Do We Have To Keep The Law?
- Thread starter Budman
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Its a pretu sad state of affairs when a person keeps doing the same old stuff over and over again, yet never admits to what he is doing, then crys that he is being attacked.
Ps your not guilty of telling the truth, far from it.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
What does the New Testament say about it?
If we are under the Law, we are not led by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:18)
Christ is the end of the Law (Romans 10:4)
No one is justified by the works of the Law (Galatians 2:16)
It has been abolished (Ephesians 2:15)
The Law is not for the Righteous. (1 Timothy 1:8, Galatians 2:21, Romans 3:20)
We can't keep it (James 2:10)
Not even the Jews could (Galatians 6:13)
The Law and faith do not mix (Romans 3:27-28)
If we rely on observing the Law we place ourselves under a curse (Galatians 3:10-11)
The Law is a curse that Jesus redeemed us from (Galatians 3:13)
If we continue in the Law we are fools (Galatians 3:2-3)
We are to live by faith, which the Law is not based on (Galatians 3:11-12)
The Law is lifeless (Galatians 3:21)
The Law only makes us prisoners (Galatians 3:23-25)
We become alienated from Christ (Galatians 5:4)
The Law is weak and makes nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:18-19)
It can never take away sins (Hebrews 10:4)
Paul said he himself was not under the Law (1 Corinthians 9:20)
We have been released from the Law (Romans 7:6)
The Law has been canceled and nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14)
We are dead to the Law (Romans 7:4)
It is obsolete, outdated, and will disappear (Hebrews 8:13)
We have been justified apart from the Law (Romans 3:21-22, 27-28)
We are under grace, not the Law (Romans 6:14)
Clear enough?
the quaint expression 'under the law' involves depending on keeping it to have your sins forgiven
so no. God would not have sent Jesus if sacrificing morally innocent creatures forgave sin
oh it's clear enough for sure
as long as obedience to Christ is involved
now that's a stumbling block around here for sure
the problems start when people confuse obedience with law keeping
and we have the OSAS 3000 thread for evidence
I can type the OT law does not save you 1,000,000 times right here but if I say we are to be obedient to Christ, a gang of people will scream and yell about how I want to keep the law for righteousness
but I digress......
on nov. 10 of last year, you said " it does not matter what Paul has to say if our Lord , Jesus , has taught us all we need to know...... ". the thread is Paul exposes false applications of the Law . post # 32.
so there, once again a direct quote . if you believe this, that is your opinion . if you think that saying parts of Paul's teachings do not matter, then you can think that. but, please stop saying you did not say it. and accusing me of bearing false witness.
Last edited:
the quaint expression 'under the law' involves depending on keeping it to have your sins forgiven
so no. God would not have sent Jesus if sacrificing morally innocent creatures forgave sin
oh it's clear enough for sure
as long as obedience to Christ is involved
now that's a stumbling block around here for sure
the problems start when people confuse obedience with law keeping
and we have the OSAS 3000 thread for evidence
I can type the OT law does not save you 1,000,000 times right here but if I say we are to be obedient to Christ, a gang of people will scream and yell about how I want to keep the law for righteousness
but I digress......
"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” (John 6:28-29)
If obedience is required to retain salvation, then it's a work, and negates salvation as a gift.
Unhappily this is the truth......May God arm you with patience in these forums..
the quaint expression 'under the law' involves depending on keeping it to have your sins forgiven
so no. God would not have sent Jesus if sacrificing morally innocent creatures forgave sin
oh it's clear enough for sure
as long as obedience to Christ is involved
now that's a stumbling block around here for sure
the problems start when people confuse obedience with law keeping
and we have the OSAS 3000 thread for evidence
I can type the OT law does not save you 1,000,000 times right here but if I say we are to be obedient to Christ, a gang of people will scream and yell about how I want to keep the law for righteousness
but I digress......
The Epistles and Jesus warn against disobedience and not increasing the faith we are given.
Jesus teaches this sometimes by opening His Mouth in dark sayings so that some, having ears, do not hear, and having eyes, do not see.
I feaqr this is the case even moreso today..........it did not apply only to the uinbelieving Jews who claimed the be believers.
There will always be the disobedient until Christ's return it seems.
Jesus teaches this sometimes by opening His Mouth in dark sayings so that some, having ears, do not hear, and having eyes, do not see.
I feaqr this is the case even moreso today..........it did not apply only to the uinbelieving Jews who claimed the be believers.
There will always be the disobedient until Christ's return it seems.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
the quaint expression 'under the law' involves depending on keeping it to have your sins forgiven
so no. God would not have sent Jesus if sacrificing morally innocent creatures forgave sin
oh it's clear enough for sure
as long as obedience to Christ is involved
now that's a stumbling block around here for sure
the problems start when people confuse obedience with law keeping
and we have the OSAS 3000 thread for evidence
I can type the OT law does not save you 1,000,000 times right here but if I say we are to be obedient to Christ, a gang of people will scream and yell about how I want to keep the law for righteousness
but I digress......
see here is part of the issue,
if you say we are to be obedient to christ, NO ONE would say a word
but if you say we have to follow the law. Thats a different story,
thats the issue, not obedience.
If people can not understand the argument, it will continue to be this way
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
how many times do you have to be exposed before you will admit what people are saying is true?
You hurt yourself your testimony and whatever church you belong to by acting the way you do and failing to repent when shown your sins, then posting post after post of how we are supposed to follow the law
when your proven to be a law breaker, yet preach obey law or else. Your sort of co tradicting yourself, that was the pharisees problem, they would teach law law law, yet When jesus exposed them as law breakers they got mad, blame shifted, and eventually killed him.
