examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please
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RickyZ,
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. <--a miracle of speech, not of hearing
Gift of diversities of tongues = speaker speaks (by Holy Ghost unction) in earthly languages that he/she has not learned.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. <--a miracle of speech, not of hearing
Gift of diversities of tongues = speaker speaks (by Holy Ghost unction) in earthly languages that he/she has not learned.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Please forgive the length: ...
And this is where Kelby takes off his "let's do scriptural battle" hat, and would rather implead human-to-human...and in some ways I'll gladly make myself vulnerable to attack...Partly because I know that at the end of the day God will back me up, pick me up, heal my wounds if any are given, strengthen me, and set me on the good course,... and Partly because in no biblical account do I see the Holy Ghost being poured out at a time of battle...the 4 recorded outpourings were at times of peaceful agreement and vulnerability.
Acts 2 they were "in one accord"; Acts 10 =vulnerable situation & Holy Ghost comes where agreement is; And in Acts 8 and 19 he came at laying on of hands (If someone is close enough to lay hands, they are close enough that either party could seriously hurt the other if they so chose).
When it comes to "speaking in tongues" in the New testament (especially what it’s like, what it sounds or sounded like, how it happens, or at first WHY he chose it) is one occasion where I don't try to prove the point using a bunch of scriptures and logical reasoning. Not that I'm unable to use scripture, wisdom and logic..Feel free to check out my recent posts if you'd like, as I'm rather proud of what God has taught me in those areas.
It's just that the reality of speaking in tongues is that it defies our logical reasoning. To use a word Garee pointed out regarding stammering lips, but meant in a different way, ...speaking in tongues MOCKS our logic.
And I get it… I understand why people have a hard time with the idea that we’re saying “Hey, when you receive the Holy Ghost you’ll speak in unintelligible languages”...and that “GOD gives it that way”. That just seems foolish to how we think of an all-knowing God.
Yet even Jesus showed this aspect of God in what he required of his disciples...requiring the 12 to submit to something they didn’t understand, and it was a deal-breaker if they wouldn’t submit to it...and only promising them an understanding of it AFTER they were obedient and received what he was offering. John 13:7&8 specifically.
Receiving the Holy Ghost (comes w/tongues) is like that...and that’s kinda why some people need prayers, and perhaps even the laying on of hands, to be able to receive it. I was one of those people, not for needing laying on of hands, but it was hard for me because I consider myself a very analytical person. I think. I decide what I’ll say. Then I say it.
But the Holy Ghost doesn’t work like that. It doesn’t come through our brain like normal words…WE don’t provide the words that are to be spoken. God provides the “words”. We just let out (so to speak). THAT’s the part I struggled with. They were telling me “just let it out” and I’m like “Just let WHAT out?! And what do you MEAN just let it out??”
NOTE: that’s where all the “How-to” videos come from… from people trying to help people past that hurdle. And it’s why laying on of hands was used (but I won’t explain that now).
So in my case...:
After struggling with it for a while (right there in the baptismal tub), someone finally says “Try saying this..” and rattles off a ‘sentence’ in tongues. Again, being analytical, I figured I could simply repeat the syllables I’d just heard. But when I did, some of them came out differently...which was curious to me...because I hadn’t intended to say those syllables...and I really wondered where they’d come from and how did they get in that sentence?
So that’s all I had for 1-3 months… just one ‘sentence’...that from my perspective was handed to me by my pastor… So I’m freaking out (for the entire 1-3 months) thinking I don’t have what I need, and desperately praying. But someone said “Don’t worry, Just use what you have and God will give you more.”
