Why do Christians struggle to reconcile Law and Grace?

Stunnedbygrace · May 3, 2018

beta said:

There is the free woman and the bondwoman. The free woman (and her husband) discovered that all their planning and working could not bring the child God promised to produce and bless. Intead, all that planning and working had to be sent away. God would not give the promised blessing to the promised child they tried to produce through their own working.

It's a parable for us to understand. It doesn't mean the free woman has any license to sin. It means God produces the child who will receive the blessing - the free woman does not produce that child of blessing, God does.

Ariel82 · May 3, 2018

I would highlight these two points in your OP

I agree the only thing I would add is that Jesus showed the Spiritual meaning and purpose behind the Ten commandments in His sermon of the mount.

We are not a lawless people. It is just the Laws Jesus gives go deeper than the Letter of the law and into the Spirit.

Ariel82 · May 3, 2018

Here is a summary outline

The 10 Commandments

You shall have no other gods before Me. (Matthew 6v24)
You shall not make idols.(mat 6v1-18)
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.(mat 5v33-37)
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Matt 6 v 25-34)
Honor your father and your mother. (Matt 7 v 7-11)
You shall not murder. (Matt 5 v. 21-26)
You shall not commit adultery. (Matt 5 v. 27-32)
You shall not steal. ( Matt 5 v 38-42)
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (Matt 5 v 43-48)
You shall not covet. (Matt 6 v 19-24)

Nehemiah6 · May 3, 2018

Adstar said:

We will let Theopedia explain Antinomianism (lawlessness):

Antinomianism comes from the Greek meaning lawless. In Christian theology it is a pejorative term for the teaching that Christians are under no obligation to obey the laws of ethics or morality. Few, if any, would explicitly call themselves "antinomian," hence, it is usually a charge leveled by one group against an opposing group.

Antinomianism may be viewed as the polar opposite of legalism, the notion that obedience to a code of religious law is necessary for salvation. In this sense, both antinomianism and legalism are considered errant extremes...

Antinomianism among Christians

In the case of Christianity, the controversy arises out of the doctrine of grace, the forgiveness of sins and atonement by faith in Jesus Christ. If God forgives sins, what exactly is the disadvantage in sinning, or the reward of obedience?

The first people accused of antinomianism were found, apparently, in Gnosticism; various aberrant and licentious acts were ascribed to these by their orthodox enemies; we have few independent records of their actual teachings. In the Book of Revelation 2:6-15, the New Testament speaks of Nicolaitans, who are traditionally identified with a Gnostic sect, in terms that suggest the charge of antinomianism might be appropriate....Theological charges of antinomianism typically imply that the opponent's doctrine leads to various sorts of licentiousness, and imply that the antinomian chooses his theology in order to further a career of dissipation....

Nehemiah6 · May 3, 2018

Ariel82 said:

This is correct. And later on, when He was asked about the "greatest commandment", He gave us the two greatest commandments, which are now incorporated into the Law of Christ.

Shamah · May 3, 2018

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it." [/FONT]

Nehemiah6 · May 3, 2018

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Here's a good example of Antinomianism. If it had no relevance to Christians why would THE HOLY SPIRIT give us this directive in Scripture?

The Bible says that the life of the flesh is in the blood. Because the shed blood of innocent animals was necessary for the atonement of sins in the Old Covenant, the consumption of blood was strictly forbidden. Even before that, God told Noah the very same thing.

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Gen 9:3,4)

10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.(Lev 17:10-14)

Humanity was not to consume the blood of animals because God had given shed blood spiritual significance. The blood of animals ratified the Old Covenant, and the blood of Christ ratified the New Covenant. Indeed Christ applied His blood to the Mercy Seat in Heaven. Thus it is now the throne of grace, and that blood signifies why grace is available.

After Christ shed His precious blood for our redemption, it is even more significant that Christians do not consume blood, and thus profane the meaning of Calvary. The blood of Jesus Christ, God's Son, keeps on cleansing us from all our sins. Only pagans and cannibals consumed the blood of other creatures.

Adstar · May 3, 2018

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Only to those who do not believe in the Word of God...

If one believes that all the transgressions / sins revealed in the word of are sin and thus bad they will naturally seek to avoid committing them...

