On Death and Dying -- Spurgeon Style

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shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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#41
Quite simple! We trust God because of who he is! It’s all about him, not your perception of signs and wonders.
When did I mention anything about signs and wonders?

You don’t know God very well, do you? You haven’t read the Bible very much, have you?
Baseless accusations.

Try reading the Psalms 5 times over. You will see the overwhelming picture of people who trust God because if who he is, not because of temporal circumstances!
I agree, we are to trust God for who He is.

He is our Father, we are His children. He loves us. He wants us to trust Him.

How can you trust Him if you think He's ultimately the cause of all the pain and suffering we experience on this earth?
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
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#42
​.


Originally Posted by Angela53510


You don’t know God very well, do you? You haven’t read the Bible very much, have you?




Angela, do you know this person in real life?

I'm guessing not.

Why are you making such inferences?

Just because someone disagrees with your interpretation of a matter in Scripture does not mean that they don't 'know God very well' or 'haven't read the Bible very much'.

I find myself ignoring the rest of what you write because of how you treat others here.

You could have all the Biblical knowledge in the world, yet if you don't walk in love, well . . .

You didn't used to be that way.

-JGIG
 
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Depleted

Guest
#43
When did I mention anything about signs and wonders?


Baseless accusations.


I agree, we are to trust God for who He is.

He is our Father, we are His children. He loves us. He wants us to trust Him.

How can you trust Him if you think He's ultimately the cause of all the pain and suffering we experience on this earth?
The Circle Game is cute when a child is full of wonder. Sad when still played as an adult. Disturbing as a senior citizen.

[video=youtube;V9VoLCO-d6U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9VoLCO-d6U[/video]
 
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Depleted

Guest
#44
​.


Originally Posted by Angela53510


You don’t know God very well, do you? You haven’t read the Bible very much, have you?




Angela, do you know this person in real life?

I'm guessing not.

Why are you making such inferences?

Just because someone disagrees with your interpretation of a matter in Scripture does not mean that they don't 'know God very well' or 'haven't read the Bible very much'.

I find myself ignoring the rest of what you write because of how you treat others here.

You could have all the Biblical knowledge in the world, yet if you don't walk in love, well . . .

You didn't used to be that way.

-JGIG
You don't think this is real life? I really do pay enough attention to people on here to get to know them. I gather you don't? (I don't know you that well, but because you either left for a while or hang out on other forums. We just don't run into each other that often.)

And since you don't, why blame that on others? And then speak of them lacking love?
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
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#45
The Circle Game is cute when a child is full of wonder. Sad when still played as an adult. Disturbing as a senior citizen.
Great song. Relevance?

You and Angela don’t answer any questions. All you do is accuse me of not knowing God and not reading the Bible.

Oh well....
 
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Depleted

Guest
#46
Great song. Relevance?

You and Angela don’t answer any questions. All you do is accuse me of not knowing God and not reading the Bible.

Oh well....
No, you ask childish questions that any real Christian knows the answers to, and use that as your offense, rather than trusting God.

We, simply, don't play your game.

Round 20 of same game over now? Because you will do this over and over again, and pretend it means something over and over again, to defend your personally created god.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
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#47
No, you ask childish questions that any real Christian knows the answers to, and use that as your offense, rather than trusting God.

We, simply, don't play your game.

Round 20 of same game over now? Because you will do this over and over again, and pretend it means something over and over again, to defend your personally created god.
Pretty much all you know about me is that I am not a Calvinist.

And since you are, it bothers you, and your responses to me consist mostly of insults and put-downs. You have yet to try and answer any of the questions I’ve asked, I just get accused of not knowing God and not reading the Bible. And now, apparently I’m childish, not a real Christian, and I have a personally created god.

Sorry for all your problems.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#48
I have two kinds of days -- good days and bad days. The labels are directly related to how much of a pain the day is. Not just physical pain, but what is going on in my life.

Good day = Get to do what I want to do.

Bad Day = Have to do what is needed, God taking me where I don't want to go, and/or red lights every block/no parking spot/parked in the middle of a puddle and got my feet wet, sometimes from slush/flood in basement/leaky roof kinds of days/favorite clothes must be thrown out.

And, darn if Spurgeon isn't right in what he says here. I do tend to wrap up bad days with "want to be with the Lord," which rarely means I actually want to be with him.

Just wondering if this doesn't hit home for others too.