So I did (praying OFTEN) until one day I was praying (out loud), using that ‘sentence’ over and over, laying on my bed...until my mind stopped hyperfocusing, until eventually I was relaxed and just kind of looking around my room thinking about what was on the calendar in the corner...until I remembered that “WAIT...I was praying.” and when I turned my focus back to what I was doing, I realized “...and I’m STILL praying!!” only now, instead of that one ‘sentence’ my mind was familiar with, I was now speaking fluently in tongues. That’s when I realized it basically bypasses the brain (or as someone says, it goes straight to the speech center and we decide whether or not to allow it (on most occasions))….and I’ve been able to do it ever since.
NOW… before anyone jumps on the “We’re not supposed to use vain repititions” thing, please consider that, according to the scriptures, there are some in heaven who “rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come”. If they are OK repeating themselves all day and night, I’m not worried if someone tries to judge me for (at one point in my life) spending a few hours a day repeating something...done as an act of faith... as a babe in Christ.
That's all for this post. You may pose questions or comment as you see fit.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
And this is where Kelby takes off his "let's do scriptural battle" hat, and would rather implead human-to-human...and in some ways I'll gladly make myself vulnerable to attack...Partly because I know that at the end of the day God will back me up, pick me up, heal my wounds if any are given, strengthen me, and set me on the good course,... and Partly because in no biblical account do I see the Holy Ghost being poured out at a time of battle...the 4 recorded outpourings were at times of peaceful agreement and vulnerability.
Acts 2 they were "in one accord"; Acts 10 =vulnerable situation & Holy Ghost comes where agreement is; And in Acts 8 and 19 he came at laying on of hands (If someone is close enough to lay hands, they are close enough that either party could seriously hurt the other if they so chose).
When it comes to "speaking in tongues" in the New testament (especially what it’s like, what it sounds or sounded like, how it happens, or at first WHY he chose it) is one occasion where I don't try to prove the point using a bunch of scriptures and logical reasoning. Not that I'm unable to use scripture, wisdom and logic..Feel free to check out my recent posts if you'd like, as I'm rather proud of what God has taught me in those areas.
It's just that the reality of speaking in tongues is that it defies our logical reasoning. To use a word Garee pointed out regarding stammering lips, but meant in a different way, ...speaking in tongues MOCKS our logic.
And I get it… I understand why people have a hard time with the idea that we’re saying “Hey, when you receive the Holy Ghost you’ll speak in unintelligible languages”...and that “GOD gives it that way”. That just seems foolish to how we think of an all-knowing God.
Yet even Jesus showed this aspect of God in what he required of his disciples...requiring the 12 to submit to something they didn’t understand, and it was a deal-breaker if they wouldn’t submit to it...and only promising them an understanding of it AFTER they were obedient and received what he was offering. John 13:7&8 specifically.
Receiving the Holy Ghost (comes w/tongues) is like that...and that’s kinda why some people need prayers, and perhaps even the laying on of hands, to be able to receive it. I was one of those people, not for needing laying on of hands, but it was hard for me because I consider myself a very analytical person. I think. I decide what I’ll say. Then I say it.
But the Holy Ghost doesn’t work like that. It doesn’t come through our brain like normal words…WE don’t provide the words that are to be spoken. God provides the “words”. We just let out (so to speak). THAT’s the part I struggled with. They were telling me “just let it out” and I’m like “Just let WHAT out?! And what do you MEAN just let it out??”
NOTE: that’s where all the “How-to” videos come from… from people trying to help people past that hurdle. And it’s why laying on of hands was used (but I won’t explain that now).
So in my case...:
After struggling with it for a while (right there in the baptismal tub), someone finally says “Try saying this..” and rattles off a ‘sentence’ in tongues. Again, being analytical, I figured I could simply repeat the syllables I’d just heard. But when I did, some of them came out differently...which was curious to me...because I hadn’t intended to say those syllables...and I really wondered where they’d come from and how did they get in that sentence?
So that’s all I had for 1-3 months… just one ‘sentence’...that from my perspective was handed to me by my pastor… So I’m freaking out (for the entire 1-3 months) thinking I don’t have what I need, and desperately praying. But someone said “Don’t worry, Just use what you have and God will give you more.”
