Why do Christians struggle to reconcile Law and Grace?

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#1
A lot of Christians believe that there is a conflict between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ, and that is probably because the teaching on the Law among Christians has been either done improperly or inadequately.

What many Christians fail to grasp is that it was the Lord Jesus Christ who appeared to Moses as “I AM THAT I AM”. It was the pre-incarnate Word who wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone on Mount Sinai, and now writes them by the Spirit on the hearts and minds of those who have been born of the Spirit.

What many believers fail to grasp is that the Old Covenant (as spelled out in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) consisted of several groups of laws, some of which are eternal, and others of which were applicable only while the Old Covenant was in force.


The primary laws in the Old Covenant were the Ten Commandments. These are moral, spiritual, and eternal, and carried over into the New Covenant. While the Ten Commandments condemn sinners and drive them to Christ, the Law itself is spiritual and good, as we are told in Scripture.

JEREMIAH 31

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The Ten Commandments have been integrated into the Law of Christ, since it is Christ who summed them up and said that the two greatest commandments are to love God perfectly and to love your neighbor as you love yourself. So the Law of Love is indeed the Ten Commandments any way you look at it. The important point to note is that it is only by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that a Christian can love God and love others with AGAPE love.

But there are also other groups of laws, some of which can still be applied in the civil and criminal laws of the land, some of which are moral and ethical and can still be applied in the lives of Christians, some are sacrificial, and connected with the Levitical priesthood, and have therefore become null and void through the sacrifice of Christ, and some are ceremonial, and were therefore “types and shadows” (meats, drinks, new moons, holy days, Sabbaths).

The issue of which of the laws of Moses should apply to the Church came up early in the history of the Church. And it is the Holy Spirit who ruled thus:
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; [1] That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, [2] and from blood, [3] and from things strangled, [4] and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Acts 15:28,29)

Some people mistakenly (or ignorantly) claim that since Paul said that idols are nothing, the first ruling does not apply. But a careful study of 1 Corinthians 8:1-13, says the exact opposite:
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, [stumble and sin] I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. (v. 13).

So, even while Christians are under grace, it is grace which requires that we follow the instructions given in the New Testament. Grace is not equal to Antinomianism. We are saved by grace so that we may live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Tit 2:12).

 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
48
#2
If you want to know and see Jesus fulfilling the law, and establishing the laws of God. then read everything in red writing. Starting in Matthew when he began to teach his disciples . You will see the modifications he made in the law. Follow the writing in red and you will do well.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#3
Great post a true witness againstg the "mystery of iniquity"I think a big part of it is just like satan decieved in the garden that humans could live wthout obeying YHWH, it is the same today.

Revelation 12:9, "And the great dragon was thrown out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who leads all the world astray. He was thrown to the earth, and his messengers were thrown out with him."

For we can see satan figths aginst those who have faith in Messiah AND guard the Commands:

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of
יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושעMessiah."

Scripture also tells us the saints/set apart ones have faith in Messiah AND guard the Commands:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

[/FONT]

The modern battle cry is to demonize any who would dare say His Commands are right and to be followed, need I remind anyone of Rev 12:9? We are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, yet this is not an excuse for disobedience.

They say "the Law is done away!"

The Messiah says different:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
[/FONT]

They say "you are a self justified lawyer, pharisee, sinless perfectionist"

The Word says it is love:


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

They say "it is a burden, His Commands are heavy"

The word say different:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Bottom line:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 8:20, "To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."


[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#4
ANother issuse is warned of DIRECTLY is the Word, people twist Paul's wirtings into Lawlessness:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmiĕn.”[/FONT]
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#5
If you want to know and see Jesus fulfilling the law, and establishing the laws of God. then read everything in red writing. Starting in Matthew when he began to teach his disciples . You will see the modifications he made in the law. Follow the writing in red and you will do well.
In trying to "follow the writing in red" be sure not to miss the gospel Jesus gave all of us.

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#7
ANother issuse is warned of DIRECTLY is the Word, people twist Paul's wirtings into Lawlessness:

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmiĕn.”


I have never heard anyone saying grace is a license to sin except when those still in bondage to the law use it to disparage those who have been set free.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#8
ANother issuse is warned of DIRECTLY is the Word, people twist Paul's wirtings into Lawlessness:

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmiĕn.”
I have never heard anyone saying grace is a license to sin except when those still in bondage to the law use it to disparage those who have been set free.

and I have never heard anyone say potato chips are healthy..

both of these statements have nothing to do with what I posted.

The Passage I posted was Pater warning that people will read Paul's writings and use them to throw away the Law or be "Lawless"

Obedience to His Commands is not "bondage to the Law"

This is comical. Even calling obedience "bondage" is the type of teaching that is mystery of iniquity like

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Oh and the REAL Messiah sets people free from sin and the ways of the world... If your Messiah set you free from His Instructions I think you have a problem...
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#9
In trying to "follow the writing in red" be sure not to miss the gospel Jesus gave all of us.

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
and who wassent to the Gentiles?

