examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please
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Yes, How? This question is not answered that I can find, so I should have stated this to start with. This is what we don't know, (other than by the work of the Holy Spirit who was upon the disciples.)
Didn't want to argue the point, but I don't mean the crowd listening, I knew who they were. But the disciples who were speaking, though, did one speak in one language, another in another language and so on, or did they all speak in all the languages at the same time and it was somehow filtered so that Parthians heard them ALL speaking just Parthian, Greeks heard them ALL speaking just Greek etc.? In verse 8 that question is asked "And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?" but what is the answer? How did it work, technically? This question is not answered. How can it be explained scientifically? Can I expect that one person in the Spirit can speak more than one language at the same time? Because that's what 2:6 infers. I try to imagine what I would be hearing had I been there in the crowd, what would it have all sounded like together. May just be a stupid question, really, but I can't help it, I'm a sound engineer
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Didn't want to argue the point, but I don't mean the crowd listening, I knew who they were. But the disciples who were speaking, though, did one speak in one language, another in another language and so on, or did they all speak in all the languages at the same time and it was somehow filtered so that Parthians heard them ALL speaking just Parthian, Greeks heard them ALL speaking just Greek etc.? In verse 8 that question is asked "And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?" but what is the answer? How did it work, technically? This question is not answered. How can it be explained scientifically? Can I expect that one person in the Spirit can speak more than one language at the same time? Because that's what 2:6 infers. I try to imagine what I would be hearing had I been there in the crowd, what would it have all sounded like together. May just be a stupid question, really, but I can't help it, I'm a sound engineer
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Note: Confounded means “puzzled”, as opposed to “confused”, which is noise.
Which is to say that it is something that was witnessed as truly happening but beyond man’s understanding. (although with, technology man can obtain the same result)
Note: “every man” heard “them” speak in his own language.
So, if you were there you would hear them all speaking in your own language. They would each speak as the Spirit gave them utterance. And you would have to select whom to focus on. As in a crowd of your own nation.
Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Note: 17 distinct languages listed.
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Note: Peter preached to “them.” Jews of all the varieties listed.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Note: 3,000 respondents to Peter’s sermon.
Therefore, Peter speaking in one language was heard by every man in his own language. For 3,000 respondents proves his speech crossed over language barriers.
Technically an perfect translation of Peter’s sermon was accomplished immediately for all hearers. So, 17 kinds of headphone language translators available in enough numbers to provide a correct one for each person present.
A United Nations meeting situation.
Which proves that the last days is a drive towards globalism. And that the Holy Ghost is the true and perfect translator of God’s word, not man.
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DJ2,
My personal definition of tongues-bashing = Arguing with hostility against someone who has or claims to have "speaking in tongues" by resorting to attacks on the person and/or use of passive-aggressiveness and/or cognitive distortions, but not going so far as to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
My personal definition of tongues-bashing = Arguing with hostility against someone who has or claims to have "speaking in tongues" by resorting to attacks on the person and/or use of passive-aggressiveness and/or cognitive distortions, but not going so far as to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Basically it starts with a claim of "tongues" and ends with a "bashing" of the individual(s) and/or group(s) associated with that claim.
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
They were all in one place.
They were all in one accord.
It was then that the Holy Ghost came.
The whole house was filled.
Cloven tongues of fire sat on each of them.
They were all filled with the Holy Ghost.
They all began to speak with tongues than their own language.
The Spirit gave them utterance.
Therefore, a confounding miracle occurred when the whole house was as one body.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
They were all in one place.
They were all in one accord.
It was then that the Holy Ghost came.
The whole house was filled.
Cloven tongues of fire sat on each of them.
They were all filled with the Holy Ghost.
They all began to speak with tongues than their own language.
The Spirit gave them utterance.
Therefore, a confounding miracle occurred when the whole house was as one body.
Thanks for the reply I will try.
A person would have to return to the foundation of tongues, a sign against those who will not hear prophecy, the word of God.