So I did (praying OFTEN) until one day I was praying (out loud), using that ‘sentence’ over and over, laying on my bed...until my mind stopped hyperfocusing, until eventually I was relaxed and just kind of looking around my room thinking about what was on the calendar in the corner...until I remembered that “WAIT...I was praying.” and when I turned my focus back to what I was doing, I realized “...and I’m STILL praying!!” only now, instead of that one ‘sentence’ my mind was familiar with, I was now speaking fluently in tongues. That’s when I realized it basically bypasses the brain (or as someone says, it goes straight to the speech center and we decide whether or not to allow it (on most occasions))….and I’ve been able to do it ever since.
NOW… before anyone jumps on the “We’re not supposed to use vain repititions” thing, please consider that, according to the scriptures, there are some in heaven who “rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come”. If they are OK repeating themselves all day and night, I’m not worried if someone tries to judge me for (at one point in my life) spending a few hours a day repeating something...done as an act of faith... as a babe in Christ.
That's all for this post. You may pose questions or comment as you see fit.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Hi Shrume, so how People who have the Gift of speaking in tongues are unable to speak in tongues? Many of you tonguespeakers claim, that it comes over you to speak in tongue and that you cant Controls it. If you claim, that all believers got his Gift, how is it then, that these cant do it. Bcause they cant controlle it.
Dont tell me they have the wrong teaching. When I became a believer, I only Read the Bible. And I had very soon contact to pentacostels. And they told me also what i had to do to speak in tongues. But this was strange to me. The Holy Spirit in me says this is wrong. I know from beginning of my life as Follower of Jesus I knew when an other Spirit is behind a teaching. And behind the teaching of the pentcostalism and the charismatics I have the same speaking from the Holy Spirit that it is wrong as when I Think to Cult like mormons ore JW. There is an different Spirit behind.
And concern to the Acts Events ( 2,8,10,19) the context of these Events clear explain Why these Events taking place. And this was clear in christianity Till the pentecostal movement startet in 1900.
My expierience with the charismatic movement today in my place is, if you are not Open for this teaching then you are out and not a real christian. The leaders in my Church are Open for and charismatic leader in Germany among the RCC. He proclaimes in one Side the Gospel in a Good Way in the other Side he supports füll the Doctrine of the RCC. For me a Thing what is not possible. Ore would you Way the Holy Spirit would agree with the RCC Doctrine. And also not less pentecostals are Open for the RCC Doctrine. Are they lead from the Holy Spirit?
So you know who leads you in speaking in tongues, if you dont have the controle and dont know what you pray?
Dont tell me they have the wrong teaching. When I became a believer, I only Read the Bible. And I had very soon contact to pentacostels. And they told me also what i had to do to speak in tongues. But this was strange to me. The Holy Spirit in me says this is wrong. I know from beginning of my life as Follower of Jesus I knew when an other Spirit is behind a teaching. And behind the teaching of the pentcostalism and the charismatics I have the same speaking from the Holy Spirit that it is wrong as when I Think to Cult like mormons ore JW. There is an different Spirit behind.
And concern to the Acts Events ( 2,8,10,19) the context of these Events clear explain Why these Events taking place. And this was clear in christianity Till the pentecostal movement startet in 1900.
My expierience with the charismatic movement today in my place is, if you are not Open for this teaching then you are out and not a real christian. The leaders in my Church are Open for and charismatic leader in Germany among the RCC. He proclaimes in one Side the Gospel in a Good Way in the other Side he supports füll the Doctrine of the RCC. For me a Thing what is not possible. Ore would you Way the Holy Spirit would agree with the RCC Doctrine. And also not less pentecostals are Open for the RCC Doctrine. Are they lead from the Holy Spirit?
So you know who leads you in speaking in tongues, if you dont have the controle and dont know what you pray?
