JesusLives]

I can give you an example of a true believer and a heavenly host member who was truly an angel but lost his way and that was Lucifer who was high in the ranking of angels maybe even the highest posting of God's angels and we are told he at one point worshiped God.

Lucifer changed his mind and we know him as Satan the Devil now he lost his faith in God and traded it for faith in himself.... He will never admit that he is truly sorry for what he has done to his dying day... But Lucifer was a true believing angel at one point in his life.....

Ex-Christian can happen.

 

[JesusLives]

We are the ones on the move meaning we walk away from God.

God's Holy Spirit is constantly wooing us to come to God and God promised to never leave or forsake us.

So we are the ones that walk away and just as Angela said God is always there loving us He has proven that love with the death of His Son paying the awful price of sin.

God is always faithful towards us we are the faithless and give up so easily.

 

[Didymous]

I can give you an example of a true believer and a heavenly host member who was truly an angel but lost his way and that was Lucifer who was high in the ranking of angels maybe even the highest posting of God's angels and we are told he at one point worshiped God.

Lucifer changed his mind and we know him as Satan the Devil now he lost his faith in God and traded it for faith in himself.... He will never admit that he is truly sorry for what he has done to his dying day... But Lucifer was a true believing angel at one point in his life.....

Ex-Christian can happen.

Angels aren't Christians.

 

[Honey_Bee]

I stopped reading after post #27.

Ex-Christian, of course this exists from a fleshly perspective.

What we must understand is how we are to approach the bible through right division, so we can see how it is that God is dealing with the salvation of individuals in this dispensation, and in this ministry... then, we might refrain from misappropriation of the scriptures, and judgments that are not ours to make concerning the work of God. God is faithful.

In the dispensation of the grace of God toward all men, by the "ministry of reconciliation", God is calling us by a gospel message, once received by believing, we are quickened, washed, re-gened, sealed members of the household, as the church the body of Christ, aka a new creature.

Did you hear the testimony of the Father about His Son, that Christ died for your sins, was buried and was raised from the dead for your justification... did you believe that? Then you are saved by the faith and operation of God, regardless of what you may become in your own eyes.

As a saint of God in possession of eternal life, we are invited to know the things of God, that we might walk in them, and enjoy life more abundantly through rejoicing in God, comfort of hope, strengthened by truth, and the peace that comes from having a thankful heart knowing the will of God for our lives as we prepare for eternity by building a house of doctrine in the inner man by the teaching of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost... or not. Nothing will diminish the fact that we have received a gift. God is good.


"we are more than conquerors through him that loved us"

 

[RickyZ]

Yes they do. They're known as backsliders

Actually, there is a difference between backsliding and being apostate. Backsliders still believe, they just don't walk the walk. Apostates stop believing altogether.

And in response to another post, having been a Christian, then gone apostate, you cannot return to God.

 

[Zmouth]

Interesting that you wrote this from a third person perspective considering John 3:11.

I'm not going to argue whether or not a Christian can lose his salvation.

I''ll only point out some issues the OP should consider.

Though there are many issues to consider, I'll focus this post on the single issue of divine presence.

When you say divine presence are you referring unto the 'Spirit' or the 'Light' since the 'Eternal' is not of this world, which can be easily be disproved by the evidence of something which has always existed, however considering that this universe and everything therein had a beginning, then does not natural itself tells us that it is not eternal.

Thus it is written to search the scriptures, for in them the sinner 'believes' they have eternal life, which is the reason he came to call the sinners to repentance, which is to say to change their mind.

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 5:37-40

Of course many that believe that those who search the scriptures and are the 'they' which testify of him, yet one could also easily believe that the scriptures are the 'they' which testify of the him.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5

So if Moses wrote of him, then howbeit they say they believe his words?

And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. Ex 24:12

At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark. Deut 10:1-2

So wouldn't the truth be an indication of the presence of the LORD?

 

[Katy-follower]

What does that have to do with no longer believing/trusting in what you can not now un-know?

The condition for salvation is that you believe/trust in what you know about Christ. So, not being able to un-know the story of Christ is hardly a reason why you can't become unsaved.

The force of gravity is not applied to me on the basis of whether or not I believe in it. And the effects of aging are not conditioned on me believing in it. This makes your analogy useless and inapplicable.

