Loss of salvation.

[NoNameMcgee]

So once God has given us a new heart, you believe He takes away our freedom of choice, takes away our will, and forces us to continue to believe in Him no matter what! To me that does not sound like a loving Father.

I much prefer to believe in a Father who gives a new heart to me as a gift. He does not force me to keep it, but woos and loves me and showers His grace and kindness upon me and gives me all I need to ongoing believe and abide in Him. Praise the Lord - what a wonderful Saviour!

i only prefer to know my Father as He is.....


if He wishes to keep His children safe
im happy with that


if He so chose to cast them out even though He said He wouldnt

of if He so chose to not raise them up on the last day like He promised

or if He so chose to not give them a spirit that testified that we are His children like He said He would


or if He so chose to not chasen His beloved children to correct them as He promised


i would still accept Him as He is

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL! Did I say it is my will that keeps me saved?

by your line of reasoning, then you must believe it is your will that gets you saved?!

Well you do say it is your will to have to stay and if it was your will to leave you could.

Thats your line of reasoning not his.

 

[Chester]

You think Noah is stronger than God, that explains everything.

Personally I think noah understood his situation and never would have wanted to leave, Like all people who have repented and come to christ have done, or they never would have repented to begin with (true faith not washy washy false faith) which is why they never would want to leave either. (which explains why you think salvation can be lost by wanting to return to the world where the world is being flooded and no one will survive) But even if they could they are not stronger than God.

Noah stronger than God????????? Not sure how you came to that conclusion - except that you attached your beliefs to my line of reasoning and came up with an erroneous conclusion which we all know is false.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

LOL! Did I say it is my will that keeps me saved?

by your line of reasoning, then you must believe it is your will that gets you saved?!

no

He calls

He provided the means to be saved

He keeps His children saved


i give Him all the glory

 

[BillG]

So once God has given us a new heart, you believe He takes away our freedom of choice, takes away our will, and forces us to continue to believe in Him no matter what! To me that does not sound like a loving Father.

I much prefer to believe in a Father who gives a new heart to me as a gift. He does not force me to keep it, but woos and loves me and showers His grace and kindness upon me and gives me all I need to ongoing believe and abide in Him. Praise the Lord - what a wonderful Saviour!

To me neither does a loving Father bring someone into saving faith knowing that at some point in the future they are going to reject it.

I think we would agree that he knows who is the lambs book of life before it is opened. Let me know if you don't think so.

So it doesn't make sense for him to call people who are not in it.
If that is the case then it is very cruel indeed.

I totally agree with your last paragraph.
If we are honest we get it wrong, go MIA, but he woos and loves, he even disciplines us.

But why woo, show love and discipline someone that you ultimately know you are going to banish to hell for eternity.

I'm not talking about the separation of the sheep and goats. The goats never knew him. Jesus said that.
So they have no faith, genuine saving faith to start with.
Same applies for those who claimed great works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Noah stronger than God????????? Not sure how you came to that conclusion - except that you attached your beliefs to my line of reasoning and came up with an erroneous conclusion which we all know is false.

Funny how you did not answer anything else I posted but went here.

1. God sealed Noah in
2. You said Noah could break that seal and get out
3. Hence Noah is stronger than God.

It is just basic reasoning. Now do you have an answer to the rest of my post? or was it to much for you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To me neither does a loving Father bring someone into saving faith knowing that at some point in the future they are going to reject it.

I think we would agree that he knows who is the lambs book of life before it is opened. Let me know if you don't think so.

So it doesn't make sense for him to call people who are not in it.
If that is the case then it is very cruel indeed.

I totally agree with your last paragraph.
If we are honest we get it wrong, go MIA, but he woos and loves, he even disciplines us.

But why woo, show love and discipline someone that you ultimately know you are going to banish to hell for eternity.

I'm not talking about the separation of the sheep and goats. The goats never knew him. Jesus said that.
So they have no faith, genuine saving faith to start with.
Same applies for those who claimed great works.

amen,

not only do they call his soverignty into question, But his omnipotence and his omniscience.

 

[crossnote]

I still wonder, "Sirs, what must I do to LOSE my salvation?" LOL

 

[stonesoffire]

Our salvation of the spiritual new birth is forever sealed in heaven by His blood poured out on the mercy seat before Father and the voice of His blood is mercy to all. Especially to us who believe and receive.

This rebirth is complete in our Spirit. It's His revealed truth in His written Word by His Spirit that causes growth to pierce our soul. So salvation is progressive then in our soul and our body.

The only way i see loss through the scriptures is to know something in understanding, yet not experienced in our life, and we forget what we saw and heard. I believe this is what James was talking about with looking into the mirror and seeing...then turning away and forgetting what we saw.

Its not a permanent loss though for salvation is the job of Holy Spirit, not of us. He continues to work in us.

He has more patience with man than we do with one another.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

chester

im sorry if how i said things were lacking tact

i do really like you....


scripture aside

just talking


do you believe anything could remove your faith in Christ?


alien invasion?

"science" saying they found proof we come from monkeys?

buddah coming down from the skies bringing pillars of fire with him?


or the entire world falling into unbelief killing anyone who professes the name of Christ?



i know none of these would even put a dent in my faith


i know it is impossible for me to believe anything else i could not stop believing even if i wanted to....

this is a result of Him working in me

not my own hard headedness



i feel you are the same....

even if we disagree on some important things


i hope you dont think i am accusing you or condemning you....

i may think youre in error

but a brother in error is still a brother


sorry again if i came off as rude it wasnt my intention

 

[notuptome]

Are you saying that if Noah had wanted to get out of the ark, there would have been no way he could have gotten out?