God speaking by putting His God inspired words in the earsof whatever language of any nation he chooses as prophecy has ceased. God is nolonger brining any new prophecy. The last new before he sealed up the possibilityis written in the book of Revelation.
Why go above that which is written? Are we to promoteprivate revelations as do the Catholics or was that false zeal (false prophecy) reformed during the reformation?
The gift is simply not available.Prophecy in respect to the whole or perfect book of prophecy(God's word) is.
The fruit of our born-again spirit is self-control, under the control of His will… not out control as in no control . Were men mumble andmake noises with no meaning.
That would be the fruitlessness of our human spirit, of the flesh, as those who require a sign before they will commit faith.
It’s what the apostate Jews sought after as if there was such a thing as a “sign gift”, inorder to confirm a person has believed something rather than a sign that pointsto those who will believe scripture alone, not seen, a contrite heart that desires to do the will of God..
It’s the same kind of out of control phenomena of fallingback slain in the spirit. Which is another sign of un-belief (no faith). Fallingback or backward is a sign men are under the fiery judgement of God.
The Holy Spirit takes away the confusion and does not add more. Men as the things thereof add oral traditions.
That would be the fruitlessness of our human spirit, of the flesh, as those who require a sign before they will commit faith.
It’s what the apostate Jews sought after as if there was such a thing as a “sign gift”, inorder to confirm a person has believed something rather than a sign that pointsto those who will believe scripture alone, not seen, a contrite heart that desires to do the will of God..
It’s the same kind of out of control phenomena of fallingback slain in the spirit. Which is another sign of un-belief (no faith). Fallingback or backward is a sign men are under the fiery judgement of God.
The Holy Spirit takes away the confusion and does not add more. Men as the things thereof add oral traditions.
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The Holy Spirit brings self control by giving us words with meaning easy to understand . The out of control doctrines of those who require a sign before they believe are under the sign that points to unbeliever.
Signs are designed to point to those who rebel... throughout the scriptures .Prophecy the clear understanding of God's interpretation to those who hear what the Spirit is saying to the church. No outward sign but inwardly of the Spirit a new heart that desires to do the will of God that works in those who do believe. We walk by faith the unseen eternal not seen And not by sight the temporal .The Kingdom of God is not of this world.
Signs are designed to point to those who rebel... throughout the scriptures .Prophecy the clear understanding of God's interpretation to those who hear what the Spirit is saying to the church. No outward sign but inwardly of the Spirit a new heart that desires to do the will of God that works in those who do believe. We walk by faith the unseen eternal not seen And not by sight the temporal .The Kingdom of God is not of this world.
With respect to speaking, the Holy Spirit certainly can and does give people the spiritual ‘strength’ (for lack of a better way of putting it) to speak out with authority concerning God. The Holy Spirit can inspire people to break through the social norms of how to deliver said message (as what happened on Pentecost), and the Holy Spirit can certainly even inspire people on what to say; but, the Holy Spirit does not control/dictate (that’s a bit strong a way to put it – I don’t mean it with any negative connotations) what language the person uses to say it.
Modern ‘tongues’ are all the ‘speaker’; an entirely self-created phenomenon. Biblical ‘tongues’, i.e. ‘languages’, were just that; real, rational language(s) – not always ones that were known/spoken by the listeners, but always known by the speaker (their native language).
Modern ‘tongues’ are all the ‘speaker’; an entirely self-created phenomenon. Biblical ‘tongues’, i.e. ‘languages’, were just that; real, rational language(s) – not always ones that were known/spoken by the listeners, but always known by the speaker (their native language).
Wolfwint,
In simplest terms, then they need to seek God until he gives it to them...and the church should be seeking(praying) with them until he gives it to them.
That's what the Apostles had to do. They had to tarry(stay, wait, don't leave) in Jerusalem until they got it themselves (Acts 1&2)... (Do you think they weren't praying, asking and seeking when they didn't even know exactly what to expect?)