So a person who believes the Word of God will never use the grace of God as a license to sin.. They will seek to conduct their lives in the spirit of agreement with what God reveals as being good..

Adstar · May 3, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

As far as ones eternal salvation status with God in concerned there is no advantage or reward in obedience to the OT Law..

As far as the quality of ones life on earth there is alot of personal and societal advantages in seeking to follow Gods Law..

And one who seeks to follow Gods law will be called great in the kingdom of Heaven.. Note the following verse from Jesus::

Matthew 5: KJV
19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Note: Jesus says in the above verse that both the Law breaker and law Doer will be in the kingdom heaven..

mcubed · May 4, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

A lot of Christians believe that there is a conflict between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ, and that is probably because the teaching on the Law among Christians has been either done improperly or inadequately.

What many Christians fail to grasp is that it was the Lord Jesus Christ who appeared to Moses as “I AM THAT I AM”. It was the pre-incarnate Word who wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone on Mount Sinai, and now writes them by the Spirit on the hearts and minds of those who have been born of the Spirit.

What many believers fail to grasp is that the Old Covenant (as spelled out in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) consisted of several groups of laws, some of which are eternal, and others of which were applicable only while the Old Covenant was in force.

The primary laws in the Old Covenant were the Ten Commandments. These are moral, spiritual, and eternal, and carried over into the New Covenant. While the Ten Commandments condemn sinners and drive them to Christ, the Law itself is spiritual and good, as we are told in Scripture.

JEREMIAH 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The Ten Commandments have been integrated into the Law of Christ, since it is Christ who summed them up and said that the two greatest commandments are to love God perfectly and to love your neighbor as you love yourself. So the Law of Love is indeed the Ten Commandments any way you look at it. The important point to note is that it is only by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that a Christian can love God and love others with AGAPE love.

But there are also other groups of laws, some of which can still be applied in the civil and criminal laws of the land, some of which are moral and ethical and can still be applied in the lives of Christians, some are sacrificial, and connected with the Levitical priesthood, and have therefore become null and void through the sacrifice of Christ, and some are ceremonial, and were therefore “types and shadows” (meats, drinks, new moons, holy days, Sabbaths).

The issue of which of the laws of Moses should apply to the Church came up early in the history of the Church. And it is the Holy Spirit who ruled thus: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; [1] That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, [2] and from blood, [3] and from things strangled, [4] and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Acts 15:28,29)

Some people mistakenly (or ignorantly) claim that since Paul said that idols are nothing, the first ruling does not apply. But a careful study of 1 Corinthians 8:1-13, says the exact opposite: Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, [stumble and sin] I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. (v. 13).

So, even while Christians are under grace, it is grace which requires that we follow the instructions given in the New Testament. Grace is not equal to Antinomianism. We are saved by grace so that we may live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Tit 2:12).

None of this make sense unless you think G-d changes. Does He? Y-shua is suppose to be G-d... Did He change? Or is G-d juut a god? Maybe my people are right there is only One G-d and worshiping Y-shua is worshiping a false G-d, or maybe Christians are right Y-shua is G-d and Christians only worship one G-d. Who is right non saved Jews, Christians and Messianics, or you?

seed_time_harvest · May 4, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

And somebody might ask,do we keep these two great commandments by will power?

Shamah · May 4, 2018

Adstar said:

"called" being called does not automatically mean they are in, it means they are called that in the kingdom. Another thing how could someone go against and teach against what He says is love and it's ok?

Also there is this:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 13:41-43, "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."[/FONT]

WIth that said we all need mercy, without it none will enter, we are offered the ability to recieve mercy by His blood.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]

Shamah · May 4, 2018

seed_time_harvest said:

He will give us a heart that desires His ways, strengthn us, guide us and yes we have to choose His path.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 32:8 “I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you with my eye upon you”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malachi 3:16-18, “Then those who reverenced [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]spoke often one to another, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]paid attention and heard them; and a Book of Remembrance was written in His presence of those who gave reverence to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and who thought upon His Name; And they will be Mine! says [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts. In that day when I make up My jewels I will spare them, as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you will return, and again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him who serves[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and him who does not serve Him.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”[/FONT]

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Shamah · May 4, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

Here's a good example of Antinomianism. If it had no relevance to Christians why would THE HOLY SPIRIT give us this directive in Scripture?

