examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please

[Joseppi]

I have found that a local church can establish rules of order.

But, rules can also hinder.

Again, my experience is that the Holy Ghost being free in an assembly to manifest the life of the body of Christ is not common.

This may seem a bit off subject but may be helpful to consider.

I have come across many pastors and elders that are unaware of things they should be aware of. For example, I have found some that are unable to tell who should occupy particular offices among them, or that were unaware that wolves were near the flock.
How does that happen?
It happens when men in authority are unaware of the leading of the Holy Ghost. And this occurs when men in authority lean on methodology instead of the word proceeding out of the mouth of God.
So, an office holder may be selected by means of noting who is the most naturally gifted rather than by selected by the Holy Ghost. Etc...

To note this in scripture study how in the book of The Acts of the Apostles, the Holy Ghost tends to disrupt a leaning on methodology. Which is a surprising thing to notice.

It turns out that man naturally seeks natural means for achieving supposedly spiritual goals. Which is s no-no. That is, the natural man seeks methodology. A walk through a Christian bookstore shows this.
But, the Spirit of God seldom does things in the same manner, much less as a method, so as to prevent such expectation of methodology.

So, we note that the Holy Ghost manifests after baptism but then also manifests before baptism.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


And note that the magician sought a method.

Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Acts 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

For a method allows man to be in charge rather than the Holy Ghost.

 

[CS1]

I have found that a local church can establish rules of order.

But, rules can also hinder.

Again, my experience is that the Holy Ghost being free in an assembly to manifest the life of the body of Christ is not common.

This may seem a bit off subject but may be helpful to consider.

I have come across many pastors and elders that are unaware of things they should be aware of. For example, I have found some that are unable to tell who should occupy particular offices among them, or that were unaware that wolves were near the flock.
How does that happen?
It happens when men in authority are unaware of the leading of the Holy Ghost. And this occurs when men in authority lean on methodology instead of the word proceeding out of the mouth of God.
So, an office holder may be selected by means of noting who is the most naturally gifted rather than by selected by the Holy Ghost. Etc...

To note this in scripture study how in the book of The Acts of the Apostles, the Holy Ghost tends to disrupt a leaning on methodology. Which is a surprising thing to notice.

It turns out that man naturally seeks natural means for achieving supposedly spiritual goals. Which is s no-no. That is, the natural man seeks methodology. A walk through a Christian bookstore shows this.
But, the Spirit of God seldom does things in the same manner, much less as a method, so as to prevent such expectation of methodology.

So, we note that the Holy Ghost manifests after baptism but then also manifests before baptism.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


And note that the magician sought a method.

Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Acts 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

For a method allows man to be in charge rather than the Holy Ghost.

You are speaking to a very important point, which I too have been saying. The following issues of some have caused many untruths about the Holy Spirits gifting from 1cor 12, 13, and 14. The Areas were issues are:

1. Immaturity
2. Ignorance
3. Unlearned

Now I am going to say something that may shock someJ. The Holy Spirit will not do anything that will cause confusion or create an out of control, disruptive, event. BUT anything the Holy Spirit will do; will always be seen as confusion to the flesh and the unsaved. Many Churches today try to help the Holy Spirit do HIS Job and that is where trouble is created.

 

[notuptome]

You are speaking to a very important point, which I too have been saying. The following issues of some have caused many untruths about the Holy Spirits gifting from 1cor 12, 13, and 14. The Areas were issues are:

1. Immaturity
2. Ignorance
3. Unlearned

Now I am going to say something that may shock someJ. The Holy Spirit will not do anything that will cause confusion or create an out of control, disruptive, event. BUT anything the Holy Spirit will do; will always be seen as confusion to the flesh and the unsaved. Many Churches today try to help the Holy Spirit do HIS Job and that is where trouble is created.

Some churches endeavor to maneuver the Holy Spirit to do what they want instead of expecting the Holy Spirit to minister in complete accord with the word of God.

Same three reasons effect both sides of the matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KelbyofGod]

Wow. Just want to say that actual, polite discussion is NOT what I expected to find in a BDF thread about speaking in tongues. I've seen so much tongues-bashing that I purposefully avoided looking into this particular thread until now.

Yes, I've got speaking in tongues and yes, I'll likely be back to read and join the conversation. I just don't have anything to add at the moment.

Thanks for renewing my hope.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Musicus]

actually you did not provided the verses need to support your claim you made when you said

""We don't really know what was spoken or heard. 2 possibilities. "

That is not the context of Acts 2:6 .

6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.

we know that everyone heard them speak in his own language. Who is the everyone?

verses 8 to 11 tell us

and more than two this we do know Because Acts tell's us.
8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

Yes, How? This question is not answered that I can find, so I should have stated this to start with. This is what we don't know, (other than by the work of the Holy Spirit who was upon the disciples.)