Now i do not think you have the power to kill people here, but you have the other two things they did mastered!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
N
NoNameMcgee
Guest
typical strawman that ignores Gods work
just like those who say "ohhhh you're saying grace means Christians can sin all they want and there is no punishment!"
lol which is actually a double strawman
no one says a born again believer with a quickened spirit and new heart WANTS to sin.... the lusts of the flesh may desire forms of pleasure but the new man HATES sin.... he wants to be delivered from these temptations
not flock to them
also
God chastens His children
_______________
Galatians 2:21 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
New Living Translation
I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.
English Standard Version
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Berean Study Bible
I do not set aside the grace of God. For if righteousness comes through the Law, Christ died for nothing."
Berean Literal Bible
I do not set aside the grace of God. For if righteousness is through the Law, then Christ died for naught."
New American Standard Bible
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
King James Bible
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Christian Standard Bible
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.
Contemporary English Version
I don't turn my back on God's gift of undeserved grace. If we can be acceptable to God by obeying the Law, it was useless for Christ to die.
___________
Galatians 5:4 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
New Living Translation
For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace.
English Standard Version
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Berean Study Bible
You who are trying to be justified by the Law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Berean Literal Bible
Whoever are being justified in the Law, you are severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
New American Standard Bible
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
King James Bible
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Christian Standard Bible
You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yep. They are right there in everyones bibles.
I think the judaizers even have them in the complete jewish bible, but they are probably twisted a little.
Galatians 2:19
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
All these scriptures are crystal clear for those who have come to Christ and have had the vail removed from their hearts and minds.
But those who have been led away with the error of the wicked don't seem to be able to grasp this simplicity. They are at a loss as to how they can grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. They make Grace out to be something bad or something to be feared by calling it "hyper" grace.
It really just shows the striving between the flesh and the spirit.
All these scriptures are crystal clear for those who have come to Christ and have had the vail removed from their hearts and minds.
But those who have been led away with the error of the wicked don't seem to be able to grasp this simplicity. They are at a loss as to how they can grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. They make Grace out to be something bad or something to be feared by calling it "hyper" grace.
It really just shows the striving between the flesh and the spirit.
Teaching against obeying the commandments of God is teaching against the Word in the letters of JOhn, the Gos0el of Christ from His own lips, and from His appearance to JOhn in Revelation.
There is no straw there, just the Holy Spirit conveying the truth.
If Jesus and John do not teache that we must obey the commandments then, you should say something, but they do, so youcannot, not in a modicum of truth.
There is no straw there, just the Holy Spirit conveying the truth.
If Jesus and John do not teache that we must obey the commandments then, you should say something, but they do, so youcannot, not in a modicum of truth.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No one is teaching against obeying.
so again who are you preaching to? And why do you still refuse to admit Gb9 was right about what you said?
N
NoNameMcgee
Guest
youre definitely not speaking anything of truth here...
faaaar from being in the spirit
you are smack dab in the middle of making false arguments against beliefs no one holds
who has said DO NOT TRY AND KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
no one
those who know the truth have said
HOW WELL YOU PERFORM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION
because we are saved by grace through faith
and not of works
You are one of those who confuses the issue regarding salvation by grace through faith vs. the law.
Anyone trusting in their own efforts as a requirement for salvation, are not trusting in Christ's efforts.
We have both the letters to the Galatians and Romans that go over salvation by grace through faith vs. the works of the law, and you and others still don't understand. We are not saved by attempting to keep the ten commandments, or by abstaining from certain foods or by keeping the Sabbath on a certain day as a requirement for salvation or by any other works. We are saved by trusting in what Christ accomplished on our behalf.
There will be a whole slew of people expecting to enter into the kingdom of God and won't be able to and that because along side of Christ's sacrifice, they will have their own list of requirements, which is the same as saying that the Lord's sacrifice was insufficient, because you have to add to make it complete.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Notice that these people will make an appeal for entrance based on their ministerial activities, yet Christ will reject them on the basis of their lawlessness-Matthew 7:23.
That describes the church pretty well. Lot's of church activity--leading Bible studies, attending church, proclaiming the grace of Christ, giving money to the church, getting involved in church programs, etc--but no obedience to the commands of Christ. They expect their sacrifice of service is going to somehow make up for their lack of obedience. Not going to happen. Saving faith is signified by obedience to God's commands, not by the abundance of your service in the church.
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’-Matthew 7:23
The person who is sure they are saved by grace apart from works but who is living in lawlessness does not have the salvation by grace through faith apart from works he thinks he has and will be rejected by Christ when he returns. And no amount of service in the church or lip service to the glories of God's grace is going to change that.
So "believing in the one He sent" is a requirement for Salvation then. This is an import Biblical fact. We must believe in the Word which became Flesh. How do we "believe" in someone? By creating an image of what we think they look like and looking at it? Maybe by calling Him Lord, Lord?
No, given His Words and the Examples He said were written for our admonition, I would say we "believe" in Him "IF" we do what He says.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
and again:
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Abraham believed in Him. He was given instructions by the Word which became Flesh and Abraham didn't let his own mind talk him out of "DOING" what was instructed, even to the point of giving up his own son. This is why Abraham was blessed as it is written.
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
This is the same God that gave Abraham this same instruction to test him. This is the same God which created "ALL THINGS".
When asked what to do to enter eternal life, Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, the giver of this gift, said to "Keep the Commandments".
I believe in Him.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Believers are not under the condemnation of the law, nor under the power of the law to keep them bound to sin. That is what it means to not be under the law.
Believers uphold the law through their faith in Christ. If they don't, ultimately, they are showing themselves to not be believers at all. They will be lost when Jesus returns.
Saving faith is signified by obedience to God's commands.
Believers uphold the law through their faith in Christ. If they don't, ultimately, they are showing themselves to not be believers at all. They will be lost when Jesus returns.
Saving faith is signified by obedience to God's commands.