Then when the word of God reached Samaria through Philip in Acts 8:5-14 those people were able to believe, receive the word and even got baptized yet none of them were able to receive the Holy Ghost until Peter and John came and laid hands (in prayer) on them (verse 17).
And the same need to have help was recorded in the Acts 19 account where the 'certain disciples' were able to accept the more-correct doctrine and were baptized accordingly, but it wasn't until the laying on of hands (being assisted in prayer) were they able to receive the Holy Ghost and start speaking in tongues.
Only in the Acts 10 (Cornelius) account was the Holy Ghost (with tongues) poured out seemingly without much struggle, but even then the angel testified concerning Cornelius that "Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God". In other words he had a bunch of prayer put in and God was saying it's time for that prayer to do something for him.
Peter (talking about the speaking in tongues poured out upon those in the upper room) said that this was not just a GIFT (something given of love, rather than earned)...he clarified it was also a PROMISE (something you have a RIGHT to receive)...And it is for YOU, your children and AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.
(Most) People who are so adamantly saying that you need to get this are desperately wanting you to get what's available to you, NOT to try to make themselves seem personally superior..(Yes, that's why I emphasized “most” people)... and they realize that if you don’t see the difference and significance between “what you have now” and “what is actually promised to you” there’s not a likelihood that you will feel the need to seek until you receive.
As for whether tongues is actually REQUIRED… We can explore that in another post (same thread). I think this post is long enough already.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
In simplest terms, then they need to seek God until he gives it to them...and the church should be seeking(praying) with them until he gives it to them.
That's what the Apostles had to do. They had to tarry(stay, wait, don't leave) in Jerusalem until they got it themselves (Acts 1&2)... (Do you think they weren't praying, asking and seeking when they didn't even know exactly what to expect?)
Then when the word of God reached Samaria through Philip in Acts 8:5-14 those people were able to believe, receive the word and even got baptized yet none of them were able to receive the Holy Ghost until Peter and John came and laid hands (in prayer) on them (verse 17).
And the same need to have help was recorded in the Acts 19 account where the 'certain disciples' were able to accept the more-correct doctrine and were baptized accordingly, but it wasn't until the laying on of hands (being assisted in prayer) were they able to receive the Holy Ghost and start speaking in tongues.
Only in the Acts 10 (Cornelius) account was the Holy Ghost (with tongues) poured out seemingly without much struggle, but even then the angel testified concerning Cornelius that "Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God". In other words he had a bunch of prayer put in and God was saying it's time for that prayer to do something for him.
Peter (talking about the speaking in tongues poured out upon those in the upper room) said that this was not just a GIFT (something given of love, rather than earned)...he clarified it was also a PROMISE (something you have a RIGHT to receive)...And it is for YOU, your children and AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.
(Most) People who are so adamantly saying that you need to get this are desperately wanting you to get what's available to you, NOT to try to make themselves seem personally superior..(Yes, that's why I emphasized “most” people)... and they realize that if you don’t see the difference and significance between “what you have now” and “what is actually promised to you” there’s not a likelihood that you will feel the need to seek until you receive.
As for whether tongues is actually REQUIRED… We can explore that in another post (same thread). I think this post is long enough already.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Wolfwint,
In simplest terms, then they need to seek God until he gives it to them...and the church should be seeking(praying) with them until he gives it to them.
That's what the Apostles had to do. They had to tarry(stay, wait, don't leave) in Jerusalem until they got it themselves (Acts 1&2)... (Do you think they weren't praying, asking and seeking when they didn't even know exactly what to expect?)
Then when the word of God reached Samaria through Philip in Acts 8:5-14 those people were able to believe, receive the word and even got baptized yet none of them were able to receive the Holy Ghost until Peter and John came and laid hands (in prayer) on them (verse 17).
And the same need to have help was recorded in the Acts 19 account where the 'certain disciples' were able to accept the more-correct doctrine and were baptized accordingly, but it wasn't until the laying on of hands (being assisted in prayer) were they able to receive the Holy Ghost and start speaking in tongues.