Didn't want to argue the point, but I don't mean the crowd listening, I knew who they were. But the disciples who were speaking, though, did one speak in one language, another in another language and so on, or did they all speak in all the languages at the same time and it was somehow filtered so that Parthians heard them ALL speaking just Parthian, Greeks heard them ALL speaking just Greek etc.? In verse 8 that question is asked "And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?" but what is the answer? How did it work, technically? This question is not answered. How can it be explained scientifically? Can I expect that one person in the Spirit can speak more than one language at the same time? Because that's what 2:6 infers. I try to imagine what I would be hearing had I been there in the crowd, what would it have all sounded like together. May just be a stupid question, really, but I can't help it, I'm a sound engineer.

 

[CS1]

Yes, How? This question is not answered that I can find, so I should have stated this to start with. This is what we don't know, (other than by the work of the Holy Spirit who was upon the disciples.)

Didn't want to argue the point, but I don't mean the crowd listening, I knew who they were. But the disciples who were speaking, though, did one speak in one language, another in another language and so on, or did they all speak in all the languages at the same time and it was somehow filtered so that Parthians heard them ALL speaking just Parthian, Greeks heard them ALL speaking just Greek etc.? In verse 8 that question is asked "And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?" but what is the answer? How did it work, technically? This question is not answered. How can it be explained scientifically? Can I expect that one person in the Spirit can speak more than one language at the same time? Because that's what 2:6 infers. I try to imagine what I would be hearing had I been there in the crowd, what would it have all sounded like together. May just be a stupid question, really, but I can't help it, I'm a sound engineer.

I think too it appears you are suggesting only the deciples did speak that is not what Acts 2 states.

 

[notuptome]

I think too it appears you are suggesting only the deciples did speak that is not what Acts 2 states.

Isn't it curious that who spoke asked to speak in tongues?

I do not find a single account where new converts ever requested to speak in tongues. Today it seems very fashionable for folks to seek to speak in tongues. Not very spontaneous in todays church yet is seemed so in the apostolic church. The Holy Spirit ministering as He willeth. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I have read folks today seem to ask for gifts even coaching to produce some evidences of these gifts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[DJ2]

Wow. Just want to say that actual, polite discussion is NOT what I expected to find in a BDF thread about speaking in tongues. I've seen so much tongues-bashing that I purposefully avoided looking into this particular thread until now.

Yes, I've got speaking in tongues and yes, I'll likely be back to read and join the conversation. I just don't have anything to add at the moment.

Thanks for renewing my hope.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

What do you define as "tongues-bashing"?

 

[Musicus]

I think too it appears you are suggesting only the deciples did speak that is not what Acts 2 states.

At the end of Acts 1 Matthias is added to the 11 Apostles. At the start of Acts 2 they are gathered together in one place. That number comes up again next in Acts 2:14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.


Based on these two numbers it is the 12 Apostles, who were also disciples. I've heard that it could be the 120+/- believers mentioned in Acts 1:15 were also present, but I don't think so because the phrase 'In those days' doesn't specify if the day of Pentecost was included, and I don't think the house they were in could fit that many, but maybe they were outside and just not mentioned here.

In Acts 2:37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” it again appears to be just the 12 Apostles.

I don't see any other references in Acts 2 to who was speaking in tongues that day.

 

[RickyZ]

Isn't it curious that who spoke asked to speak in tongues?

I do not find a single account where new converts ever requested to speak in tongues. Today it seems very fashionable for folks to seek to speak in tongues. Not very spontaneous in todays church yet is seemed so in the apostolic church. The Holy Spirit ministering as He willeth. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I have read folks today seem to ask for gifts even coaching to produce some evidences of these gifts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The Bible does say to seek the gifts... but you're right, there's a lot of it going on for the wrong reasons

 

[notuptome]

The Bible does say to seek the gifts... but you're right, there's a lot of it going on for the wrong reasons

I never really considered that none of those who spoke in tongues in the NT sought to speak in tongues. Now the dishonest sons of Sceva sought to buy the power of the Holy Spirit but they did not fare well in that endeavor.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Waggles]

What do you define as "tongues-bashing"?

You are the best example on this

 

[RickyZ]

I never really considered that none of those who spoke in tongues in the NT sought to speak in tongues. Now the dishonest sons of Sceva sought to buy the power of the Holy Spirit but they did not fare well in that endeavor.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Very true. A good point!

But then again, I'm not aware of anyone in the Bible who resisted speaking in tongues either..?

 

[Didymous]

Very true. A good point!

But then again, I'm not aware of anyone in the Bible who resisted speaking in tongues either..?

I think Simon the sorceror was the one who tried to buy the power-Acts 8:18-19

 

[notuptome]

Very true. A good point!

But then again, I'm not aware of anyone in the Bible who resisted speaking in tongues either..?

How could they?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I think Simon the sorceror was the one who tried to buy the power-Acts 8:18-19

Could be the pain meds.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

How could they?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And ... why would they?

 

[Didymous]

Could be the pain meds.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It happens, I think I made a mistake once.

 

[RickyZ]

It happens, I think I made a mistake once.

I thot I once had too ... but it turned out I was wrong

 

[Didymous]

Yeah! That's the one!