Peter andall the 12 were BY THE MESSIAH's OWN WORDS:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]nations” is word #G1484 ἔθνος ethnos (eth'-nos) n., 1. a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe., 2. (specially) a foreign (non-Jewish) one, Gentiles., 3. (usually, by implication) pagan., [probably from G1486], KJV: Gentile, heathen, nation, people, Root(s): G1486[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yet Paul says Peter was sent to the Jews:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:7-8, “In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised. For the one who worked through Peter by making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me by sending me to the Gentiles.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]However Peter says he was sent to the Gentiles:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Timothy 2:7, "For this reason I was appointed to be an announcer, an apostle, and a faithful and true teacher of the gentiles. (I am telling you the truth. I am not lying.)"[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#10
I have never seen so many people that claim the Messiah try to destroy His words

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘[/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
48
#11
If you don't understand Jesus, you will not understand Paul.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#12
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#13
and I have never heard anyone say potato chips are healthy..

both of these statements have nothing to do with what I posted.

The Passage I posted was Pater warning that people will read Paul's writings and use them to throw away the Law or be "Lawless"

Obedience to His Commands is not "bondage to the Law"

This is comical. Even calling obedience "bondage" is the type of teaching that is mystery of iniquity like

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Oh and the REAL Messiah sets people free from sin and the ways of the world... If your Messiah set you free from His Instructions I think you have a problem...
I quoted your words in my post "ANother issuse is warned of DIRECTLY is the Word, people twist Paul's wirtings into Lawlessness:"

Also, obedience is believing we are who God says we are because He made us new creations. Saying we must follow the law to be saved or stay saved is disagreeing with God's Word and while it sounds logical and humble it is actually a lack of obedience and quite arrogant.

We can believe what we see, think or feel or we can be obedient and believe God.

The Word also says we can not do both...

Romans 10:2-4
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
 
Last edited:

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
113
#14
Why do Christians struggle with this? We don't. Not everyone. Perhaps it's a big issue to some but not so much with others.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
#15
I have never heard anyone saying grace is a license to sin except when those still in bondage to the law use it to disparage those who have been set free.
they don't ''actually SAY 'grace is a licence to sin'...but stating you are set free from the law is saying ''just that ''...you are without law...lawless! what else can it mean ???
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#16
they don't ''actually SAY 'grace is a licence to sin'...but stating you are set free from the law is saying ''just that ''...you are without law...lawless! what else can it mean ???
Romans 8:3-4 King James Version (KJV)

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


It means I am free because I have been given the righteousness of God through Christ. No amount of law abiding any human other than Jesus is capable of can gain me this righteousness, it is God's doing.
 
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Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,582
3,616
113
#17
A lot of Christians believe that there is a conflict between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ, and that is probably because the teaching on the Law among Christians has been either done improperly or inadequately.

What many Christians fail to grasp is that it was the Lord Jesus Christ who appeared to Moses as “I AM THAT I AM”. It was the pre-incarnate Word who wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone on Mount Sinai, and now writes them by the Spirit on the hearts and minds of those who have been born of the Spirit.

What many believers fail to grasp is that the Old Covenant (as spelled out in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) consisted of several groups of laws, some of which are eternal, and others of which were applicable only while the Old Covenant was in force.


The primary laws in the Old Covenant were the Ten Commandments. These are moral, spiritual, and eternal, and carried over into the New Covenant. While the Ten Commandments condemn sinners and drive them to Christ, the Law itself is spiritual and good, as we are told in Scripture.

JEREMIAH 31

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The Ten Commandments have been integrated into the Law of Christ, since it is Christ who summed them up and said that the two greatest commandments are to love God perfectly and to love your neighbor as you love yourself. So the Law of Love is indeed the Ten Commandments any way you look at it. The important point to note is that it is only by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that a Christian can love God and love others with AGAPE love.

But there are also other groups of laws, some of which can still be applied in the civil and criminal laws of the land, some of which are moral and ethical and can still be applied in the lives of Christians, some are sacrificial, and connected with the Levitical priesthood, and have therefore become null and void through the sacrifice of Christ, and some are ceremonial, and were therefore “types and shadows” (meats, drinks, new moons, holy days, Sabbaths).

The issue of which of the laws of Moses should apply to the Church came up early in the history of the Church. And it is the Holy Spirit who ruled thus:
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; [1] That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, [2] and from blood, [3] and from things strangled, [4] and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Acts 15:28,29)

Some people mistakenly (or ignorantly) claim that since Paul said that idols are nothing, the first ruling does not apply. But a careful study of 1 Corinthians 8:1-13, says the exact opposite:
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, [stumble and sin] I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. (v. 13).

So, even while Christians are under grace, it is grace which requires that we follow the instructions given in the New Testament. Grace is not equal to Antinomianism. We are saved by grace so that we may live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Tit 2:12).

What is your definition of Antinomianism ? please be detailed if you choose to reply..
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#18
Eating meat with blood and from strangled animals has no relevance to the Christian walk.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#19
I have never heard anyone saying grace is a license to sin except when those still in bondage to the law use it to disparage those who have been set free.
Saying behavior doesn't matter to salvation is license to sin.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#20
So, even while Christians are under grace, it is grace which requires that we follow the instructions given in the New Testament. Grace is not equal to Antinomianism. We are saved by grace so that we may live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Tit 2:12).
With godly sense, not like a law book.