Only in the Acts 10 (Cornelius) account was the Holy Ghost (with tongues) poured out seemingly without much struggle, but even then the angel testified concerning Cornelius that "Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God". In other words he had a bunch of prayer put in and God was saying it's time for that prayer to do something for him.
Peter (talking about the speaking in tongues poured out upon those in the upper room) said that this was not just a GIFT (something given of love, rather than earned)...he clarified it was also a PROMISE (something you have a RIGHT to receive)...And it is for YOU, your children and AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.
(Most) People who are so adamantly saying that you need to get this are desperately wanting you to get what's available to you, NOT to try to make themselves seem personally superior..(Yes, that's why I emphasized “most” people)... and they realize that if you don’t see the difference and significance between “what you have now” and “what is actually promised to you” there’s not a likelihood that you will feel the need to seek until you receive.
As for whether tongues is actually REQUIRED… We can explore that in another post (same thread). I think this post is long enough already.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
In simplest terms, then they need to seek God until he gives it to them...and the church should be seeking(praying) with them until he gives it to them.
That's what the Apostles had to do. They had to tarry(stay, wait, don't leave) in Jerusalem until they got it themselves (Acts 1&2)... (Do you think they weren't praying, asking and seeking when they didn't even know exactly what to expect?)
Then when the word of God reached Samaria through Philip in Acts 8:5-14 those people were able to believe, receive the word and even got baptized yet none of them were able to receive the Holy Ghost until Peter and John came and laid hands (in prayer) on them (verse 17).
And the same need to have help was recorded in the Acts 19 account where the 'certain disciples' were able to accept the more-correct doctrine and were baptized accordingly, but it wasn't until the laying on of hands (being assisted in prayer) were they able to receive the Holy Ghost and start speaking in tongues.
Only in the Acts 10 (Cornelius) account was the Holy Ghost (with tongues) poured out seemingly without much struggle, but even then the angel testified concerning Cornelius that "Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God". In other words he had a bunch of prayer put in and God was saying it's time for that prayer to do something for him.
Peter (talking about the speaking in tongues poured out upon those in the upper room) said that this was not just a GIFT (something given of love, rather than earned)...he clarified it was also a PROMISE (something you have a RIGHT to receive)...And it is for YOU, your children and AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.
(Most) People who are so adamantly saying that you need to get this are desperately wanting you to get what's available to you, NOT to try to make themselves seem personally superior..(Yes, that's why I emphasized “most” people)... and they realize that if you don’t see the difference and significance between “what you have now” and “what is actually promised to you” there’s not a likelihood that you will feel the need to seek until you receive.
As for whether tongues is actually REQUIRED… We can explore that in another post (same thread). I think this post is long enough already.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I do not see any place in scripture where believers are to ask for the gift of tongues. In Acts they were not sought by those who spoke nor by those who heard. There is no exhortation for believers to speak in tongues.
We are exhorted to love the Lord. Love is the greatest gift according to scripture.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You picked the right verse. The other one that goes with it is this one:
2Pe_1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
It's not an all or nothing event. God decides WHAT is to be spoken, the person provides when/if it will be spoken. It is an agreement between the two....in the case of both prophecy and speaking in tongues. But there are these differences:
Prophecy is spoken in a language understood by both the speaker (man) and the hearer (man).
(unknown) Tongues is spoken in a language understood by only the intended hearer (God) and not the speaker (man)...unless God provides the interpretation.
Diversities of tongues (a spiritual gift like prophecy or laying on of hands for healing) is spoken in a language understood by the hearer(s) (men) but not the speaker (man). Basically, as far as the speaker knows, he is just delivering a message in (unknown) tongues, but the syllables coming out are actually the language of the hearer. The speaker doesn't necessarily know this because, again, he doesn't understand the language coming out his mouth.