“I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world.”
John 17:15

It is a sweet and blessed event which will occur to all believers in God's own time—the going home to be with Jesus. In a few more years the Lord's soldiers, who are now fighting "the good fight of faith" will have done with conflict, and have entered into the joy of their Lord. But although Christ prays that His people may eventually be with Him where He is, He does not ask that they may be taken at once away from this world to heaven. He wishes them to stay here. Yet how frequently does the wearied pilgrim put up the prayer, "O that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away and be at rest"; but Christ does not pray like that, He leaves us in His Father's hands, until, like shocks of corn fully ripe, we shall each be gathered into our Master's garner. Jesus does not plead for our instant removal by death, for to abide in the flesh is needful for others if not profitable for ourselves. He asks that we may be kept from evil, but He never asks for us to be admitted to the inheritance in glory till we are of full age. Christians often want to die when they have any trouble. Ask them why, and they tell you, "Because we would be with the Lord." We fear it is not so much because they are longing to be with the Lord, as because they desire to get rid of their troubles; else they would feel the same wish to die at other times when not under the pressure of trial. They want to go home, not so much for the Saviour's company, as to be at rest. Now it is quite right to desire to depart if we can do it in the same spirit that Paul did, because to be with Christ is far better, but the wish to escape from trouble is a selfish one. Rather let your care and wish be to glorify God by your life here as long as He pleases, even though it be in the midst of toil, and conflict, and suffering, and leave Him to say when "it is enough."


Rather amazing how self-centered I/we can be, even when it comes to wanting to be with the Lord.
lovely post lynn...

i can relate to your feelings

and agree with your conclusion it can be selfish/lazy if our desire to depart from this fallen world is because of trials we face instead of longing to be with our Father
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#49
If God is in control of everything, then how can it be an actual war?

Is God in control of you? To what extent? Do you ALWAYS do what He wants you to do? (I know I don't..)

If you don't, then in what way is God in control of everything?

Who is the god of this age? (2 Cor 4:4) What does it mean to be the god of this age?

2 Tim 2:
26) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Whose will?

Do you believe people are taken captive by the devil because it's God's will? I don't.

Acts 10:
38) How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

God was with Jesus, enabling Jesus to heal people that were oppressed by the devil. If you believe God is in control of everything, do you believe it is God's will for the devil to oppress people? So Christ was healing the very same people that God had given permission to the devil to oppress? How can it be God's will for the devil to oppress people and at the same time be God's will for Christ to heal those very same people?

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Why are we encouraged to stand against the wiles of the devil if God is the one orchestrating everything, including putting His stamp of approval on the actions of the enemy?

It would be great if you could try to answer some of these questions rather than reiterating your belief that God is in control of everything.
Your questions won't be answered . . . because then people will have to admit that God isn't in control of EVERYTHING. That there really is good and evil . . . there really is a spiritual battle going on, which will culminate one day and Satan will get his due.

God's word is the standard for truth - NOT people's opinions. Just as Satan tricked Eve in the garden of Eden - he uses the same tactics today. Jesus answered Satan's temptations with "It is written" . . . so "it is written" - God is love and in him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5) and "the whole world lies in wickedness" (1 John 5:19) or as the ESV puts it "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." - or the EXB (Expanded Bible) "We know that we belong to God [or are children of God; are of God] but the Evil One controls the whole world." So to attribute wickedness and darkness to God is only people's opinions and NOT God's word.

Jesus Christ came and made known the Father through his actions - I've never seen it recorded that his Father caused people to be sick, mentally deranged, etc. I saw love and healing in his actions. Jesus Christ revealed the true nature of the Father and the true nature of the devil - It is the devil who steals, kills and destroys - NOT God, NOT for any purpose.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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#50
Your questions won't be answered . . . because then people will have to admit that God isn't in control of EVERYTHING. That there really is good and evil . . . there really is a spiritual battle going on, which will culminate one day and Satan will get his due.

God's word is the standard for truth - NOT people's opinions. Just as Satan tricked Eve in the garden of Eden - he uses the same tactics today. Jesus answered Satan's temptations with "It is written" . . . so "it is written" - God is love and in him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5) and "the whole world lies in wickedness" (1 John 5:19) or as the ESV puts it "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." - or the EXB (Expanded Bible) "We know that we belong to God [or are children of God; are of God] but the Evil One controls the whole world." So to attribute wickedness and darkness to God is only people's opinions and NOT God's word.

Jesus Christ came and made known the Father through his actions - I've never seen it recorded that his Father caused people to be sick, mentally deranged, etc. I saw love and healing in his actions. Jesus Christ revealed the true nature of the Father and the true nature of the devil - It is the devil who steals, kills and destroys - NOT God, NOT for any purpose.
God never made anyone sick? Are you sure?
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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#51
Your questions won't be answered . . . because then people will have to admit that God isn't in control of EVERYTHING. That there really is good and evil . . . there really is a spiritual battle going on, which will culminate one day and Satan will get his due.

God's word is the standard for truth - NOT people's opinions. Just as Satan tricked Eve in the garden of Eden - he uses the same tactics today. Jesus answered Satan's temptations with "It is written" . . . so "it is written" - God is love and in him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5) and "the whole world lies in wickedness" (1 John 5:19) or as the ESV puts it "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." - or the EXB (Expanded Bible) "We know that we belong to God [or are children of God; are of God] but the Evil One controls the whole world." So to attribute wickedness and darkness to God is only people's opinions and NOT God's word.