The very first moment a person believes, God ~ the Creator of all things ~ does a work of Creation within them, creating within us a new nature. We became new creatures in Christ. 2 Cor 5:17: "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new"

It is the power of God to salvation, for all who believe. HE makes us a new creation. It's a supernatural experience. It's not something a person can un-experience or un-know, once they've been born from above.

When we use that term "believer" on this site we are referring to those who have been born of the Spirit and changed, not simply a person who professes to believe (mental assent), but yet they've not been born from above. Unfortunately I think you're using the term "believer" as mental belief and as a position that one jumps to and from. Like an atheist who becomes an agnostic, then a mormon, then a satanist. They go through this never ending game of musical chairs because they don't yet have truth. As lost people they are trying to fill the hole in their life (which only God can fill) and they look for it in the wrong places.... some buy nice cars and houses, others turn to a religion. But once a person knows the truth (having been born from above), that gap is filled. They have assurance and don't go jumping to and from different religions as insecure lost people do.

 

[Depleted]

Well, this has gotten quite a few responses. Thanks to everyone who contributed the discussion.

To the group of people still doubting my genuine faith. I don't know what more to say. I believed I was a born again Christian from age 10 to about age 23. Inbetween that time, my faith in Christ was real and living. I prayed nightly. I loved worshiping God through song. My identity in Christ was the driving force in my life that affected all other things I did. I went to a Christian middle school and high school and for a time considered going into the ministry. The first time I read the Bible cover to cover was when I was 13. It took me a year to do it, but oh how I grew in the faith that one year. I loved God, truly. I believed the Holy Spirit dwelt within me, as promised in Scripture. I believed my salvation was not my own doing; God was given the glory for that.....I just don't know what more to say. I understand that for many of you, someone like me simply can't exist, as it doesn't coincide with your particular worldview. So you make up some excuse as to why I was never really a true Christian, and go back to pretending we don't exist. And for those who fall in that group, I'm not sure what more I can say.

A few other observations. Ralph, I appreciate your perspective. You have left several insightful comments, and even correctly deduced my reason for making this topic. You want to know the ironic thing? Back when I was a believer, I sided with the OSAS people. I believed that there was no such thing as genuine ex-Christians, and just assumed all people claiming to be so were just ex-catholics who only went to church twice a year or something like that. I believed in eternal security, because I feel that that viewpoint was better backed in Scripture than the alternate. So oddly enough, while I never was amongst your point of view as a believer, I am thankful for your responses and your insight.

For those who said that I had a weak faith and fell away because of that. Well, I'd have to disagree, but ultimately agree I guess. Back when I was a believer, I felt my faith was very strong, and I fed the fires of my faith in many ways to keep it strong. Anyone remember the song "shout to the lord"? It was one of my favorites as a young person. My favorite line in the song was "forever I'll love you, forever I'll stand" and I believed it wholeheartedly when I sang it. I thought that I could lose everything else in this world, but I'd always have Christ and my faith in Him. I think that's why my crisis of faith blindsided me so much. Various things started chipping away. It was not just one thing and it did not take just one day. And I did not go down quietly. I struggled to keep my faith for two years before finally acknowledging that I no longer believe. When I made that acknowledgement, it felt like I lost my best friend. Like a part of me was missing. So was my faith weak? Maybe so...after all I did fall away. But when I was in the faith, it sure seemed extremely strong.

AuntieAnnie, and others like you, thank you for your responses. I am not going to pretend to know what the future has in store for me. My worldview has shifted wildly once, maybe it could again. But right now, I'm in a state of mind where I couldn't believe even if I wanted to. As I referenced above, I didn't actually want to lose my faith. And you might say, "if you want to believe again, then just do it, call out to God and ask for forgiveness." The problem is, we actually can't just believe in anything we want to believe in. For example, I can't make myself believe in Santa Claus anymore. No matter how hard I try or want to believe it, there are intellectual barriers that are preventing that from happening. Now I am not equating God with Santa Claus, those are two completely different things, and it would be insulting to Christianity to equate the two. What I was simply doing was showing an example of how we don't have full control over what we can believe in.

JesusLives, I thank you for your encouraging post. Not many responses to me were what I'd consider friendly, but I could really see love coming from that post you made and it was nice to see that.