In all of these, God has to provide the content.. man has to allow it to come out his mouth. It is an agreement, not one-sided.
BTW, it was diversities of tongues that was occurring in Acts 2 AFTER the initial outpouring of unknown tongues. Please notice that the multi-lingual crowd wasn't present initially. They were drawn because of the original outpouring.
(I'm guessing many hadn't even heard of that last one before now)
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
The other one that goes with it is this one:2Pe_1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
It's not an all or nothing event. God decides WHAT is to be spoken, the person provides when/if it will be spoken. It is an agreement between the two....in the case of both prophecy and speaking in tongues. But there are these differences:
Prophecy is spoken in a language understood by both the speaker (man) and the hearer (man).
(unknown) Tongues is spoken in a language understood by only the intended hearer (God) and not the speaker (man)...unless God provides the interpretation.
Diversities of tongues (a spiritual gift like prophecy or laying on of hands for healing) is spoken in a language understood by the hearer(s) (men) but not the speaker (man). Basically, as far as the speaker knows, he is just delivering a message in (unknown) tongues, but the syllables coming out are actually the language of the hearer. The speaker doesn't necessarily know this because, again, he doesn't understand the language coming out his mouth.
In all of these, God has to provide the content.. man has to allow it to come out his mouth. It is an agreement, not one-sided.
BTW, it was diversities of tongues that was occurring in Acts 2 AFTER the initial outpouring of unknown tongues. Please notice that the multi-lingual crowd wasn't present initially. They were drawn because of the original outpouring.
(I'm guessing many hadn't even heard of that last one before now)
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Wolfwint,
In simplest terms, then they need to seek God until he gives it to them...and the church should be seeking(praying) with them until he gives it to them.
That's what the Apostles had to do. They had to tarry(stay, wait, don't leave) in Jerusalem until they got it themselves (Acts 1&2)... (Do you think they weren't praying, asking and seeking when they didn't even know exactly what to expect?)
Then when the word of God reached Samaria through Philip in Acts 8:5-14 those people were able to believe, receive the word and even got baptized yet none of them were able to receive the Holy Ghost until Peter and John came and laid hands (in prayer) on them (verse 17).
And the same need to have help was recorded in the Acts 19 account where the 'certain disciples' were able to accept the more-correct doctrine and were baptized accordingly, but it wasn't until the laying on of hands (being assisted in prayer) were they able to receive the Holy Ghost and start speaking in tongues.
Only in the Acts 10 (Cornelius) account was the Holy Ghost (with tongues) poured out seemingly without much struggle, but even then the angel testified concerning Cornelius that "Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God". In other words he had a bunch of prayer put in and God was saying it's time for that prayer to do something for him.
Peter (talking about the speaking in tongues poured out upon those in the upper room) said that this was not just a GIFT (something given of love, rather than earned)...he clarified it was also a PROMISE (something you have a RIGHT to receive)...And it is for YOU, your children and AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.
(Most) People who are so adamantly saying that you need to get this are desperately wanting you to get what's available to you, NOT to try to make themselves seem personally superior..(Yes, that's why I emphasized “most” people)... and they realize that if you don’t see the difference and significance between “what you have now” and “what is actually promised to you” there’s not a likelihood that you will feel the need to seek until you receive.
As for whether tongues is actually REQUIRED… We can explore that in another post (same thread). I think this post is long enough already.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
In simplest terms, then they need to seek God until he gives it to them...and the church should be seeking(praying) with them until he gives it to them.
That's what the Apostles had to do. They had to tarry(stay, wait, don't leave) in Jerusalem until they got it themselves (Acts 1&2)... (Do you think they weren't praying, asking and seeking when they didn't even know exactly what to expect?)
Then when the word of God reached Samaria through Philip in Acts 8:5-14 those people were able to believe, receive the word and even got baptized yet none of them were able to receive the Holy Ghost until Peter and John came and laid hands (in prayer) on them (verse 17).