Jesus Christ came and made known the Father through his actions - I've never seen it recorded that his Father caused people to be sick, mentally deranged, etc. I saw love and healing in his actions. Jesus Christ revealed the true nature of the Father and the true nature of the devil - It is the devil who steals, kills and destroys - NOT God, NOT for any purpose.
Please expound on what you mean when you wrote “because then people will have to admit that God isn’t in control of EVERYTHING.”

If He isn’t in control of everything, then He is not omnipotent.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#53
God never made anyone sick? Are you sure?
Maybe you can refresh my memory? I do know that sickness was not in Eden, God's original paradise . . . sickness is the result of Adam's transgression - please note, that I am not saying that people who are sick are sinful . . . BUT that sickness is the result of living in a fallen world.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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#54
Look at David’s & Bathsheba’s baby. I am agreeing with you, btw.
Maybe you can refresh my memory? I do know that sickness was not in Eden, God's original paradise . . . sickness is the result of Adam's transgression - please note, that I am not saying that people who are sick are sinful . . . BUT that sickness is the result of living in a fallen world.
I think we're all mostly in agreement here, Peaceful. Sovereign mentioned the baby of King David and Bathsheba, while I was thinking of Miriam, the sister of Moses.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#55
I think we're all mostly in agreement here, Peaceful. Sovereign mentioned the baby of King David and Bathsheba, while I was thinking of Miriam, the sister of Moses.
When we sin we deserve the consequences . . . the consequence of David's sin was the death of his child. The consequence of Miriam speaking against Moses was her turning leprous. Did God CAUSE the consequence?
If God is in control of everything then He influenced David to take Bathsheba then punished him for doing so by killing his child. . . . He influenced Miriam to speak against Moses and then punished her by making her leprous. Would I make my child do something disobedient so I could punish him?​

Maybe the figure of speech metonymy should be studied . . it involves the exchange of nouns or verbs, where one noun or verb is put for another related noun or verb. [meta - indicating change and onoma - a name (or in grammar, a noun)]. This figure is involved in understanding many verses that seem to make God the DIRECT and ACTIVE cause of negative circumstances.

To bring about a righteous end will God use unrighteous means . . . IOW - will He do evil so that good may come? God cannot and will not do anything contrary to His own nature . . . God is Holy, righteous, faithful, just, etc.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#56
Please expound on what you mean when you wrote “because then people will have to admit that God isn’t in control of EVERYTHING.”

If He isn’t in control of everything, then He is not omnipotent.
God is in control when a drunk gets behind the wheel of a car and kills someone in an accident? God is in control by causing cancer and all manner of illnesses? God is in control of a world that is crumbling? Then why does he tell us if we turn from our evil ways, he will heal the land? - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. God is the reason for hurting people, starving people, damaged people?


Is 1 John 5:19 TRUTH? Is 2 Cor. 4:4 TRUTH? Both verses clearly say that the devil, our adversary, is in control of the world.
 
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Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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#57
God is in control when a drunk gets behind the wheel of a car and kills someone in an accident? God is in control by causing cancer and all manner of illnesses? God is in control of a world that is crumbling? Then why does he tell us if we turn from our evil ways, he will heal the land? - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. God is the reason for hurting people, starving people, damaged people?
So, you believe God isn't omnipotent?
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
5,047
2,099
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#58
God is in control when a drunk gets behind the wheel of a car and kills someone in an accident? God is in control by causing cancer and all manner of illnesses? God is in control of a world that is crumbling? Then why does he tell us if we turn from our evil ways, he will heal the land? - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. God is the reason for hurting people, starving people, damaged people?
So, you believe God isn't omnipotent?
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#59
So, you believe God isn't omnipotent?
I believe God is a JUST God. Sin and death came into the world as the result of Adam's choice . . . his transgression also lost mankind the dominion and authority he once had over "the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." That dominion and authority over the earth was transferred to Satan when Adam sinned - The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to." (Luke 4) This is why "the whole world is under the control of the evil one." . . . and it is clearly demonstrated daily in the world around us. Satan has this control until Jesus comes back and "breaks the power of him who holds the power of death -- that is the devil" . . . "destroying the last enemy, death" . . . These things will come to pass because of God's omnipotence.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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#60
God is in control when a drunk gets behind the wheel of a car and kills someone in an accident? God is in control by causing cancer and all manner of illnesses? God is in control of a world that is crumbling? Then why does he tell us if we turn from our evil ways, he will heal the land? - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. God is the reason for hurting people, starving people, damaged people?


Is 1 John 5:19 TRUTH? Is 2 Cor. 4:4 TRUTH? Both verses clearly say that the devil, our adversary, is in control of the world.
And yet, God is in control. You not wanting an omnipotent God is quite telling...and sad. :(
 
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