The foundation of the use of tongues in Isaiah 28:11-14 is a sign that confirms their unbelief (no faith) not a sign to confirm a person has the Holy Spirit a believer. But again, the opposite. Somehow or other it got turned upside down and today many use it in respect to sign seekers, the rebellious as those who require a sign before they will commit faith. (the unseen)
Stammering lips are the lips of the Holy Spirit mocking the outward Jew as scornful men as God brings his interpretation in other languages other than the Hebrew .
The word stammering is mocking.
God mocks them with stammering lips because they refuse to hear all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) but rather are those who make the word of God to no effect by their own oral traditions of men as doctrines of men by commandments of men.
For with stammering lips and another tongue willhe speak to this people. To whom he said, this is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Isaiah 28:11-14
No such thing a sign gift that confirms the person has the Holy Spirit(we walk by faith the unseen )the sign confirms they did not have the Holy Spirit .
Like some other doctrines of men, they turn the things of God upside down into the things of men… taking away the understanding God offers through prophecy.
The end of the foundation of tongue is in the next chapter 29
Isaiah 29:16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Again its what the oral tradition of sinful men does make the faith that comes from hearing God without effect taking away his understanding.
Joseppi wrote -
Note: 17 distinct languages listed.
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Note: Peter preached to “them.” Jews of all the varieties listed.
Note: 3,000 respondents to Peter’s sermon.
Therefore, Peter speaking in one language was heard by every man in his own language. For 3,000 respondents proves his speech crossed over language barriers.
The “list” in Acts creates a lot of common misconceptions – If you look at it, it’s not one of languages; it’s a list of places. Many lands, but not as linguistically diverse as one may think.
It has to be remembered that many of these places, even though they were far from each other, had been Hellenized for centuries; Greek had long replaced whatever indigenous language(s) there once were.
Jews, any group of immigrants/displaced people/refugees, etc., tend to live in closely knit communities; one of the ways cultural identity is preserved is via language.
You have to ask the question of “If I were a Jew living in one of those places, what language would I speak?” Or even further, “If I were a Jew and lived in a Jewish community in one of these places, what would the language of my Jewish community be?
Again, many places stretched out all over the place (or idiomatically, “every nation under heaven”), but linguistic diversity just not really part of the picture.
One needs to look at the scenario in a more realistic historical context.
When Peter spoke to the crowd, he likely gave his speech in Aramaic; the language spoken by perhaps as much as 80% of the attendees.
As far as how many were speaking - it was just the twelve; contextual evidence in both Acts 1 and Acts 2 seems to support that it was just the 12, not the 120.
Chapter one ends with the newly formed 12 apostles (i.e. the addition of Matthias to replace Judas). Chapter 2 begins with saying "...they were all with one accord in one place..." It's assumed that the "they" here refers to the 120, but the context goes back to the end of Chapter 1 and refers to the 12. Jesus' command in Chapter 1 concerning this event was to the apostles, not the 120.
There is other contextual "evidence" in Chapter 2 as well.
Note: 17 distinct languages listed.
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Note: Peter preached to “them.” Jews of all the varieties listed.
Note: 3,000 respondents to Peter’s sermon.
Therefore, Peter speaking in one language was heard by every man in his own language. For 3,000 respondents proves his speech crossed over language barriers.
The “list” in Acts creates a lot of common misconceptions – If you look at it, it’s not one of languages; it’s a list of places. Many lands, but not as linguistically diverse as one may think.
It has to be remembered that many of these places, even though they were far from each other, had been Hellenized for centuries; Greek had long replaced whatever indigenous language(s) there once were.
Jews, any group of immigrants/displaced people/refugees, etc., tend to live in closely knit communities; one of the ways cultural identity is preserved is via language.
You have to ask the question of “If I were a Jew living in one of those places, what language would I speak?” Or even further, “If I were a Jew and lived in a Jewish community in one of these places, what would the language of my Jewish community be?
Again, many places stretched out all over the place (or idiomatically, “every nation under heaven”), but linguistic diversity just not really part of the picture.
One needs to look at the scenario in a more realistic historical context.
When Peter spoke to the crowd, he likely gave his speech in Aramaic; the language spoken by perhaps as much as 80% of the attendees.