Posthuman, you gave an interesting philosophical argument there. What you're saying is that since I no longer believe now, then I must currently believe that I never had a relationship with Christ since I currently don't believe he ever existed. I'll admit, this is true. BUT that doesn't change what I did believe at the time I was a Christian. When I was a Christian, I did full-heartedly believe in my relationship with Christ. I had no doubts that God's word was true, that He loved me, that He sent His holy spirit to dwell within me, and all the rest. Where my belief is at now, does not negate where my belief was at then. I can use the Santa Claus analogy again as an example, if you no longer believe in Santa, does that mean you never really believed? (Once again, this is just an example! I am not comparing the two, and I know that when it comes to a relationship with Christ, it goes way beyond believing. It is a living faith that encompasses ones' entire life verses a simple blind belief. I'm just using it for example purposes how future unbelief should have no impact on the genuinity of former belief.)

And that is all for now. Thanks again for the responses.

Big deal. You had "I faith." Salvation doesn't come from our faith. It comes from his faith. Faith in Christ, not faith in us.

Same ole, same ole.The problem is called Arminianism.

 

[stonesoffire]

A very good point, Bill. So many of my Pentecostal friends would be so sad because they didn't "feel the Holy Spirit.". And they didn't know what to think of me, because I was full of joy most of the time, but I didn't get slain in the spirit, or any of the other things they believed were necessary: They didn't see me losing control of myself, so they figured I must be missing something.

Didymous

This post will be off topic I know, but I must address it.

Pentecostals do not lose control of themselves. When God touches you physically, your body will respond..because of the power. If you have ever been shocked by electricity, then you know how sometimes people respond.

Its not always this way...His touch can also be light as a feather, but you still respond. Or you may not feel anything, but you know something else out of the ordinary happened.

We arent looking for experiences as a rule by the way, but worship does tend to bring Holy Spirits presence to our midst.

 

[Katy-follower]

No one can come to God unless he/ she is drawn.

John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Why?

Because of our nature. We are cutoff from God because He is Holy and unapproachable to us because of sin. He comes to us, not the other way around.

You reminded me of this one too...

John 3:19-20: "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed"

 

[Adstar]

Hello,

It has been a while since I've been on this site. Just cleaning up my bookmarks and thought I'd revisit to ask a simple question and see what responses we get.

The question is simple. Do ex-Christians exist? Are there people out there who once had genuine faith in Jesus Christ, but now no longer believe in God? It's an interesting question because different denominations have different starting points on this. Pentecostals will openly admit that such people exist, and have lost their salvation as a result of their denunciation. More Calvinist leaning denominations, like the Baptists, will staunchly deny that such people exist. There's simply no room for genuine exChristians in Calvinist theology.

But before we begin, I guess we need to clarify what it means to be a genuine Christian. For purposes of this discussion, and feel free to comment if you disagree, a genuine Christian is defined as an individual who acknowledged that they have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. They believe in Jesus Christ and what is written in the Bible. They believe Jesus is God, and He died on the cross for us, so that through Him we can be saved from our sin. They profess Jesus as Lord and invite the Holy Spirit to dwell inside them to guide them through life. They develop a repentant heart, where they turn from former sin and feel convicted when commit sin. They love the Lord and are genuine in their faith. This is a true believer.

So is it possible, for a true believer, as defined above, to one day struggle with their faith, for whatever reasons, and eventually lose their faith entirely as a result of that struggle, to the point where they no longer believe God exists?

According to those who claim to be genuine ex-Christians, the answer is an easy yes. A quick search online and you will find several communities of people proclaiming to be just that. Their stories are varied. Some were former missionaries or pastors. Others lost their faith while attending Christian college. Some were pastors kids. They share their testimony about how they came to Christ and their Christian life, testimonies that resemble one of any true believer. But then for one reason or another, a crisis of faith arose in their life, and it ended with them no longer believing.

So why this long-winded topic? Well, while several Christians completely acknowledge the existence of these people, and use them as evidence of how salvation can be lost, there is a large group of Christians who, despite any evidence ex-Christians try to give to prove that they were once genuine, refuse to believe that ex-Christians exist. They're response is quite simple: A true believer would never lose their faith, thus, these people must have never been true believers.

It's a response that's viewed as insulting to the ex-Christian community, as they feel it dismisses them without even hearing them out. Simply by no longer believing now, whatever they believed or experienced before must not have been genuine. End of discussion....