Did God make him a prisoner on the ark?

(Personally, I think if Noah had wanted to get out of the ark, I think he would have gotten out!)

Certainly Noah had no reason to want to get out of the ark since it would have meant his death. You need to look closely at the account given in the word of God and see that God sealed Noah inside the ark. We too are sealed by the Holy Spirit into the covenant with God through Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nehemiah6]

I still wonder, "Sirs, what must I do to LOSE my salvation?" LOL

All this talk about losing salvation shows that there are many professing Christians who really have not grasped (1) who Christ is, (2) what He has done to purchase our redemption, (3) what He is doing to work in us and through us, (4) and what God and Christ have planned for the saints for all eternity.

In other words, too many Christians do not have a COMPREHENSIVE understanding of salvation, beginning with the fact that God Himself (Christ) is our salvation. Salvation is a Person who comes to reside within the believer for eternity.

 

[BillG]

Certainly Noah had no reason to want to get out of the ark since it would have meant his death. You need to look closely at the account given in the word of God and see that God sealed Noah inside the ark. We too are sealed by the Holy Spirit into the covenant with God through Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I didn't respond to the post but I wanted to.

My response would have been along the lines of

Why did Noah build the ark?
Why did Noah usher the animals in?
Why did Noah go into the ark and take his family with him?

To me it was faith.

He heard, believed and did.

He knew that he would be saved from death.

That being the case why would he jump ship?
If he did then certain death.
Yet in the ark he was safe.
Who shut the door on the ark?
Not Noah but God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I didn't respond to the post but I wanted to.

My response would have been along the lines of

Why did Noah build the ark?
Why did Noah usher the animals in?
Why did Noah go into the ark and take his family with him?

To me it was faith.

He heard, believed and did.

He knew that he would be saved from death.

That being the case why would he jump ship?
If he did then certain death.
Yet in the ark he was safe.
Who shut the door on the ark?
Not Noah but God.

Noah represents all people who come to the point of faith, Those who KNOW that outside that ark (Christ) there is death. Thats why they would never jump ship. they KNOW jumping ship will be certain death.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I didn't respond to the post but I wanted to.

My response would have been along the lines of

Why did Noah build the ark?
Why did Noah usher the animals in?
Why did Noah go into the ark and take his family with him?

To me it was faith.

He heard, believed and did.

He knew that he would be saved from death.

That being the case why would he jump ship?
If he did then certain death.
Yet in the ark he was safe.
Who shut the door on the ark?
Not Noah but God.

What God opens no man can shut , and what God shuts no man can open...xox...

 

[BillG]

Noah represents all people who come to the point of faith, Those who KNOW that outside that ark (Christ) there is death. Thats why they would never jump ship. they KNOW jumping ship will be certain death.

Not sure this picture will show. If not then maybe someone can post it for me.

The following is relevant though.

Who did not get on the ark?

But also

Revelation 19:1
Chapter 19
Heaven Exults over Babylon
1 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God!

 

[crossnote]

All this talk about losing salvation shows that there are many professing Christians who really have not grasped (1) who Christ is, (2) what He has done to purchase our redemption, (3) what He is doing to work in us and through us, (4) and what God and Christ have planned for the saints for all eternity.

In other words, too many Christians do not have a COMPREHENSIVE understanding of salvation, beginning with the fact that God Himself (Christ) is our salvation. Salvation is a Person who comes to reside within the believer for eternity.

Exactly, as well as a covenant (an unconditional one in this case) keeping God who keeps His Word.

 

[crossnote]

I didn't respond to the post but I wanted to.

My response would have been along the lines of

Why did Noah build the ark?
Why did Noah usher the animals in?
Why did Noah go into the ark and take his family with him?

To me it was faith.

He heard, believed and did.

He knew that he would be saved from death.

That being the case why would he jump ship?
If he did then certain death.
Yet in the ark he was safe.
Who shut the door on the ark?
Not Noah but God.

God also sealed the ark, so Noah could not jump. LOL

 

[BillG]

God also sealed the ark, so Noah could not jump. LOL

Agreeing or disagreeing?

 

[Chester]

chester

im sorry if how i said things were lacking tact

i do really like you....


scripture aside

just talking


do you believe anything could remove your faith in Christ?


alien invasion?

"science" saying they found proof we come from monkeys?

buddah coming down from the skies bringing pillars of fire with him?


or the entire world falling into unbelief killing anyone who professes the name of Christ?



i know none of these would even put a dent in my faith


i know it is impossible for me to believe anything else i could not stop believing even if i wanted to....

this is a result of Him working in me

not my own hard headedness



i feel you are the same....

even if we disagree on some important things


i hope you dont think i am accusing you or condemning you....

i may think youre in error

but a brother in error is still a brother


sorry again if i came off as rude it wasnt my intention

Sir, I did not feel you came across as rude or arrogant or any such thing - I have no problem with your approach. And though I don't agree with you on everything, I take you as a wonderful brother in Christ.

I am in agreement with you that I see nothing as being able to shake my confidence or my faith in Christ. Where I may differ with you is I believe (in fact, I very well know) that within me lies the moral capability to completely throw out Christ and become apostate. To say that is not possible is to completely deny and be blind to my moral capability.

That is why this discussion about Noah being sealed by God into the ark is almost funny to me. We all very well know that Noah had the physical capability to open up the top of the ark and jump out into the water and drown. He let a dove out you know! It would have been totally stupid to do that! (of course!) But just because it would have been totally stupid, does not mean it is not possible!