As far as how many were speaking - it was just the twelve; contextual evidence in both Acts 1 and Acts 2 seems to support that it was just the 12, not the 120.
Chapter one ends with the newly formed 12 apostles (i.e. the addition of Matthias to replace Judas). Chapter 2 begins with saying "...they were all with one accord in one place..." It's assumed that the "they" here refers to the 120, but the context goes back to the end of Chapter 1 and refers to the 12. Jesus' command in Chapter 1 concerning this event was to the apostles, not the 120.
There is other contextual "evidence" in Chapter 2 as well.
I suppose that makes sense to you, because you are reading it through "your" glasses. It says what you want it to say.
If you read the scripture the way it was written, without trying to bend it any, it's really pretty plain. The disciples were speaking in quite a few different languages, or dialects, and the people there were amazed. All those Galileans were speaking in the languages that the various regional folks understood.... in their OWN individual language.
If the Galileans were speaking the same "Hellenistic" language you choose to believe they all spoke, there would have been no amazement... no accusation that the disciples were drunk.
The lengths to which some people will go never ceases to amaze me.
You know..... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
If you read the scripture the way it was written, without trying to bend it any, it's really pretty plain. The disciples were speaking in quite a few different languages, or dialects, and the people there were amazed. All those Galileans were speaking in the languages that the various regional folks understood.... in their OWN individual language.
If the Galileans were speaking the same "Hellenistic" language you choose to believe they all spoke, there would have been no amazement... no accusation that the disciples were drunk.
The lengths to which some people will go never ceases to amaze me.
You know..... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
You have to take the context of chapter one. verse 15 says :
[FONT="]And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples[c](altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus
Nothing in Chapter 1 or 2 of Acts says only the Apostles were there. And the first Chapter does say 120 in ver 15 and it would appear they did not leave why? Because Jesus instructed(commanded) them to stay . Acts 1:4
Acts 1:14 "[/FONT] [FONT="]These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication,[/FONT][FONT="][b][/FONT][FONT="] with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers." Nothing says they left.[/FONT]
God does all the speaking when it comes to His prophecy. He is not served by human hands in that way or any way. Just as he put his words on the lips of an ass as that kind of ceremonial unclean animal to represent natural uncovered man which did work to restrainthe madness of that false prophet Balaam in the same way he put hisinterpretation on Peters lips . as many langue’s that were there. They heard the interpretation as the revelation from God. It was not a private interpretation of Peter.
It was a sign to the unbelieving Jew who would not heed to prophecy as the final authority in matters of faith. But they would not hear what the Spirit was saying to the church just as today…..making it as it is written without effect.
No outward sign for the one that does trust prophecy as the one sourceof Christian faith (Christ’s) not of our own selves.
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I do not see your point supported Biblically . You only provided an opinon I say that respectfully, . And no one is suggesting new converts requested to speak in tongues. I do not agree with the wording fashionable either in context to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. THe word of God is very clear
1cor 14:1
" [FONT="]Pursue love, and desire spiritual [/FONT]gifts,(that is tongues too) but especially that you may prophesy." Notices if your idea of fashsionable & spontaneous were Bibilical chapter 14 :2 should have stopped at verse 1.
But it did not Verse 2 goes right into the gift of Toungues .
The Word of God says to desire gifts . Those who try and coach the gift , I agree should not do so.
However, GOD HAS GIVEN MUCH GRACE TO THIS area. Still with the well intented people yet wrong to try and make someone speak in tongues, does not nulify the gifts for today.
1cor 14:1
" [FONT="]Pursue love, and desire spiritual [/FONT]gifts,(that is tongues too) but especially that you may prophesy." Notices if your idea of fashsionable & spontaneous were Bibilical chapter 14 :2 should have stopped at verse 1.
But it did not Verse 2 goes right into the gift of Toungues .
The Word of God says to desire gifts . Those who try and coach the gift , I agree should not do so.
However, GOD HAS GIVEN MUCH GRACE TO THIS area. Still with the well intented people yet wrong to try and make someone speak in tongues, does not nulify the gifts for today.