...Or is it? That's what I want to do here. How exactly does the latter dismiss the former? If they themselves were being genuine in their faith at the time, how can that be considered ingenuine? And if you truly believe they were never saved, then does that mean when I prayed as a young child for Jesus to come into my heart, that God said no?

Woops, didn't mean to make it personal. But it is personal. I exist. Living proof that it is very possible to live your life as a genuine follower of Jesus Christ but eventually come to a place where I lost that faith. If you don't agree with that, then let's discuss this, and try to get to the bottom of this tricky topic.

Yes but they came to a point of disagreement with God and they discarded their relationship with God and then came to the point of disbelief in God..

Disbelief is a far more comfortable position then disagreement.. Disagreeing with God still means there is a All powerful God there who is a threat to the one who disagrees with Him.. So they choose to disbelieve that God even exists so as to give them freedom from fear..

But of course God exists and disbelief cannot make Him cease to exist..

 

[Adstar]

I prayed as a young child for Jesus to come into my heart, that God said no?

Just curious what did you expect to happen when ""Jesus came into your heart"" ?

I have never in my life prayed for such a thing to happen..
I just believed the Gospel and was glad i was saved..

 

[Didymous]

Didymous

This post will be off topic I know, but I must address it.

Pentecostals do not lose control of themselves. When God touches you physically, your body will respond..because of the power. If you have ever been shocked by electricity, then you know how sometimes people respond.

Its not always this way...His touch can also be light as a feather, but you still respond. Or you may not feel anything, but you know something else out of the ordinary happened.

We arent looking for experiences as a rule by the way, but worship does tend to bring Holy Spirits presence to our midst.

Maybe you're right, but in all the Pentecostal churches I've been to they do.

 

[maxwel]

Interesting that you wrote this from a third person perspective considering John 3:11.



When you say divine presence are you referring unto the 'Spirit' or the 'Light' since the 'Eternal' is not of this world, which can be easily be disproved by the evidence of something which has always existed, however considering that this universe and everything therein had a beginning, then does not natural itself tells us that it is not eternal.

Thus it is written to search the scriptures, for in them the sinner 'believes' they have eternal life, which is the reason he came to call the sinners to repentance, which is to say to change their mind.

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 5:37-40

Of course many that believe that those who search the scriptures and are the 'they' which testify of him, yet one could also easily believe that the scriptures are the 'they' which testify of the him.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5

So if Moses wrote of him, then howbeit they say they believe his words?

And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. Ex 24:12

At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark. Deut 10:1-2

So wouldn't the truth be an indication of the presence of the LORD?

Zmouth,

My post about "divine presence" was merely ONE argument, one very SPECIFIC argument, which I thought would make a compelling answer to the OP.

My post wasn't intended to be exhaustive, nor was it intended to invalidate other good answers to the OP.



You may well have better answers than mine, and if you do, please add them to this thread just as everyone else is doing.

 

[Zmouth]

Zmouth,

My post about "divine presence" was merely ONE argument, one very SPECIFIC argument, which I thought would make a compelling answer to the OP.

My post wasn't intended to be exhaustive, nor was it intended to invalidate other good answers to the OP.



You may well have better answers than mine, and if you do, please add them to this thread just as everyone else is doing.

What can I say, your focus compelled my post. (See Prov. 20:5)

 

[stonesoffire]

And the OP'er hasn't come back has he?

I think the post about pot stirrer was spot on.

No battles occurred though and his fun was spoiled.

 

[Depleted]

On the basis we have feelings then yes God created humans with feelings and emotions.

But that does not mean that our feelings are the only basis to live our lives.

I'm a woman. I spent many decades blaming my flake outs on PMS, only to discover, now that I don't have PMS, I still flake out! I cannot afford to base my life on feelings. I drive! I wait at the cashier line in crowded grocery stores. I watch politicians talk. I see idiots running their vehicles into crowds. A thug just got out of prison near me because our DA (district attorney, since y'all have barristers) decided a rapper who beats up people and cops, and who cannot get parole means notifying someone when you leave the state, is more important then the people he terrifies. I really can't go by feelings. I'm not a rapper, so wouldn't get a Get Out of Jail (Gaol) Free card.