The Bible says that the life of the flesh is in the blood. Because the shed blood of innocent animals was necessary for the atonement of sins in the Old Covenant, the consumption of blood was strictly forbidden. Even before that, God told Noah the very same thing.

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Gen 9:3,4)

10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.(Lev 17:10-14)

Humanity was not to consume the blood of animals because God had given shed blood spiritual significance. The blood of animals ratified the Old Covenant, and the blood of Christ ratified the New Covenant. Indeed Christ applied His blood to the Mercy Seat in Heaven. Thus it is now the throne of grace, and that blood signifies why grace is available.

After Christ shed His precious blood for our redemption, it is even more significant that Christians do not consume blood, and thus profane the meaning of Calvary. The blood of Jesus Christ, God's Son, keeps on cleansing us from all our sins. Only pagans and cannibals consumed the blood of other creatures.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”[/FONT]

beta · May 4, 2018

FlSnookman7 said:

What shall we say then ? shall we continue in sin that grace may abound ?
God forbid ! Rom 6.
We 'awake to a new way of life which requires our literal active participation....starting with Obedience to God's Word which we 'previously transgressed 1Joh 3v4. That should be the 'first fruit of our new life. If that is not evident there has been no change and we deceive ourselves, not being DOERS of the Word. Yes it is GOD who does it all but a 'change in our life has to be seen !!!

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 4, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

It's like I have to keep repeating myself over and over. Those injunctions by the Jerusalem council were to keep gentile believers from offending their hosts, who did have an issue with eating meat with blood, so that they could participate in church meetings, which at that time were located in synagogues. No obey the Noahide laws, no attend church and no hear bible and gospel.

Therefore, it was a time-specific injunction until such time that churches became independent of the synagogues. Those injunctions have nothing to do with us now. Righteousness is not found in such things, yet it seemed good to the holy spirit at that time to instruct the believing gentiles to follow the Noahide laws so that their access to the gospel would not be jeopardized.

Jesus said that there is nothing consumed that can defile a person. Paul said to buy and eat whatever meat is sold at the marketplace without asking questions.

Now which is more important, the words of those two men, or the decree of the Jerusalem council interpreted out of context and in ignorance?

Obviously the former. A mindset not governed by discernment, knowledge, understanding and wisdom says the latter is more important and is where doctrines of legalism that quench the holy spirit come from.

eternally-gratefull · May 4, 2018

Christians do not struggle wih it, (unless satan gets in their head)

wanna be christians do. True christians have had the law fulfilled in them, and are seeking after things of the spirit and learning to love based on how god loves them, not worried about which law they shouod or should not follow.

eternally-gratefull · May 4, 2018

beta said:

no, this is not true,

saying you are free from the law is admiting you cant keep the oaw, and are in debt to Gods grace.

People who are in debt to gods grace do not want t sin, they want to please their father.

eternally-gratefull · May 4, 2018

Ariel82 said:

jesus in the sermon on the mount showed how unable the ten commands were to help us be righteous, it proved we could follow to the letter, yet still be sinners in need of grace.

God did dnot give us the ten to help us be better people, he gave them to shut our mouths and prove we are sinners. Because we can not keep the ten basic commands god gave. Let alone all his commands.

Ahwatukee · May 4, 2018

beta said:

This is one of the problems in that, people think that not being under the law means free reign to break it. Regarding this, Paul says "their condemnation is deserved."

Jesus met the righteous requirements of the law, satisfying it completely. Therefore, when the believer has faith in Christ, the fulfillment of the law is imputed to the believer.

We are saved by grace (unmerited favor) through faith and this not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works. As Paul said, anyone who is trying to be justified by obeying the law, he has wandered away from grace.

Those whose faith is in Christ and are led by the Spirit of God are not under the law, because its requirements have been met by Christ. The following is the same principle: before believers were in Christ, the wrath of God rested on them, as it currently does with all unbelievers. But because God's wrath was poured out on Jesus, God's wrath no longer rests upon those having faith in Christ. They have been reconciled to God through faith in Christ, i.e. brought back into a right relationship.

Those who are truly in Christ are led by the Spirit and they are being transformed into the image of Christ and they go from faith to faith.

Those who trust in their own efforts by trying to keep the law will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Why do Christians struggle to reconcile Law and Grace?

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