And the same need to have help was recorded in the Acts 19 account where the 'certain disciples' were able to accept the more-correct doctrine and were baptized accordingly, but it wasn't until the laying on of hands (being assisted in prayer) were they able to receive the Holy Ghost and start speaking in tongues.
Only in the Acts 10 (Cornelius) account was the Holy Ghost (with tongues) poured out seemingly without much struggle, but even then the angel testified concerning Cornelius that "Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God". In other words he had a bunch of prayer put in and God was saying it's time for that prayer to do something for him.
Peter (talking about the speaking in tongues poured out upon those in the upper room) said that this was not just a GIFT (something given of love, rather than earned)...he clarified it was also a PROMISE (something you have a RIGHT to receive)...And it is for YOU, your children and AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.
(Most) People who are so adamantly saying that you need to get this are desperately wanting you to get what's available to you, NOT to try to make themselves seem personally superior..(Yes, that's why I emphasized “most” people)... and they realize that if you don’t see the difference and significance between “what you have now” and “what is actually promised to you” there’s not a likelihood that you will feel the need to seek until you receive.
As for whether tongues is actually REQUIRED… We can explore that in another post (same thread). I think this post is long enough already.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Today this speaking in tongues is Made to the biggest and most important Gift, which everybody needs to have for to have a deep relationship with the father, for to pray and to worship God. I do not believe in a 2 Class christianity. And the bible also is not teaching a 2 class christianity. In my eyes is there something wrong.
You picked the right verse. The other one that goes with it is this one:
2Pe_1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
It's not an all or nothing event. God decides WHAT is to be spoken, the person provides when/if it will be spoken. It is an agreement between the two....in the case of both prophecy and speaking in tongues. But there are these differences:
Prophecy is spoken in a language understood by both the speaker (man) and the hearer (man).
(unknown) Tongues is spoken in a language understood by only the intended hearer (God) and not the speaker (man)...unless God provides the interpretation.
Diversities of tongues (a spiritual gift like prophecy or laying on of hands for healing) is spoken in a language understood by the hearer(s) (men) but not the speaker (man). Basically, as far as the speaker knows, he is just delivering a message in (unknown) tongues, but the syllables coming out are actually the language of the hearer. The speaker doesn't necessarily know this because, again, he doesn't understand the language coming out his mouth.
In all of these, God has to provide the content.. man has to allow it to come out his mouth. It is an agreement, not one-sided.
BTW, it was diversities of tongues that was occurring in Acts 2 AFTER the initial outpouring of unknown tongues. Please notice that the multi-lingual crowd wasn't present initially. They were drawn because of the original outpouring.
(I'm guessing many hadn't even heard of that last one before now)
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
The other one that goes with it is this one:2Pe_1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
It's not an all or nothing event. God decides WHAT is to be spoken, the person provides when/if it will be spoken. It is an agreement between the two....in the case of both prophecy and speaking in tongues. But there are these differences:
Prophecy is spoken in a language understood by both the speaker (man) and the hearer (man).
(unknown) Tongues is spoken in a language understood by only the intended hearer (God) and not the speaker (man)...unless God provides the interpretation.
Diversities of tongues (a spiritual gift like prophecy or laying on of hands for healing) is spoken in a language understood by the hearer(s) (men) but not the speaker (man). Basically, as far as the speaker knows, he is just delivering a message in (unknown) tongues, but the syllables coming out are actually the language of the hearer. The speaker doesn't necessarily know this because, again, he doesn't understand the language coming out his mouth.
In all of these, God has to provide the content.. man has to allow it to come out his mouth. It is an agreement, not one-sided.
BTW, it was diversities of tongues that was occurring in Acts 2 AFTER the initial outpouring of unknown tongues. Please notice that the multi-lingual crowd wasn't present initially. They were drawn because of the original outpouring.
(I'm guessing many hadn't even heard of that last one before now)
Love in Jesus,
Kelby